Sack Adam O'Brien

[Yosh]

Has AOB really influenced Ponga's game this year? Isn't it more the case Ponga has gotten his act together and started to really apply himself? His constant head knocks and missing out on SOO has probably woken him up to face reality and really appreciate all he has. If anything, AOB tried to ruin Ponga by taking him into the front line and play six.

Our attack is probably the best it's been ever under AOB but it's still bottom 4. We always shift the ball wide and either Ponga gets it second man and is able to genius his way through or Ponga is used as a decoy and it opens up space for one of our other guys to run through. We still have no offload game, our forwards only know how to cart the ball up, we still do crash play after crash play, we have no game out of the ruck, we still only kick on the 5th tackle, we still put up these weird mini bombs in the opposition 20....

Our backline has been amazing bringing the ball out of our half. Gagai and Best are in career best form but we still don't give them any early ball....

Sorry to chew down all our positive points but it's just soooo super depressing.

 

[mozza91]

Everything that goes wrong is Obi’s fault. Anything that goes right or improves is in spite of Obi.
How good is it to be an NRL coach!

 

[Spot On]

I don't think AOB is actually the problem.

Just not sure he is the solution.

Unfortunately I don't think the solution exists. We are just cursed to be soft in the head forever.

The first two sentences…I remember you said the same thing re Brown. Word for word. Would love to know exactly what happened there when that all fell apart.

And it is possible you were right. Because what can’t be denied is how true your last two sentences are.

There’s been a few green shoots this year, some pretty good footy from a lot of players and then…. some absolute dogshit.

I still don’t see any particular ‘style’ to our footy side which is disappointing going this far into O’Brien’s tenure. We still lack the type of attacking footy that provides multiple options for ball players, often enough.

Then we have effort issues and simple lack of footy smarts from players in the pack that fail to get off the ground after making a tackle, flying out of the line looking like they’re going to bury the ball carrier but are lucky to lay a finger on them, fail to move laterally through laziness when the ball moves way from ruck only to have it turned back in toward the hole they have left or let a halfback duck under an attempted tackle to set a try up.

There’s a lot of reasons we have lost close games this year but a few extremely poor, lazy, soft moments from players in our pack have lead directly to our last two losses.

Yes, we are forever to be soft in the head.

 

[macavity]

The first two sentences…I remember you said the same thing re Brown. Word for word. Would love to know exactly what happened there when that all fell apart.

And it is possible you were right. Because what can’t be denied is how true your last two sentences are.

There’s been a few green shoots this year, some pretty good footy from a lot of players and then…. some absolute dogshit.

I still don’t see any particular ‘style’ to our footy side which is disappointing going this far into O’Brien’s tenure. We still lack the type of attacking footy that provides multiple options for ball players, often enough.

Then we have effort issues and simple lack of footy smarts from players in the pack that fail to get off the ground after making a tackle, flying out of the line looking like they’re going to bury the ball carrier but are lucky to lay a finger on them, fail to move laterally through laziness when the ball moves way from ruck only to have it turned back in toward the hole they have left or let a halfback duck under an attempted tackle to set a try up.

There’s a lot of reasons we have lost close games this year but a few extremely poor, lazy, soft moments from players in our pack have lead directly to our last two losses.

Yes, we are forever to be soft in the head.

it was true of Brown too.

Our club culture is just horrific. Winning is foreign.

 

[perverse]

it was true of Brown too.

Our club culture is just horrific. Winning is foreign.

If Joey was born and raised in Sydney instead of Cessnock it never would have been any different honestly. Any success or winning culture we ever had can be boiled down to that one man. Everyone else has always just been happy enough to "have a dig".

 

[Haffa]

We are just like the titans minus that period of generational talent. Early years built on experienced old heads, then Plod. Our history just included Andrew Johns to drag us through for a decade longer before plod set in.

 

[Woody90]

That’s the sad thing. Even the years that we won premierships, we weren’t even the dominant side those years. They were both underdog wins and probably wouldn’t have happened without Joey.

We’ve never been what you would consider dominant or successful. We don’t know what that looks like.

 

[slotmachine]

Parra had that unbelievable season in 2001 but I always thought we were the best team in the comp which was proven on GF day. We were the best team in 2002 and should have won that as well.

But since Joey's last full season (2006) the highest the knights have finished the regular season is 7th, 17 years of mediocrity.

 

[Mr_Knightside]

I think AOB has managed to get some things right this season despite our position on the ladder. We’ve been far more competitive this season for far longer periods than last season for sure. Last year it felt like we got dusted by 30+ every week aside from a few games where we were out-derped by the Tigers or another similarly bad side. This year we’ve only really had 2 bad performances which was against the Sharks and Eels but aside from that we’ve lost 3-4 games by close margins that arguably we should have won, in fact with a better goal kicker we’re at least 2 wins ahead of our current position and potentially people aren’t having this conversation.

More than anything it seems like our game management has been poor during crucial times hence we were run down by the Panthers, Cowboys and Broncos.

One thing I would say is we’re a far more enjoyable side to watch this year, our attack has been purring at times and we have a quality backline. If only we had Brailey around to properly steer the ship from dummy half.

I’m probably going against the grain here but I don’t think AOB’s position is untenable like most on here and I’m not convinced that someone like Madge McGuire has the answers to this team’s problems either. Flanagan isn’t an option now so we have to look at who’s currently available and if there’s not a standout option to replace him then AOB should keep his gig for now.

 

[slotmachine]

only really had 2 bad performances which was against the Sharks and Eels

Did you forget the weekend? I'll forgive you for erasing it from memory due to PTSD

in fact with a better goal kicker we’re at least 2 wins ahead of our current position and potentially people aren’t having this conversation.

I had a look at this because I wanted to know how badly it's burned us.

Manly: Draw fair result, both teams kicked 4/6.
Panthers: 100% lost on goal kicking, scored 1 more try but went 1/4 for goals where Panthers went 3/4.
Cowboys: wouldn't put this down to goal kicking, cowboys went 3/4 knights 2/3. If both teams kicked 100% Cowboys still win.
Broncos: kicking did cost us, scored same number of tries but broncs go 4/4 and we only manage 2/4.
Roosters: Also not goal kicking, both teams converted 2/3 but the roosters had a penalty goal as well.

So give us 2 more wins we are 7 wins and a draw, sitting in 9th position and still a chance at the finals I guess.

 

[aqua_duck]

It’s all relative, to us possibly being 9th is in some circles a pass mark, for most other teams that’s abject failure.

 

[Yosh]

I think AOB has managed to get some things right this season despite our position on the ladder. We’ve been far more competitive this season for far longer periods than last season for sure. Last year it felt like we got dusted by 30+ every week aside from a few games where we were out-derped by the Tigers or another similarly bad side. This year we’ve only really had 2 bad performances which was against the Sharks and Eels but aside from that we’ve lost 3-4 games by close margins that arguably we should have won, in fact with a better goal kicker we’re at least 2 wins ahead of our current position and potentially people aren’t having this conversation.

More than anything it seems like our game management has been poor during crucial times hence we were run down by the Panthers, Cowboys and Broncos.

One thing I would say is we’re a far more enjoyable side to watch this year, our attack has been purring at times and we have a quality backline. If only we had Brailey around to properly steer the ship from dummy half.

I’m probably going against the grain here but I don’t think AOB’s position is untenable like most on here and I’m not convinced that someone like Madge McGuire has the answers to this team’s problems either. Flanagan isn’t an option now so we have to look at who’s currently available and if there’s not a standout option to replace him then AOB should keep his gig for now.

You're fine with us being mediocre to bad every single season? You don't want us to be a top 4 to 6 side every season? What's okay with AOB?

 

[Woody90]

I think AOB has managed to get some things right this season despite our position on the ladder. We’ve been far more competitive this season for far longer periods than last season for sure. Last year it felt like we got dusted by 30+ every week aside from a few games where we were out-derped by the Tigers or another similarly bad side. This year we’ve only really had 2 bad performances which was against the Sharks and Eels but aside from that we’ve lost 3-4 games by close margins that arguably we should have won, in fact with a better goal kicker we’re at least 2 wins ahead of our current position and potentially people aren’t having this conversation.

More than anything it seems like our game management has been poor during crucial times hence we were run down by the Panthers, Cowboys and Broncos.

One thing I would say is we’re a far more enjoyable side to watch this year, our attack has been purring at times and we have a quality backline. If only we had Brailey around to properly steer the ship from dummy half.

I’m probably going against the grain here but I don’t think AOB’s position is untenable like most on here and I’m not convinced that someone like Madge McGuire has the answers to this team’s problems either. Flanagan isn’t an option now so we have to look at who’s currently available and if there’s not a standout option to replace him then AOB should keep his gig for now.

While I agree with a lot of what you're saying, I think the reason why so many of us are fed up though is the inconsistency. I'm not denying that we've improved on last season, but we need to see results, and if you looked at AOB's tenure as a whole we keep regressing.

Yes we have lost a lot of games on goal kicking but if we're being honest, with the game on the weekend we never should have been in a situation where that came down to goal kicking. The Roosters had a lot out and we went into the game in much better form than them. We should have won so comfortably that goal kicking didn't come into it, but instead we display one of our worst games of the season. Same with the Cowboys game, leading up to that game we were in much better form than them but we completely dropped the ball.

Of the available coaches I also agree with you that none fill me with a whole heap of confidence in being able to fix us. I feel we need a shake up though as consistency comes down to the Team's mindset. Whether it's pure laziness because they know they won't be dropped (I'm speaking mainly about the forwards here who are our biggest problem), or nervousness because they don't think they can win, it's the coaches job to have them buying into the same vision and mentality every week.

We also have lost some games purely on goal kicking and poor management from dummy half but the coach has stubbornly refused to acknowledge that Crossland is killing us every game from the outset or try other options for goal kicking.

I do agree with you that we've generally improved our performances this year, but that's also shown us that we can play better than the crap we produced on the weekend and it's a big issue that we turned up to a very winnable game and shat the bed.

 

[Mr_Knightside]

You're fine with us being mediocre to bad every single season? You don't want us to be a top 4 to 6 side every season? What's okay with AOB?

You’re definitely twisting my words there Yosh.

So which coach are we bringing in who gets us to top 4 or top 6 consistently? Is there anyone out there right now who’s available and capable of doing that?

I’m not ok with mediocrity but there’s something to be said for stability in the football department. This club has been constantly upending its roster and coaching staff for the best part of two decades and clearly it isn’t working. A couple of examples of stability in coaching (despite some of the early results) would be Ricky Stuart at the Raiders and Brad Arthur at the Eels. Both coaches didn’t have a great start at their respective clubs but both have been given time to build and both those clubs have been in a GF recently. From memory Arthur could have been sacked a couple of times, he coached them to a spoon at one point didn’t he?

Anyway my point is that both of those clubs held their nerve and backed their coach when things were tough and they’ve both taken them to within grabbing distance of the premiership in recent years. Worth thinking about imo.

 

[slotmachine]

I don't know if Ricky and Arthur are good comparisons.

Raiders finished 2nd on the table in Ricky's third year.
Eels finished 4th in Arthurs's fourth year.

We are a million miles away from the top 4.

 

[mozza91]

We’ve definitely improved this season but last year was so f**king diabolical it would’ve been pretty hard not to.

I’m all for looking for a new coach but let’s get a good one not someone who’s unproven or failed elsewhere.

 

[Mr_Knightside]

I don't know if Ricky and Arthur are good comparisons.

Raiders finished 2nd on the table in Ricky's third year.
Eels finished 4th in Arthurs's fourth year.

We are a million miles away from the top 4.

From memory though didn’t they have a couple of bad years under Ricky before that 2nd place finish? And Arthur definitely got a spoon at some point which is normally enough to get a coach sacked, seems like the club’s decision to back him paid dividends.

 

[perverse]

From memory though didn’t they have a couple of bad years under Ricky before that 2nd place finish? And Arthur definitely got a spoon at some point which is normally enough to get a coach sacked, seems like the club’s decision to back him paid dividends.

How many years do you give him? 5? 7? 10?

We're staring down the barrel of another wasted year, and not a lot to get excited about next year either with the only noises coming out of the club suggesting that our cap is a mess again (on his watch no less, it's year 4 for him).

There needs to be a line in the sand at some point, otherwise we're just accepting the mediocrity from the top... and when it's accepted from the top, you can guarentee it'll flow all the way down to the squad too.

 

[Apey]

We've been "in" more games this year but it doesn't mean anything if you're never building on that and eventually converting those close games to wins. We took it to Broncos in Brisbane and backed it up by losing to a, on form, bottom 4 team missing half their players, losing 2 more in the first half, at home. We're not going anywhere and for any player that has improved under AOB, two more have regressed.

 

[slotmachine]

From memory though didn’t they have a couple of bad years under Ricky before that 2nd place finish? And Arthur definitely got a spoon at some point which is normally enough to get a coach sacked, seems like the club’s decision to back him paid dividends.

Raiders went: 15th, 10th, 2nd
Eels went: 10th, 12th, 14th*, 4th
* were actually 8th but had points stripped for salary cap cheating

Knights will end up: 7th, 7th, 14th, ?

So with Ricky and Arthur you can see they were improving, and by year 4 were a genuine top 4 side.
Doesn't apply to the knights under AOB IMO.