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Rumours and Stuff

hybrideel

Bench
Messages
4,102
Maybe I haven't watched many post game press conferences from Melbourne, but I don't recall hearing Bellamy whinge much at all about refs etc. Usually if they lose he is giving it to his players for not being good enough, much like BA usually does

The only time he does fire up is when some reporter talks about a tackling technique that his players are blamed for
 

King-Gutho94

Coach
Messages
16,139
Maybe I haven't watched many post game press conferences from Melbourne, but I don't recall hearing Bellamy whinge much at all about refs etc. Usually if they lose he is giving it to his players for not being good enough, much like BA usually does

The only time he does fire up is when some reporter talks about a tackling technique that his players are blamed for
He is cunning mate i recall when Parra beat Melbourne up in Brisbane during covid to end there 19 match streak.

He gave no credit to parramatta & all he said with his snarling voice was oh we didn't get many 50/50s which was BS.

As Papenhuzen and Munster both milked penalties that night for the softest contact you ever see.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,911
I’m sure Ram will take this all on board and not just continue with his own vitriolic beliefs of his made up fantasies about being the world’s smartest man.

Before you all jump down my throat, this is what I was talking about.


Around the 3 min mark.

But like I said,' if memory serves me correctly'. I got it almost right.

But the point really is, as you can see from the video, we massively fluked it and as history shows us since Semi we have only produced one other quality outside back in 10 years. But can you really say we developed him since he was 19 and we just threw him a ball and he was what we all see. We just had to teach him the rules and the art of positional play in both attack and defense. But by any fair measure for a club like ours that big notes itself and spends so much time and money on development that is pathetic. We should be embarrassed about that and turning the place upside down to work out what has gone wrong and make those changes.

The problem though is that I and many on here have said the same thing many times before over the years, but nothing ever really changes even when they make changes. We obviously just don't hire the right people or if we do they just don't stick around long enough to affect long lasting real change. Now we have N. Brown, so we wait and see, but sorry if the non apologists amongst us are a little gun shy after so many years of almost nothing but false expectations.

Results is the only barometer I go by. All the talk and excuses just go in the bin with me. Until we are regularly producing juniors that are genuine NRL standard or higher, we will never really be a club that can buy a premiership, so a premiership will elude us.
 
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TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,911
I'm no expert, but through a combination of speaking to the right people, and trying to think critically, I can say this much:

We are still paying for the mistakes we made when we signed Stuart, and Hagan, to coach this club.

Under their watch, opposition clubs tore our junior systems to shreds, and nothing was done to address this, because the head coaches at the time were confident they could sign enough talent to counteract the bleeding.

They were naive, and wrong - and in Stuart's case, he never truly, really bought in at Parramatta, and so he never cared what happened, whichever way it went.

Stable club administration has finally been brought in, and huge issues in our junior pathways have been identified - but from the people I've spoken to (a mate of mine who is a player agent, who mostly represents younger players, as well as a former Eels NSW Cup player), the damage that Hagan began, and Stuart/Kearney continued with their ineptitude and/wilful indifference, was far greater in scope than first thought, and measures have been put in place to rectify this (such as hiring Nathan Brown to do a review of our pathways systems).

Fortunately for the healthy administration of the club, but unfortunately for us fans, this process takes time.

Mate, Gould turned the Panthers, who were basically ready for administration when he came in and their juniors systems were a car wreck around and winning playing 3 grand finals and winning 2 so far in less then what 6-7 years? But leading up to that they were producing real talent almost from within the first couple of years. I doesn't take that long. Just like Semi, talent is talent. You just need the right people in charge that can identify and then bring it along.

Where are the real gems in our nursery? You don't need to create, speed, power, stepping agility or instinct? They are there or they aren't. I'm not talking about gifted play makers here. They do need intense development. What I'm talking about is raw athletic ability like most NRL players have. We then just need to build on it with endurance and footy smarts. That happens in the lower grades. But their ability is already evident.

So what are you trying to say? We have all these great kids coming through that we have been taking on board but then because it takes years to set things right, we have been somehow butchering them and their natural talents? I don't buy it. I think we have been failing mostly on identification and some on retention. Otherwise if we have been blessed with a good handful or two of quality kids and all we have managed to do is stuff them up because of our structures still being sh*t over the last 10 years that is outrages and ridiculous and I call bullsh*t.

Like I said, it only takes a year or so to set up the systems you want to build and play under. They are just managerial decisions ffs. No one has to go out and build the Harbour Bridge. Make the right decisions in the office, then go out and hire(no one does it all on their own) the right people for each task, then build on that and tweak and adjust where necessary and watch with in a couple of year the kids developing and within 3-4 years max, you should start seeing the fruits of your labour sprout and ripen if you got it right.

But obviously we are still trying to get it right and offering a million and one excuses as to why it hasn't happened yet. While Gould in the space of what 12-18 months with almost no juniors in his catchment area has started to add and develop in his lower grades players that he can call on to the point that he has excess outside backs and it is just the beginning.

If you get it right it take 3-4 years max before you start seeing them in the NRL. We are still trying to get it right which is nonsense. What you are saying is we have all these football experts from the Head coach to the Head of Football down, and none of then in the 9 years before we hired Brown has a clue as to how bad it was? Like I said, I call bullsh*t. If that were true they have all been stealing their salaries and they are totally inept.

But anyway again we wait and see. Nothing else we can do.

To highlight the point. Look at our only outside back real success story in Penisini, why has he been able to rise so prominently in the NRL? I'll tell you why, genuine good attitude and talent. Not our processes. He was already showing these qualities back at Kings Collage and he is the only one that we IDENTIFIED correctly and then our processes put the stamina and durability and a little polish on him to handle the NRL. Identification comes first, then the processes.
 
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Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
92,429
Were are the real gems in our nursery? You don't need to create, speed, power, stepping agility or instinct? They are there or they aren't.
We are surrounded by NRL clubs in Parramatta, so these players are being poached by other clubs. We don’t get exclusive access to them.
 

emjaycee

Coach
Messages
13,945
For a period of time we definitely had trouble with either identifying them, or hanging onto the ones we did identify.
This is a key reason for the detailed review of our juniors setup and the appointment of N Brown to review pathways, etc. Also why we have in more recent times dedicated more effort ($$) to junior areas, such as the appointment of De Gois. Hopefully now with the success of our SG Ball team we will start to see the result of sowing more seeds into our juniors and we will see more of them stay within our club.
 

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
17,424
For a period of time we definitely had trouble with either identifying them, or hanging onto the ones we did identify.
This is a key reason for the detailed review of our juniors setup and the appointment of N Brown to review pathways, etc. Also why we have in more recent times dedicated more effort ($$) to junior areas, such as the appointment of De Gois. Hopefully now with the success of our SG Ball team we will start to see the result of sowing more seeds into our juniors and we will see more of them stay within our club.
What does De Gwa do at the club?

We seem to have plenty of names in pathways now, Brown, Shephard, Rankin, De Gwa. I'm sure there are others not as well known.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
13,911
What does De Gwa do at the club?

We seem to have plenty of names in pathways now, Brown, Shephard, Rankin, De Gwa. I'm sure there are others not as well known.

I would settle for one that know how to identify quality. Then the kid will workout the rest.
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
78,100
We lost Toupou because we thought he was a second rower, stunning call that one.
And I remember in an article back then that he said Parra were a basket case or words to that affect and we had issues with our systems.
And no, I couldn't be F'ed finding it.


giphy.gif
 

Delboy

First Grade
Messages
7,655
Mate, Gould turned the Panthers, who were basically ready for administration when he came in and their juniors systems were a car wreck around and winning playing 3 grand finals and winning 2 so far in less then what 6-7 years? But leading up to that they were producing real talent almost from within the first couple of years. I doesn't take that long. Just like Semi, talent is talent. You just need the right people in charge that can identify and then bring it along.

Where are the real gems in our nursery? You don't need to create, speed, power, stepping agility or instinct? They are there or they aren't. I'm not talking about gifted play makers here. They do need intense development. What I'm talking about is raw athletic ability like most NRL players have. We then just need to build on it with endurance and footy smarts. That happens in the lower grades. But their ability is already evident.

So what are you trying to say? We have all these great kids coming through that we have been taking on board but then because it takes years to set things right, we have been somehow butchering them and their natural talents? I don't buy it. I think we have been failing mostly on identification and some on retention. Otherwise if we have been blessed with a good handful or two of quality kids and all we have managed to do is stuff them up because of our structures still being sh*t over the last 10 years that is outrages and ridiculous and I call bullsh*t.

Like I said, it only takes a year or so to set up the systems you want to build and play under. They are just managerial decisions ffs. No one has to go out and build the Harbour Bridge. Make the right decisions in the office, then go out and hire(no one does it all on their own) the right people for each task, then build on that and tweak and adjust where necessary and watch with in a couple of year the kids developing and within 3-4 years max, you should start seeing the fruits of your labour sprout and ripen if you got it right.

But obviously we are still trying to get it right and offering a million and one excuses as to why it hasn't happened yet. While Gould in the space of what 12-18 months with almost no juniors in his catchment area has started to add and develop in his lower grades players that he can call on to the point that he has excess outside backs and it is just the beginning.

If you get it right it take 3-4 years max before you start seeing them in the NRL. We are still trying to get it right which is nonsense. What you are saying is we have all these football experts from the Head coach to the Head of Football down, and none of then in the 9 years before we hired Brown has a clue as to how bad it was? Like I said, I call bullsh*t. If that were true they have all been stealing their salaries and they are totally inept.

But anyway again we wait and see. Nothing else we can do.

To highlight the point. Look at our only outside back real success story in Penisini, why has he been able to rise so prominently in the NRL? I'll tell you why, genuine good attitude and talent. Not our processes. He was already showing these qualities back at Kings Collage and he is the only one that we IDENTIFIED correctly and then our processes put the stamina and durability and a little polish on him to handle the NRL. Identification comes first, then the processes.
Not quite the fact, Penisini moved from Wenty to the Rhinos in U12s. He was included in the age development squads, and as part of his progress the club can pay school fees. He was sent to Kings given proximity and a working relationship with the club. He did play school rugby, mostly midweek comps and played junior reps and also weekend league at Rouse Hill. It was seen as part of his development and he was never a union junior per se.

Tupou was playing at Parra when SK and BA were employed. BA saw a lot of potential in him and wanted him , but SK saw him as a skinny winger and not worth retaining and as he was senior, Tupou was released.
 

King-Gutho94

Coach
Messages
16,139
Not quite the fact, Penisini moved from Wenty to the Rhinos in U12s. He was included in the age development squads, and as part of his progress the club can pay school fees. He was sent to Kings given proximity and a working relationship with the club. He did play school rugby, mostly midweek comps and played junior reps and also weekend league at Rouse Hill. It was seen as part of his development and he was never a union junior per se.

Tupou was playing at Parra when SK and BA were employed. BA saw a lot of potential in him and wanted him , but SK saw him as a skinny winger and not worth retaining and as he was senior, Tupou was released.
Signing Stephen Kearney as coach was one of the worse decisions this club ever made.

And we have had some shit ones.

Kearney sent us down a 5 year spiral and it started with signing Chris Sandow on 500k.

All the deadwood Sticky had to clean out was thanks to Kearney.
 

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
154,649
Signing Stephen Kearney as coach was one of the worse decisions this club ever made.

And we have had some shit ones.

Kearney sent us down a 5 year spiral and it started with signing Chris Sandow on 500k.

All the deadwood Sticky had to clean out was thanks to Kearney.
Hagan was an even worse signing, he was an absolute disaster. Kearney was shithouse but he took over one of the worst Eels squads ever.
 

hindy111

Post Whore
Messages
63,549
Not quite the fact, Penisini moved from Wenty to the Rhinos in U12s. He was included in the age development squads, and as part of his progress the club can pay school fees. He was sent to Kings given proximity and a working relationship with the club. He did play school rugby, mostly midweek comps and played junior reps and also weekend league at Rouse Hill. It was seen as part of his development and he was never a union junior per se.

Tupou was playing at Parra when SK and BA were employed. BA saw a lot of potential in him and wanted him , but SK saw him as a skinny winger and not worth retaining and as he was senior, Tupou was released.

Its quite funny many fans had some sort of belief BA could turn an average forward into a very good one after Papali'i.
But they forget about the duds.

Watmough
C.Nelson
F.Pritchard
K.Evans
Hipgrave
Murchie
Moimesea

Above was some guys who where not even cheap. All garbage.

Now let's look at the OK for cost.

Ogden
Doorey
Greig
Bryce
Davey
Valve
Matagi
Wicks
N.Brown

And the excellent considering value.

Papali'i
Hopgood
Lane
Marata

We can add these guys but we paid up for them. So hardly super signings.

Rcg
Scott ( Plodder for his last season )
Matterson ( Who we let go in first place )


So of 21 forwards 4 have been what I'd say excellent signings. I'd almost throw Wicks in. N.Brown I can't include as a great signing because we gave him a 550k extensions for 2022/2023. So any good work was offset by this. Over 1 million flushed down the toilet.

Now let's look at what kids he bought thru in the last 10yrs upfront.

Kafusi
Alvaro
Stone
Stefano

I won't count Pauli Pauli as he was already in the system.
So that's the forward stocks of our juniors. None with the club. All just average players bar Stefano who has upside.

How can anyone sit here and feel BA is some sort of master of getting value from cheap forwards. I've LAID OUT the stats. It's pathetic people feel he is some sort of master in this area. He isn't. Throw enough darts and some will hit.
 

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