Salary Cap

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

I have to say it's pretty hard to understand the policy reasons behind it.

It's almost a penalty for having depth.

It also seems to penalise teams not playing well if it can't be used to replace players out of form. That's hardly an equalising measure.

Well, yes, it is in a sense (or more particularly for paying a large amount of money for depth). Just like the salary cap is a penalty for having lots of great players.

 

[Bigfella]

The big cap we are. It's the reggie cap that is a pain for the battlers.

Teams that win the comp generally field the same team every week and suffer fewer injuries than those who finish down the ladder.

I bet Manly's 2nd tier cap is in trouble already too.

Glad it doesn't affect the nrl team.

Like say, who we can select in it.

 

[Noise]

Which players in our top 25 (besides Edwards) do we think haven't played first grade this year?

 

[hineyrulz]

Which players in our top 25 (besides Edwards) do we think haven't played first grade this year?

Prichard maybe????

 

[Joshuatheeel]

Which players in our top 25 (besides Edwards) do we think haven't played first grade this year?

Toutai and maybe Matterson ( I assume he is as apparently the storm were chasing him and think it's a bit strange a club wouldn't have a third half in their top 25).

Not sure where Nelson would be but would he leave the Titans and home to come to parramatta for a 2nd tier contract ?

Could also add kelepi and loko ....

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

Toutai and maybe Matterson ( I assume he is as apparently the storm were chasing him and think it's a bit strange a club wouldn't have a third half in their top 25).

Not sure where Nelson would be but would he leave the Titans and home to come to parramatta for a 2nd tier contract ?

Could also add kelepi and loko ....

Maybe Ualesi too. He'd be on the fringe of the Top 25 (or Top 23 at the club).

And we don't 100% know that a spot isn't taken by JH (in the vain hope that returned mid-season).

 

[Joshuatheeel]

They could be holding JH spot or another spot for Gordon.

If Gordon comes he is obviously going to be playing NRL and we wouldn't be looking at him if there was a spot. So maybe we only have a top 24 at the moment.

 

[Noise]

Toutai and maybe Matterson ( I assume he is as apparently the storm were chasing him and think it's a bit strange a club wouldn't have a third half in their top 25).

Not sure where Nelson would be but would he leave the Titans and home to come to parramatta for a 2nd tier contract ?

Could also add kelepi and loko ....

If some of, or all of Matterson, Toutai, Nelson, Kelepi and Loko (ualesi and Hayne?) are part of our top 25 then that is our own fault for having a large number of players in our top 25 who we don't see fit or not available for playing first grade.

Which of these players were signed/let go by current management?

 

[Noise]

double

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

If some of, or all of Matterson, Toutai, Nelson, Kelepi and Loko (ualesi and Hayne?) are part of our top 25 then that is our own fault for having a large number of players in our top 25 who we don't see fit or not available for playing first grade.

Which of these players were signed/let go by current management?

It's management's fault that Toutai has been injured for most of the season?

Not sure about Kelepi...but if reports are to be believed Loko would definitely be Top 25 for 2015 (given his heavily backended deal). It comes down to whether you'd rather by paying 100% of $440k for him to be injured / drunk / otherwise unavailable for us, or paying $150k for him to be similarly pissing off his current employer. It's debatable, but it's necessarily a terrible decision.

 

[Chipmunk]

Prichard maybe????

If Prichard is in our Top 25 then the club deserves what it gets.

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

If Prichard is in our Top 25 then the club deserves what it gets.

Wouldn't surprise me. He was re-signed in July 2013, before Peats was secured, MK was on way out and you'd think there'd be at least a moderate degree of back-ending for a developing player. So a 2015 salary at the bottom of the Top 25 is plausible (given information available to to RS, Bentley and Sharpie at the time the decision was made.

 

[emjaycee]

It's management's fault that Toutai has been injured for most of the season?

Not sure about Kelepi...but if reports are to be believed Loko would definitely be Top 25 for 2015 (given his heavily backended deal). It comes down to whether you'd rather by paying 100% of $440k for him to be injured / drunk / otherwise unavailable for us, or paying $150k for him to be similarly pissing off his current employer. It's debatable, but it's necessarily a terrible decision.

I understand Loko was released to free up a top 25 spot.

 

[Suitman]

Wouldn't surprise me. He was re-signed in July 2013, before Peats was secured, MK was on way out and you'd think there'd be at least a moderate degree of back-ending for a developing player. So a 2015 salary at the bottom of the Top 25 is plausible (given information available to to RS, Bentley and Sharpie at the time the decision was made.

Doesn't all this "back ending" just create further problems down the track?
If we can't afford him now, or we have to "lower his salary" to keep him now, what makes them think we can afford him on a higher salary two years down the track? Honest question.

Suity

 

[Bandwagon]

Doesn't all this "back ending" just create further problems down the track?
If we can't afford him now, or we have to "lower his salary" to keep him now, what makes them think we can afford him on a higher salary two years down the track? Honest question.

Suity

To artificially create a premiership window. Done right, a club can have a few years where their roster value is higher than the cap, sure it has to catch up with you in the end, but if you jag a premiership, who's gonna complain?

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

Doesn't all this "back ending" just create further problems down the track?
If we can't afford him now, or we have to "lower his salary" to keep him now, what makes them think we can afford him on a higher salary two years down the track? Honest question.

Suity

Yes it does, and yes it did. But it comes in two forms. 1) where the back-ending approximates the club's belief in the player's annual worth to the team and 2) where it is done purely because there is no cap space at the front end.

Type 1) makes some sense. I've never been a big fan of KP, but plenty of others are (or have been). When the club re-signed him, I think it would be fair to say that they would expect him to play more FG games in 2015 than in 2014. So a rising salary makes some sense.

Type 2) can't be a sustainable long term strategy.

Many case I assume contain a mix of 1) and 2).

EDIT: Type 3) Where backending just mirrors the known changes in total Salary Cap (no problem).

 

[Suitman]

Yes it does, and yes it did. But it comes in two forms. 1) where the back-ending approximates the club's belief in the player's annual worth to the team and 2) where it is done purely because there is no cap space at the front end.

Type 1) makes some sense. I've never been a big fan of KP, but plenty of others are (or have been). When the club re-signed him, I think it would be fair to say that they would expect him to play more FG games in 2015 than in 2014. So a rising salary makes some sense.

Type 2) can't be a sustainable long term strategy.

Many case I assume contain a mix of 1) and 2).

EDIT: Type 3) Where backending just mirrors the known changes in total Salary Cap (no problem).

Ok, so say we signed KP for this season on 150 k's, and then next season, his back ended deal means he's on 250 k's. Don't we just take that iextra 100 k's into account when signing other players for next season?
To me, it's a bit like managing your credit card.

Suity

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

Ok, so say we signed KP for this season on 150 k's, and then next season, his back ended deal means he's on 250 k's. Don't we just take that iextra 100 k's into account when signing other players for next season?
To me, it's a bit like managing your credit card.

Suity

KP is not signed for next year (not sure whether that is what you were suggesting).

We can easily take into account a salary increase when working out how much is committed. How easy it is to translate that into salaries you can offer other players depends on their willingness to accept a back-ended deal, how long a deal they want, how old they'll be at end of deal etc.

The reason that opportunistic back ending can't be a long-term strategy across the whole squad is that not every player you want/need to sign will accept a lower salary in the early (only) years of their deal with us. So heavily back-ending lots of players without regard to their expected career development reduces your other signing options. And this really sucks arse when you have disproporionate bunch of blokes reaching payola in the same year.

 

[Joshuatheeel]

I doubt KP is any where near on those figures mentioned. He was probably of a Under 20's / second tier contract last year and at most is on a $100k or less this year if he is even on a top 25 contract.

Long term signing of juniors like KP also works to our advantage while KP is injured we probably have Pauli on a similar contract. While Junior Paulo is probably on bugger all as he signs in 2013 until the end of 2016, we are probably getting him a lot cheaper then if he had to paid him his current market value.

 

[Suitman]

Thanks Baz.
For the record, it was an example, not what I thought KP was earning.

Suity