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Sam Tomkins: coming to an NRL club near you

Messages
2,399
You'd have to get doctor's permission for Boyd to be released from hospital first.

Tomkins has done more this year than Darius.

Frikin hilarious! You nob ed.

D Boyd at his best is better than S Tomkins.

All-round, if my life depended on it, I would be tempted to go with Zak Hardaker over Sam Tomkins. Possibly centre-forward(No.9) could be S Tomkins' best position, his brother Logan plays there.
 

POPEYE

Coach
Messages
11,397
Tomkins is learning to play NRL, he is a far better student than people want him to be
 

sup42

Juniors
Messages
2,466
Tomkins was rubbished for being no good under the high ball....now that the Warriors are providing blockers he is outstanding under the high ball He will drop a ball here and there brace yourselves).

The Warriors season has been built on the new ability to run set plays like clock work to put Hurrell one on one with people.....that has been the foundation play of the Warriors for the entire season and Tomkins is the first player we have ever fielded that has given us that option of a consistent strike rate with a play that is on every teams tip sheet ( It has featured on every NRL opponent of the Warriors video sessions in the first three minutes for the last four games straight and no one can stop.

The main reason these plays work every week is that Tomkins has been running them for Wigan for years and years.....so they are not some revelation to ESL fans who have seen them all before ( Goulding and Charnely lived off those plays ).
 
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natheel

Coach
Messages
12,137
Really enjoy watching him play good to see him picking up some good form going into the finals
 

POPEYE

Coach
Messages
11,397
Really enjoy watching him play good to see him picking up some good form going into the finals

That just about sums it up, seeing the bloke around the ball more than most players and imagining what he can do translated into what he is beginning to do
 

TheDMC

Bench
Messages
3,419
Think it's both tbh...

I know I am classed as a hater, but he hasn't "single handedly turned the Warriors around" that is pretty stupid.

My frustration is he has been pretty ordinary compared to what he was hyped to be... he's been largely anonymous against good teams, his kick returns have been ineffective, and most importantly every game he has a stupid mistake (and then the defence seems to be he's heavily involved - well Manu is too, in fact his involvement is huge in terms of getting us rolling, yet he's castigated for dropping the ball once in a play the ball - when in the same game [Manly] Tomkins did that 2-3 times..

The errors will cost in tight games, that's all I am saying...

JJ, simply by your constant and repetitive harping on about Tompkins failings you single-handedly swamp all Tompkins apologists, if they even really exist.

I enjoy your league posts in general except your Tompkins fetish for which, seriously dude, you have made your point ad nauseam - can you do yourself and the rest of us a favor by not mentioning the bloke again for the rest of the season. Please.
 

tangalife

Juniors
Messages
530
Think it's both tbh...

I know I am classed as a hater, but he hasn't "single handedly turned the Warriors around" that is pretty stupid.

How do we not know? A marquee player arrives, a new coach arrives and look at our performances sky rockets. I am not saying he has single handedly turned us around but the Warriors have been crying out for players of his professionalism and dedication for years now and its no strange that with his arrival we actually look like a team that a) is trying harder than ever and b) is trustworthy.

My frustration is he has been pretty ordinary compared to what he was hyped to be..

I can agree I was expecting a bit more, but I am more than happy with his performances and I would like to see what this off-season brings for him. Lets check this next year.

his kick returns have been ineffective, and most importantly every game he has a stupid mistake (and then the defence seems to be he's heavily involved - well Manu is too, in fact his involvement is huge in terms of getting us rolling, yet he's castigated for dropping the ball once in a play the ball - when in the same game [Manly] Tomkins did that 2-3 times..

How often do you actually see Fullbacks put in a kick return? Not many actually do this regulary, this is just something we expect him to do because he did it in the super league. It's not actually considered PAR for a fullback to be splitting the line on a kick return so I dont know why we judge him on this...again perhaps because we are comparing him to what he is capable of?

And I think if you were to give Tomkins a hard time for his mistakes, then Manu doesn't get a pass here as both of them make pretty dumb mistakes yet like to make up for it TBH.

The errors will cost in tight games, that's all I am saying...

You've been saying this for weeks now and im still waiting for this to actually happen?
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,710
How do we not know? A marquee player arrives, a new coach arrives and look at our performances sky rockets. I am not saying he has single handedly turned us around but the Warriors have been crying out for players of his professionalism and dedication for years now and its no strange that with his arrival we actually look like a team that a) is trying harder than ever and b) is trustworthy.




You've been saying this for weeks now and im still waiting for this to actually happen?

Sky rockets? Are we in a fundamentally different position on the table now, to what we were this time last year?? Sky rockets??? Seriously, we're mid table... Any change was when McFadden took over, pretty obviously

Cost us points? It has, the Gold Caast game springs to mind...

I am fine with him, it's just strange to me that his apologists can't accept any criticism, yet launch into various others very quickly... he's had pretty much a free ride... Must have missed the memo where Warriors fans must unconditionally endorse Tomkins as an elite NRL fullback... apologies
 

tangalife

Juniors
Messages
530
If you can't see how much of a better side we are this year compared to the last two years, coupled with your critism of Tomkins, then Im starting to believe you dont actually watch the Warriors?

Let me give you some stats I just put togeather, comparing against some of the other FB's in the game (Slater, Boyd, Morgan, Hayne, Moylan, Barba, Gordon, Stewart, Inglis, Mini and Milford....)

Did you know Tomkins has made the most Tackles (both per game and total). 4th (Inglis pips him by 1m) on metres per game (completely negating your 'ineffective kick returns' comment)
4th on Try Assists (15th overall)
4th on Linebreak Assists (10th overall)
 

chrisD

Coach
Messages
14,769
The main reason these plays work every week is that Tomkins has been running them for Wigan for years and years.....so they are not some revelation to ESL fans who have seen them all before ( Goulding and Charnely lived off those plays ).

It's the same out the back play every other NRL team runs, the Warriors are particularly good at it down the right, but it's not a revelation to anyone.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,710
TheDMC said:
10367204;39005

I enjoy your league posts in general except your Tompkins fetish for which, seriously dude, you have made your point ad nauseam - can you do yourself and the rest of us a favor by not mentioning the bloke again for the rest of the season. Please.

Can try... might need to give him points in the 3-2-1 - have done in the past once or twice :lol:

Doing ok so far...
 

sup42

Juniors
Messages
2,466
It's the same out the back play every other NRL team runs, the Warriors are particularly good at it down the right, but it's not a revelation to anyone.
It's the same play.

The revelation is that every single team in the NRL knows that it is the first play the Warriors use in every game.

The revelation is that Penrith / Para / Brisbane / Manly / Canberra all got scorched in the first three minutes of the game by a play that their tip sheet had written in at # 1

Apart from that yeah it's hardly a revelation Tomkins holding the ball up long enough to put Hurrell through some poor bastard in 75 % of the Warriors games since Tomkins arrived.

The point I was making is that playing a bog standard set move is a revelation for the Warriors and with their unique player type it takes more than an experienced Aussie from a structured team to permanently change the way the Warriors play Football ( We have been fond of recruiting Storm players in the hope their uber structured ways would rub off...that has been a spectacular failure ).

As any Aussie Commentator will spout " It's hard to know where to put your finger on it " with the Warriors....Tomkins has cracked the Warrior code and in less than a season has been more influential in our style of play than twenty years of switching coaches and importing Aussies.

It's interesting because The current Rabbits coach was a Bellamy disciple and instilled that Storm pet play into Tomkins during his time as Wigan coach.

For those genuinely interested in the differences....you only need look up Hurrells original highlights reel on youtube....he was a by comparison pre Tomkins a very crude barge and bash merchant.

The biggest switch Tomkins has acheived at the Warriors is being influential in their using the width of the park....any Warriors fan with a pinch of league knowledge would admit that the Warriors main attack weakness is not being able to create overlaps or one on one plays for both wings.

They are either left edge 'one dimensional' ( the Manu years ) or right side top heavy.

Ben Ikin made the point of Hurrell that the Warriors have fed off a go to guy and that used to be Manu and now it's Hurrell.....he is right however he didn't mention the underlying cause.

The Warriors have lacked a spine player / pairing that can link both sides of the park.


That had a flow on effect....It meant previous coaches were limited to one side of the field or using second rowers in endless 2nd man plays to offer a point of difference to the kick to Manu or the give it to Konrad and expect him to bowl people over.....or lob it to Johnson and stand around like browns cows watching him crab across the field in the hope he can single handedly create something.

You will often hear people like Gordon Tallis perpetuate the Myth about the Big Warriors forwards and playing direct.

That's because of the reasons I've stated already....the backline ball movement has been so dysfunctional pre Tomkins that it is easy to mistake the direct play amongst the forwards as somehow mutually exclusive to playing like other NRL teams ( Structured fast, low mistake rate set plays ) when in fact the Warriors keeping the ball in the forwards was symptomatic of that same dysfunctional inability to blend a Shaun Johnson with a James Maloney in a consistently structured way.

Both good players but neither of them could single handedly bypass people like Neilson in the way Tomkins can deliver a ball straight to Manu.

The influence Tomkins is having over the Warriors attacking play is profound....inside a season he has killed off the jungle ball unpredictability element the opposition expect ( him and Townsend are what's different in terms of cattle )/

A remarkable catalyst for change to playing predictable conventional structured rugby league Warriors coaches have tried to master through various default means since 1995.

There have been partial successes in the past....Cleary was a pragmatist....however without a 108kg Winger performing acrobatics Cleary didn't have the diversity we see now.
 
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Campion

Juniors
Messages
481
The sup42 guy has cracked the code. It genuinely is a revelation for the Warriors to be pulling off plays like that, and it pretty much comes down to Tomkins. I expected Tomkins to be NZWarriors answer to Billy Slater. He isn't that, but what he is providing is just as special.
 

chrisD

Coach
Messages
14,769
It's the same play.

The revelation is that every single team in the NRL knows that it is the first play the Warriors use in every game.

The revelation is that Penrith / Para / Brisbane / Manly / Canberra all got scorched in the first three minutes of the game by a play that their tip sheet had written in at # 1.

Yeah ok. It's the same play, that every NRL team runs with continuing success and really not worth the essay, the Warriors are good at it on the right because Johnson can measure a pass, Tomkins has good hands and the outside players position themselves well, it's not revolutionary, it's not a revelation and it's not unique to Tomkins, he didn't invent it or import it from the SL to the NRL, he just plays his part in it very well.
 

sup42

Juniors
Messages
2,466
Yeah ok. It's the same play, that every NRL team runs with continuing success and really not worth the essay, the Warriors are good at it on the right because Johnson can measure a pass, Tomkins has good hands and the outside players position themselves well, it's not revolutionary, it's not a revelation and it's not unique to Tomkins, he didn't invent it or import it from the SL to the NRL, he just plays his part in it very well.
It's the Warriors we are talking about.

The Warriors have tried to emulate other teams structures and been roundly mocked when they don't achieve results.

The differences are the same at international levels....you can see it when the Kiwis play the Kagaroos. The Kiwis do not play structure well despite having people like Isaac Luke / Shaun Johnson /Kieran Foran/SBW.

It is not about talented individuals, It's really about someone with a read on their team mates and being able to change the way the players around them think.

A hallmark of Tomkins reputation is the influence he has on the players around him ( ask Wigan fans ).

Subtle difference when you mix Tomkins and the Warriors with bog standard set plays is that it is a potent mix and why they are the number one attacking side in the competition which they couldn't achieve before Tomkins.

The best example is this :

People expected ( especially after the NRL nines ) that Tomkins and Johnson would link off each other and carve teams up.

That would have been a continuation of Warrior ball.

What we are seeing instead is an import who has his team mates believing in set play team moves to set up other people like Hurrell and stick to it game after game.
 
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MrAnonymous

Bench
Messages
4,070
Been playing bog average for weeks and finally plays a decent game agaisnt one of the worst NRL sides ever and all of a sudden he is the best fb in the game?

Delusional merkins, his form has been better then the start of the year but when he starts carving up top 4 sides then we can start talking about him being one of the best.
 

sup42

Juniors
Messages
2,466
Been playing bog average for weeks and finally plays a decent game agaisnt one of the worst NRL sides ever and all of a sudden he is the best fb in the game?

Delusional merkins, his form has been better then the start of the year but when he starts carving up top 4 sides then we can start talking about him being one of the best.

The threat Tomkins adds to the Warriors is putting other players in one on one or outright overlaps.

Since the Warriors have some of the biggest, strongest ball running backs in the competition they lead the comp in points for.

Simple really.
 

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