Sack Adam O'Brien

[aqua_duck]

Yeah I thought if he can't turn it around, are the players not responding to him?

First it was the off-season admission and then he's mentioned a few times about our attitude of taking opponents lightly.

These are alarm bells to me that he's not getting the reaction or buy-in from players that he should be. What could he possibly do to change this? Time will tell but I think he'll be out the door before he can turn it around.

To me he's driven an even bigger wedge between himself and the playing squad trying to salvage what little is left of his reputation amongst the media.

 

[Knight Tales]

To me he's driven an even bigger wedge between himself and the playing squad trying to salvage what little is left of his reputation amongst the media.

A lot of this issues were implied but where there is smoke…… Players probably see hypocrisy and that is usually the start of the end for a coach in terms of the playing group and he being on the same page. The politics of playing groups and managers holds too much sway in the modern game.

 

[Haffa]

He did say it’s something he has to figure out but kind of blamed the toxic culture again. Basically he’s aware of it and is saying it’s not an easy fix because it’s ingrained in us.

Third year in the job and he is trotting that out....

 

[macavity]

Third year in the job and he is trotting that out....

if we have this shit culture and he has rightly identified it, what are his plans to change it?

Because 3 years in we aren’t seeing any evidence he has made it any better.

 

[Knight Tales]

if we have this shit culture and he has rightly identified it, what are his plans to change it?

Because 3 years in we aren’t seeing any evidence he has made it any better.

One has to wonder how much this ‘culture’ is truth and how much is just a shield to hide behind when you need an excuse as a coach . Browny identified the biggest issue was the way our cap was spent. It was nothing short of a joke. We needed leaders. He went and got them. We needed a halfback. He went and bought one.
Browny must just shake his head at O’Brien. The excuses he trots out. Brown left him with a good roster. His job was pretty simple. Improve on it. Has done nothing close to that. We have four recent or current origin forwards in our pack now. That tells you other coaches identify the talent. So there are really non excuses left. When a rep coach basically outs you as unable to get a very good forward pack to dominate other sides as a collective, then that is a coaching issue. Nothing else.

 

[Mr_Knightside]

One has to wonder how much this ‘culture’ is truth and how much is just a shield to hide behind when you need an excuse as a coach . Browny identified the biggest issue was the way our cap was spent. It was nothing short of a joke. We needed leaders. He went and got them. We needed a halfback. He went and bought one.
Browny must just shake his head at O’Brien. The excuses he trots out. Brown left him with a good roster. His job was pretty simple. Improve on it. Has done nothing close to that. We have four recent or current origin forwards in our pack now. That tells you other coaches identify the talent. So there are really non excuses left. When a rep coach basically outs you as unable to get a very good forward pack to dominate other sides as a collective, then that is a coaching issue. Nothing else.

I mean, we did play finals the last two years after Brown left... which Brown wasn't able to achieve during his tenure.

I take your point but I think the idea that AOB is somehow a massive backwards step from Brown isn't correct. Brown had a pretty good roster from 2018-2019 and the team under performed for him too and it cost him his job.

 

[TooheysNew]

I mean, we did play finals the last two years after Brown left... which Brown wasn't able to achieve during his tenure.

I take your point but I think the idea that AOB is somehow a massive backwards step from Brown isn't correct. Brown had a pretty good roster from 2018-2019 and the team under performed for him too and it cost him his job.

We had that roster because brown built it. We've definitely gone backwards since.

 

[Knight Tales]

0

I mean, we did play finals the last two years after Brown left... which Brown wasn't able to achieve during his tenure.

I take your point but I think the idea that AOB is somehow a massive backwards step from Brown isn't correct. Brown had a pretty good roster from 2018-2019 and the team under performed for him too and it cost him his job.

O'Brien is divisive. He was brought here to improve the side into a top 4 team. He has gone backwards. Simple as that.

 

[Mr_Knightside]

0

O'Brien is divisive. He was brought here to improve the side into a top 4 team. He has gone backwards. Simple as that.

Cleary we’re not a top 4 team but they did go forwards to some degree for 2 years initially. The point I’m making is that we did play finals in ‘20 and ‘21 and had a better W/L record in both those years than we did under Brown. To say that we didn’t improve at all is ignoring that fact.

Obviously this year is where we have slid back down again which AOB is partially responsible for but some of that is on management & recruitment for making some poor decisions such as signing Pearce to a 1 year deal, then letting him walk a few months later without a replacement lined up.

 

[TooheysNew]

Pretty clear which coach was responsible for most of the improvement in the club recently.

 

[Mr_Knightside]

View attachment 63589

View attachment 63590



Pretty clear which coach was responsible for most of the improvement in the club recently.

We won 1 game in 2016 remember. Not exactly surprising that our W/L record shot up from there.

I’m not arguing that AOB is better than Brown or that he has had more influence etc because clearly Brown put the foundations of this roster together but to say that we showed no improvement at all under AOB isn’t correct.

Can’t defend what’s happened this year because it’s been bad but people seem to be forgetting the two previous years entirely.

 

[Old dog]

Improvement in the team comes from more than the coach, obtaining higher standard players and development/maturity of others. We have done a bit of both so it is up to the coach to bring it all together and then continue looking for improvements and players.
If coach fails then player performance drops off which I think is our problem.
Think if Brownie had stayed and got the team we have now we would be in same situation or higher, after all the chicken was good

 

[Jono078]

Can’t defend what’s happened this year because it’s been bad but people seem to be forgetting the two previous years entirely.

Not forgetting, but likewise I think you’re ignoring how we looked in the last two years as well. We never looked like a well structured team. We got by with some real effort games.

So yeah it was nice we made the finals, but was clear as day we didn’t look like a cohesive team that was well coached.

 

[TooheysNew]

We won 1 game in 2016 remember. Not exactly surprising that our W/L record shot up from there.

I’m not arguing that AOB is better than Brown or that he has had more influence etc because clearly Brown put the foundations of this roster together but to say that we showed no improvement at all under AOB isn’t correct.

Can’t defend what’s happened this year because it’s been bad but people seem to be forgetting the two previous years entirely.

Not surprising, no. But something changed to cause the W/L record to shoot up.

I strongly disagree that we've visibly improved much under AOB. Apart from Dom Young, which players have substantially improved in the last three years?

And Jono is 100% correct. The fact that we scraped into the 8 doesn't hide the fact that we were terrible and never deserved to be there. If you're pointing to that as your proof of improvement, it's a thin veil to say the least.

 

[Mr_Knightside]

Not surprising, no. But something changed to cause the W/L record to shoot up.

I strongly disagree that we've visibly improved much under AOB. Apart from Dom Young, which players have substantially improved in the last three years?

And Jono is 100% correct. The fact that we scraped into the 8 doesn't hide the fact that we were terrible and never deserved to be there. If you're pointing to that as your proof of improvement, it's a thin veil to say the least.

It all depends on how you’re measuring improvement. A simple way to do that is our win/loss record which improved under AOB in 20/21 and was better than anything that Brown produced here. That is a fact and is not open to interpretation. I get that we’ve gone backwards in a number of areas this year so I won’t dispute that but surely wins & losses are the most important stat to judge a coach on right?

I totally agree that we didn’t play very attractive football a lot of the time and I was frustrated watching us too. But at the end of the day it’s wins and losses that determines where you finish on the ladder which in turn determines whether you get a shot at the premiership.

Don’t get me wrong, I am as frustrated as everyone else on here when it comes to watching us play like shit most weeks and yes AOB should be under some pressure but I just think the narrative around here seems to be let’s heap shit on the coach when things are bad whilst overlooking any influence he might have had on things when they go right.

to answer your earlier question about which players I think have improved since AOB took over…
- Dom Young (obviously)
- DSaf (not sure what’s going on this year but he’s become an origin player over the last couple of years)
- Lee (when not injured)
- Klemmer (playing great footy right now yeah?)
- Brailey (when not injured)
- Croker??? Certainly looks like he’s stepped up into first grade pretty comfortably for the most part

Yes some guys have gone backwards too and others have probably hit their ceiling already. This whole topic is open to interpretation and how you see it personally. I’m just giving you my take on it, not expecting everyone to agree on it.

 

[Haffa]

Last season we were poor until a run of games in August against teams shitter than us happened to coincide with the return of Pearce from Injury. Canberra, Brisbane, Cronulla, Canterbury and the Gold Coast. Biggest winning margin in those 5 games was 10 points.

With a home final on the line against the Broncos the team shits the bed and limp out against Parra a week later. Outside of a 38-0 win over the Cowboys the next largest margin of victory was 16 points.

Sure we made the finals but why is that considered "good enough"?

 

[Haffa]

I get that we’ve gone backwards in a number of areas this year so I won’t dispute that but surely wins & losses are the most important stat to judge a coach on right?

2019 - 10 Wins - Under Brown
2020 - 11 Wins
2021 - 12 Wins

Just need to give him 12 more years to go undefeated through the season. That is dependant on this team winning 7 more games...

 

[Mr_Knightside]

2019 - 10 Wins - Under Brown
2020 - 11 Wins
2021 - 12 Wins

Just need to give him 12 more years to go undefeated through the season. That is dependant on this team winning 7 more games...

Once again. As I’ve said before already. We’re not a top 4 team and if that’s what the club had expected of AOB when they approached him then he’s failed at that so far. But people have said things like “no improvement” etc which isn’t true if you’re basing it on wins & losses for the first couple of years that he’s been here.

 

[The Axe of Druss]

Once again. As I’ve said before already. We’re not a top 4 team and if that’s what the club had expected of AOB when they approached him then he’s failed at that so far. But people have said things like “no improvement” etc which isn’t true if you’re basing it on wins & losses for the first couple of years that he’s been here.

Right now we arent even a top 8 team......or a top 10 team even

That is 100% a failure

 

[Jono078]

I think we're saddened that AOB didn't make the most of the opportunity presented to him and now it appears we're on the decline rather than on the up.