Russel Packer. Did we dodge a bullet?

[The Damo]

I'm Curious do you think, you would lose your job if you assualted a male out in town on any given night?
or if a same sex couple assualted their partner in a domestic dispute, would they sack or rehabilitate..

Same sex partner should be sacked. Domestic violence should be treated as taboo.
Assault on a man while out on the town, there might be mitigating circumstances that mean sacking wouldn’t be justified. Needs to be investigated but most cases where someone is found guilty of such an assault would justify sacking.

 

[Gardenia]

Same sex partner should be sacked. Domestic violence should be treated as taboo.
Assault on a man while out on the town, there might be mitigating circumstances that mean sacking wouldn’t be justified. Needs to be investigated but most cases where someone is found guilty of such an assault would justify sacking.

People that go around assaulting people - particularly those with less ability to defend themselves such as women and children need to have severe consequences.

 

[muzby]

It needs to stop, hence there needs to be zero tolerance. In all industries as well, not just Rugby League.

I don't even know why this is even a discussion?

Tell me about it..........

 

[Old Timer]

100%

I’m absolutely on board with a standard that says - guilty of criminal violence against women or children, and most likely incidences against men, and you’re sacked from whatever club.
Do your time, serve your punishment, get yourself together and demonstrate you’re committed to doing better, then sure come back, with strict conditions.

So the notion of standing them down whilst you help rehabilitate them is not an option for you?
Do you maintain that they should be sacked, rehabilitated elsewhere, return to the game but never grace our clubs doors again?

 

[The Damo]

So the notion of standing them down whilst you help rehabilitate them is not an option for you?
Do you maintain that they should be sacked, rehabilitated elsewhere, return to the game but never grace our clubs doors again?

For crimes of that type, yes I think sacking is an appropriate consequence. However I wouldn’t be opposed in some circumstances to a club sacking the player from the squad but staying involved to assist in rehab. Working in another non privileged role with strict conditions and ongoing support, I could get behind something like that.
And yes, as reprehensible as someone like AFB’s actions were, if he’s served his punishment and genuinely demonstrated that he’s committed to doing the right thing then I’m ok with a second chance at our club. But I still think tearing up his contract was the right decision. You shouldn’t get to keep a first grade contract after doing something like that.

 

[Old Timer]

For crimes of that type, yes I think sacking is an appropriate consequence. However I wouldn’t be opposed in some circumstances to a club sacking the player from the squad but staying involved to assist in rehab. Working in another non privileged role with strict conditions and ongoing support, I could get behind something like that.
And yes, as reprehensible as someone like AFB’s actions were, if he’s served his punishment and genuinely demonstrated that he’s committed to doing the right thing then I’m ok with a second chance at our club. But I still think tearing up his contract was the right decision. You shouldn’t get to keep a first grade contract after doing something like that.

Well if we had if stood him down and kept him in the fold we could have assisted hm and his family and retained a good prospect
I don’t think he had a 1st grade contract or a privileged life he was a19 year old lower grade player who made a terrible mistake.
I suspect if he had been a 25 year old rep player the club would have handled it differently.
By the way far better discussing this with you rather than being preached to by the unflushable turd.

 

[Dragonslayer]

https://www.theleader.com.au/story/3180846/dragons-end-addin-fonua-blakes-contract/

I hope this article settles some debate about AFB, his stand down and his eventual sacking.

As some have pointed out he was a Mascot Jets junior who signed to the Rabbits in 2012. In 2013 he joined the Eels. He joined the Dragons in 2014. In January 2015 he was stood down and eventually had his contract terminated on 30th June.
He completed the necessary programs that satisfied the NRL integrity unit and was picked up by Manly. It was also noted that we offered education and welfare programs during his stand down.

 

[muzby]

By the way far better discussing this with you rather than being preached to by the unflushable turd.

It only feels like “preaching” because you were/are so far off the mark in terms of your position on domestic violence.

Yes rehabilitate those who offend, but there should be zero tolerance and no second chances as it’s too much of a hidden issue..

And we all know the likelihood of more issues happening tomorrow night.

 

[Old Timer]

It only feels like “preaching” because you were/are so far off the mark in terms of your position on domestic violence.

Yes rehabilitate those who offend, but there should be zero tolerance and no second chances as it’s too much of a hidden issue..

And we all know the likelihood of more issues happening tomorrow night.

So why do you follow NRL?
It is a game where some of the players perpetrate heinous deeds against women
You choose to not only follow but support a sport that allows the very people you wish to ostracise exist and earn huge $$$$ doing so.
If your moral compass was true and your outrage so palpable you would make a real stand and not follow the game at all.

 

[giboz71]

https://www.theleader.com.au/story/3180846/dragons-end-addin-fonua-blakes-contract/

I hope this article settles some debate about AFB, his stand down and his eventual sacking.

As some have pointed out he was a Mascot Jets junior who signed to the Rabbits in 2012. In 2013 he joined the Eels. He joined the Dragons in 2014. In January 2015 he was stood down and eventually had his contract terminated on 30th June.
He completed the necessary programs that satisfied the NRL integrity unit and was picked up by Manly. It was also noted that we offered education and welfare programs during his stand down.

Got no problem with AFB signing with Manly after going through the necessary steps to satisfy the NRL. From all accounts, he's turned his life around so good on him if this is the case. We did the same with Packer and Duges for different reasons and worked out well for us.

But still have no problem with sacking him. Yes it sux that we had to let go a promising player, but this goes beyond footy. If we didn't sack him after he admitted to domestic violence, what message does that send to the wider team and our juniors? And our sponsors?

He's not the first to get sacked and make it elsewhere. Raiders lost Carney, Duges and Fergo. Bird ended up at the Titans after getting sacked by Cronulla. Lui ended up at the Cows. Lodge ended up at Brisbane. Packer ended up with us.

They served their punishment and were able to move on.

So again, I don't know why there is an argument about this?

 

[muzby]

So why do you follow NRL?
It is a game where some of the players perpetrate heinous deeds against women
You choose to not only follow but support a sport that allows the very people you wish to ostracise exist and earn huge $$$$ doing so.
If your moral compass was true and your outrage so palpable you would make a real stand and not follow the game at all.

Actually quite the opposite.

For all our clubs football operations failings, they’ve sent a clear message that domestic violence won’t be accepted.

So on that stance I’m proud to support the dragons..

Even more so when on the field our players belt those who belt women.

 

[Saints Forever]

Got no problem with AFB signing with Manly after going through the necessary steps to satisfy the NRL. From all accounts, he's turned his life around so good on him if this is the case. We did the same with Packer and Duges for different reasons and worked out well for us.

But still have no problem with sacking him. Yes it sux that we had to let go a promising player, but this goes beyond footy. If we didn't sack him after he admitted to domestic violence, what message does that send to the wider team and our juniors? And our sponsors?

He's not the first to get sacked and make it elsewhere. Raiders lost Carney, Duges and Fergo. Bird ended up at the Titans after getting sacked by Cronulla. Lui ended up at the Cows. Lodge ended up at Brisbane. Packer ended up with us.

They served their punishment and were able to move on.

So again, I don't why there is an argument about this?

Unlike others, Blake admitted he committed the offence.

So many players deny the charges and later convince their partners not to give evidence against them.

He made a massive mistake and he paid for it.

He was 19 at the time and most likely brought up in a family where violence was the norm.

Our justice system prides itself on the concept of appropriate punishment and rehabilitation.

The point is he appears to have learned his lesson and changed as a man.

The point OT is trying to make is that we could have attempted to rehabilitate him and could have suspended him until we were sure he had learned his lesson.

The Packer incident was equally as disturbing.

 

[muzby]

He was 19 at the time and most likely brought up in a family where violence was the norm.

This really isn’t an acceptable excuse these days.

It just perpetuates the cycle.

The point OT is trying to make is that we could have attempted to rehabilitate him and could have suspended him until we were sure he had learned his lesson.

And at what point would we consider ourselves “sure” he had learned his lesson?

So I’m this hypothetical world what happens if his contract expires during this period of sureness testing, what then?

 

[giboz71]

Unlike others, Blake admitted he committed the offence.

So many players deny the charges and later convince their partners not to give evidence against them.

He made a massive mistake and he paid for it.

He was 19 at the time and most likely brought up in a family where violence was the norm.

Our justice system prides itself on the concept of appropriate punishment and rehabilitation.

The point is he appears to have learned his lesson and changed as a man.

The point OT is trying to make is that we could have attempted to rehabilitate him and could have suspended him until we were sure he had learned his lesson.

The Packer incident was equally as disturbing.

I hear what you're saying. And certainly the Raiders feel aggrieved for losing guys like Duges, Fergo and Carney. Hence they chose not to sack Jack Wighton after his incident.

We could have chosen to keep him on, but I can't think of another example where a player admitted to crimes against women and was kept on? Lui was sacked, Bird was sacked. Nielsen was sacked. Barba was sacked. Fergo was sacked.

Scott Bolton is still with the Cows but you can argue his incident was not deemed violent (he touched a woman's leg from what I remember?)

So it's not like we haven't followed what other clubs have done with these sort of incidents.

 

[Saints Forever]

This really isn’t an acceptable excuse these days.

It just perpetuates the cycle.

It is not offered as an excuse, merely as an explanation as to how such conduct may have occurred.


And at what point would we consider ourselves “sure” he had learned his lesson?

There are numerous educational programs available. He should have been required to perform community service. He should then have been assessed by a psychologist regularly until it was considered that he turned over a new leaf.

So I’m this hypothetical world what happens if his contract expires during this period of sureness testing, what then?

This really doesn't matter. The point is we could have provided better guidance and pastoral care to a young man. The objective is to rehabilitate him. Whether he played football again doesn't matter to me.

 

[Carlton]

I hear what you're saying. And certainly the Raiders feel aggrieved for losing guys like Duges, Fergo and Carney. Hence they chose not to sack Jack Wighton after his incident.

We could have chosen to keep him on, but I can't think of another example where a player admitted to crimes against women and was kept on? Lui was sacked, Bird was sacked. Nielsen was sacked. Barba was sacked. Fergo was sacked.

Scott Bolton is still with the Cows but you can argue his incident was not deemed violent (he touched a woman's leg from what I remember?)

So it's not like we haven't followed what other clubs have done with these sort of incidents.

Once a player has committed a violent crime and their sentence hasn't been served I dont believe the club should be trying to play pseudo legal system. They should cut ties with the player and once the sentenced is served rehabilitation may be a viable option if the player shows that they have understood and accepted their mistake.

I dont think that excuses, soft options and /or turning a blind eye to these indiscretions will change anything. Its only when there is a clear and unbending approach that things change. An example of this is the current ruling that if you punch in a match you're sent off, no excuses. This has reduced punches to almost zero.

 

[giboz71]

This really doesn't matter. The point is we could have provided better guidance and pastoral care to a young man. The objective is to rehabilitate him. Whether he played football again doesn't matter to me.

Correct.

And we did provide support and education in the 6 months he was stood down. It's not like we kicked him to kerb once he got charged. But once the charge was proven, it was only then his contract was terminated (6 months later)

Same thing applies to JDB, He is stood down pending a court case and I'm pretty sure his contract will be torn up too if he's found guilty or admits to the charge.

As a club, we did everything right with AFB.

 

[muzby]

This really doesn't matter. The point is we could have provided better guidance and pastoral care to a young man. The objective is to rehabilitate him. Whether he played football again doesn't matter to me.

It matters immensely.

If he stays in the club environment, with the safety net that either our club or another club will still employ him sends a terrible message - that it doesn’t matter if you f**k up, the club will pick up after you.

The message needs to be, and was, sent by the club that we don’t accept domestic violence here.

There are plenty of people in society who are victims of DV, and showing that you are supporting a perpetrator sends a message to them that as victims they are the ones in the wrong.


And pastoral care? Please.

By the age of 19 you are already considered of sound enough mind to:
- Vote
- Buy & consume alcohol
- Buy & consume tobacco
- Face trial as an adult in court
- Control a motor vehicle by yourself
- Choose whether or not you wish to gamble
- Be over the age of sexual consent
- Leave school and work full time
- Travel overseas by yourself

Plus plenty more..

So why should “not hit a woman” be left off such a list?

 

[Old Timer]

https://www.theleader.com.au/story/3180846/dragons-end-addin-fonua-blakes-contract/

I hope this article settles some debate about AFB, his stand down and his eventual sacking.

As some have pointed out he was a Mascot Jets junior who signed to the Rabbits

Actually quite the opposite.

For all our clubs football operations failings, they’ve sent a clear message that domestic violence won’t be accepted.

So on that stance I’m proud to support the dragons..

Even more so when on the field our players belt those who belt women.

You love avoiding things in an effort to support your views.
Read the post and answer the question that was asked not the one you think was asked or that you want to answer.
Your last sentence is total fantasy and utter dribble.
Even from you I expect better than that bullshit.

 

[muzby]

You love avoiding things in an effort to support your views.
Read the post and answer the question that was asked not the one you think was asked or that you want to answer.
Your last sentence is total fantasy and utter dribble.
Even from you I expect better than that bullshit.

OT - the rest of us are trying to have a discussion on a serious matter that hits home to a lot of people.

If you can’t do anything else but sit there calling names, swearing at people and overall not really making much sense, perhaps it’s best for everyone that you disengage here as it’s clearly winding you up.