Same sh*t, different smell?

[Burwood]

I'm interested to hear people's opinions on the Smith/Hagan coach swap, and how they perceive it to be going so far. Since the announcement early last year that Newcastle had signed Smith as coach, there has been a lot of talk about what he would bring to the club. Most of this talk centred around what Hagan couldn't/wouldn't provide- namely picking a weekly team based on form and not playing favourites.

I'm not saying that the signing Smith and letting go of Hagan was a bad decision, or that Smith has not worked wonders with the first grade squad since he joined the club. This is not a thread to bash either of the two coaches, so please refrain from doing so.

I'm more interested if people are surprised by some of the choices that Smith has made so far. I touched on it in another thread, but the irony of Smith continually selecting Abraham at 5/8 and playing guys like Carmont and Reynoldson in the team does not escape me. If this was Hagan making these selection choices there would be an outcry and call for his head.

 

[voltron]

i guess everyone is just waiting, to see what happens and how it turns out
a successful team is a stable team.
just ask the roosters last year what happened when they were swapped around every week
they couldnt get into a groove
its a team game, and just because players play well in another team is no guarantee that they will in in another
they might be missing a synergy with players.
so changes come, but in small increments. fine tuning is better.

unless you're totally off, then you just start again
but we've won 3/5 so we must be doing something right

 

[macavity]

bring me his head!

is that better?

seriously, he is still better - witness Paterson in FG, witness the improvement in Kidley.... witness the wins without A.J....

 

[Alex28]

3 wins without Johns this season...would have Hages won that many games without Joey in his career with the Knights?

 

[TooheysNew]

Who would we rather have in the halves with Mullen? Kidley is not a half, our younger guys are all injured, Brown has utility value, Tighe is horribly out of form...

 

[perverse]

bring me his head!

is that better?

seriously, he is still better - witness Paterson in FG, witness the improvement in Kidley.... witness the wins without A.J....

slam dunk there mate.

and i also agree with what voltron said about tuning the team... he's not making wholesale changes.. because that can be worse.

i think he's showing undue faith in the centres.. for whatever reason. we have better options and i do expect to see them exercised eventually.

smith is still learning a lot about the players he's working with.. and it's still going to take time. our wins haven't looked that great.. but over the past 2 or 3 weeks we are really improving.. and 3/5 in the middle of this process ain't bad at all. there has still been a lot of chopping and changing with positions.. and it's good to see that.

 

[roopy]

Smith signed the entire Flegg side of last season - Hagan wouldn't have done that.
Smith worked all off season on the forwards and i genuinely think every forward has improved to some degree in the off season - Hagan wouldn't have done that.
Smith is trying players in new positions - Paterson at prop, Tolar at lock, Abes at 5/8, Kidley at rover - Hages would need a gun at his head to try guys in positions just for the hell of it.

Smith puts up a cut and paste side every week, but that is because no one actually decides on their side on Tuesday - it only comes out on Tuesday because the Big League magazine has a deadline to meet.
Have we actually seen the Tuesday team take the field unchanged yet?

Hagan was completely predictable. Can anyone say they predicted Paterson at prop, Newton at prop, Tolar at Lock, Kidley to move into dummy half, McManus to start the season, Seu Seu to start the season, or whatever he has in store for us this week?

 

[Ben]

I think the fact that we are actually winning without Andrew Johns shows the work Smith has done with the team. When Hages was on board, with Joey playing he looked like a brilliant coach. But when Joey went missing Hages went missing as well. Also, just from memory, with Hagan we were never a team that could play the full eighty minutes and win close games. The side would either pull of to a massive lead and then drop off in the second half or just not be in the game together. Smith has certainly changed this. We now play for the full eighty minutes and are able to play sensible football and work their way back into the game despite being down at the half time break.

 

[roopy]

The team still has a huge amount of improvement in it.
Smith is reinventing guys every week.
Newton was always a prop when you think about it.
Tolar was always a lock when you think about it.
Kidley was born to play rover - he was just waiting for the position to be invented.

 

[Burwood]

I don't need convincing of all of the good things that Smith has brought to the club;-) There is no doubt that he has brought along certain players quite nicely, and the players' attitude during a match has seen them grind out some tough wins. We are certainly heading in the right direction as a club.

But I do find some of the points talked about in here interesting. I first discussed the idea of Tolar being moved to the back row several weeks ago, but it was quickly shut down by people on here. Now Smith does it and it is a master stroke. I wouldn't blame Hagan for not signing up all of our juniors. The club purse strings have been so tight over the years that we struggled to pay our first graders, let alone juniors- it was impossible to keep them all.

And our ability to win games without Johns has been building over the last 12-18 months (as said by the players and Smith himself after Joey retired). The two wins that we had at the end of last season would have given the boys a lot of confidence heading into this season, so I don't think we can put it 100% down to Smith.

 

[Baron Vo Mandor]

As Macavity said aside from the changes his made its the simple believe that we can be a competitive team without Joey in it, which is something that Hagan could never or wasnt willing to instill in us.

Does anyone actually believe with supercoach we'd be 3/5? IMO most of us are pretty damn certain we'd be headed for spoonville quicker then a sailor hitting a brothel when getting into port!

While I am far from convinced we'll be there in september I do believe that unlike under Hagan, that our team will have the self believe to compete in every match and we'll win enough match's to avoid the spoon quite comfortably.

 

[Misanthrope]

While I'm not a huge fan of him sticking loyal to a team that has so far produced one narrow loss, three ugly wins, and a spectacular thumping - I do have a lot of time for the fact he's got guys like McManus, Tolar, Patterson, and even Tighe back in first grade. A lot of us were calling for Tighe and Tolar's inclusions last year to no avail. I also note that White has been immense since given the chance - and a refreshing lack of regular Riley Brown/Reegan Tanner appearances.

 

[keeney]

Riley Brown has seen too much FG already.

 

[Yosh]

Yeah definately much better for the club then Hagan was. Like not just what he is doing with the first team but everything else he has done for the club. Stuff other people have already mentioned.

 

[knightsyeah12]

In another thread and on the NBN news Smith said he has given the boys 6 weeks to play if they dont shape up (which some havent) than there will be changes. He was giving them a set time to show him what they could do. Good work by Smith i think, so next week we might see some of the changes we have been calling for!

 

[keeney]

Also look at the immense improvement in our PL team. Seems the atmosphere around the club has improved a lot. The additional players we have there aren't doing us any harm either.

 

[strewth_mate]

seriously, he is still better - witness Paterson in FG, witness the improvement in Kidley.... witness the wins without A.J....

I agree with this, but just food for thought:
- Kidley has played better when there's no Johns or such to run the show, and when he's had the opportunity to do what he wants, which had indicated to me that a fullback provided the direction in our attack, not necessarily the best ad for our halves;
- Paterson in FG is fantastic, but the test is if his position will be threatened if his form starts to slip.

 

[CJKnight]

I think the biggest thing Smith has bought to the club is his ability to discern where each player should actually be playing. He knows what position they would be better suited.
Look at the following examples:

Kidley: He is a born Rover, injecting himself into the attack where he sees fit, whether that be a dummy-half or second reciever. Yes, he could have done that playing at Lock, but the worload would have made him alot less effective in attack.

Patto/Seu Seu/McManus: All 3 have been successes in their move to FG. Smith's talent with blooding juniors is outstanding.

Tolar/Newton: They both look like they have found the positions that suit them. Newton's workload goes up by 200% whenever he plays prop, while Tolar has a bit more freedom to roam and use his brain at lock.

Wooly: He has always been more of a bench player IMO. Very solid and his workrate has improved considerably under Smith.

 

[keeney]

I think Newton was running wide again when he was making his impact last Sunday. He's a 2nd rower, not a prop.

 

[RABK]

Tolar/Newton: They both look like they have found the positions that suit them. Newton's workload goes up by 200% whenever he plays prop, while Tolar has a bit more freedom to roam and use his brain at lock.

Wooly: He has always been more of a bench player IMO. Very solid and his workrate has improved considerably under Smith.

Can i see a source or some stats to back the bolded lines up? I think you're making things up again.