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Season "23 bolters.

Iamback

Referee
Messages
20,297
Your probably right in some respects although didn’t Nathan re-sign a long term deal when Gus was still in charge. Maybe my memory fails me but I thought that was the case.

Doesn't he have a current clause that if Ivan is sacked he can go?
 

Smug Panther

First Grade
Messages
7,004
Disagreement is the whole point of a forum. I openly admit when my thoughts end up wrong or get changed by a sound argument.
 

Kilkenny

Coach
Messages
13,864
Doesn't he have a current clause that if Ivan is sacked he can go?
I’ve got no idea, no one has i suspect.

Again did he not re-sign a long term multi million dollar deal under Gus. Maybe there is such a clause in his most recent deal.
 

Iamback

Referee
Messages
20,297
I’ve got no idea, no one has i suspect.

Again did he not re-sign a long term multi million dollar deal under Gus. Maybe there is such a clause in his most recent deal.

Apparently it is there
 

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Crashtest

Juniors
Messages
1,189
Was wrong about Edwards but not the rest
So you weren’t wrong about Cleary even though he has coached us to back to back premierships? You weren’t wrong about Martin even though he is currently carving up playing for Australia, after carving up the Eels in a grand final? You weren’t wrong Luai even though he is part of the best halves combination in the NRL winning back to back premierships?
 

Smug Panther

First Grade
Messages
7,004
So you weren’t wrong about Cleary even though he has coached us to back to back premierships? You weren’t wrong about Martin even though he is currently carving up playing for Australia, after carving up the Eels in a grand final? You weren’t wrong Luai even though he is part of the best halves combination in the NRL winning back to back premierships?
Cleary was a mid tier coach who's now in the upper tier. He's still no Bennett or Bellamy.

On Martin I've said he was managed poorly and burned out every year (which he did till this year where Ivan rested players). I also think he best spot is in the middle.

Luai is good but we let a better option go, this one is an opinion and yet to be proven either way.
 
Messages
4,310
I think that Bellamy is the best coach going around but Cleary is better than Bennett at this stage of his career. Bennett took over a top 4 side at the Rabbits and despite adding some seriously good players, wasn’t able to get them over the line. What was most disappointing was a) his failure to really develop the juniors and b) the difference between their best and worst performances (which led to them not being in the right spot come finals time). Cleary has taken a team of players that had a lot of promise but horrible structure and terrible inconsistency, and made them in to the most consistently excellent team in the comp, that wins game through outplaying you over an 80 minute performance. It’s tough to game plan against.

In terms of the retention decisions the club has made the right decisions, shown by the fact we are back-to-back champions and the amount of players we have in the WC and SOO. In particular;
- signing up the 6, 7, 13 of this team on longer term deals. Individually brilliant players but amazing as a group. In particular, the decision to anoint Luai at 6 has been shown to be spot on. What he does for the team might be unseen by the untrained eye, but he is a great foil for the other two given what he can do in the final 20 (being dangerous through the run, pass or kick) and his edge defence is first class. He is also amazing for culture. There is a reason he is first choice SOO.
- deciding to go softly at Burton (which they understood meant he would go). Burton might be good in the future but I would argue he is barely living up to his 500k price tags at the moment and isn’t worth 1m, because when you are being paid that much you need to have no weaknesses in your game and able to win matches on your own. Burton needs to a) become a better defend (some of his decisions the other night against Italy were putrid. I would give him a pass saying that he was defending at centre, but his efforts with the Dogs are little better), b) improve his tactical kicking game and c) learn to play both sides of the park.
c) let Api go given he wanted a longer term contract. We all agree Api is great but given what we all saw at the end of the back end of the year it is obvious he is slowing down and not able to be a 80 minute player; that is no negative given his age as he was due to slow down at some stage. Paying someone 800k to come off the bench for the next three years is how you get your salary cap out of whack and I am glad the club is taking a long term view.
- I feel the same about Kiks. Along with Api will be a Panther legend; but while we didn’t see it this year, for a human of his size that relies on athletisicism I see his drop off over the next two years being precipitous.
- I think anyone watching the last 3 months of football that sees Martin as anything but a back rower has probably been drinking a few too many long necks during the coverage. The guy has been an animal and his effectiveness would have been blunted in the middle.

The one mistake I do think the Panthers have made is Fish’s contract. Love him to bits, but the contract size and length for a front rowers really worries me. I fear in 20 months time we will be talking about how we regret that contract, particularly if we have lost Spencer in the interim.
 

Iamback

Referee
Messages
20,297
I think that Bellamy is the best coach going around but Cleary is better than Bennett at this stage of his career. Bennett took over a top 4 side at the Rabbits and despite adding some seriously good players, wasn’t able to get them over the line. What was most disappointing was a) his failure to really develop the juniors and b) the difference between their best and worst performances (which led to them not being in the right spot come finals time). Cleary has taken a team of players that had a lot of promise but horrible structure and terrible inconsistency, and made them in to the most consistently excellent team in the comp, that wins game through outplaying you over an 80 minute performance. It’s tough to game plan against.

In terms of the retention decisions the club has made the right decisions, shown by the fact we are back-to-back champions and the amount of players we have in the WC and SOO. In particular;
- signing up the 6, 7, 13 of this team on longer term deals. Individually brilliant players but amazing as a group. In particular, the decision to anoint Luai at 6 has been shown to be spot on. What he does for the team might be unseen by the untrained eye, but he is a great foil for the other two given what he can do in the final 20 (being dangerous through the run, pass or kick) and his edge defence is first class. He is also amazing for culture. There is a reason he is first choice SOO.
- deciding to go softly at Burton (which they understood meant he would go). Burton might be good in the future but I would argue he is barely living up to his 500k price tags at the moment and isn’t worth 1m, because when you are being paid that much you need to have no weaknesses in your game and able to win matches on your own. Burton needs to a) become a better defend (some of his decisions the other night against Italy were putrid. I would give him a pass saying that he was defending at centre, but his efforts with the Dogs are little better), b) improve his tactical kicking game and c) learn to play both sides of the park.
c) let Api go given he wanted a longer term contract. We all agree Api is great but given what we all saw at the end of the back end of the year it is obvious he is slowing down and not able to be a 80 minute player; that is no negative given his age as he was due to slow down at some stage. Paying someone 800k to come off the bench for the next three years is how you get your salary cap out of whack and I am glad the club is taking a long term view.
- I feel the same about Kiks. Along with Api will be a Panther legend; but while we didn’t see it this year, for a human of his size that relies on athletisicism I see his drop off over the next two years being precipitous.
- I think anyone watching the last 3 months of football that sees Martin as anything but a back rower has probably been drinking a few too many long necks during the coverage. The guy has been an animal and his effectiveness would have been blunted in the middle.

The one mistake I do think the Panthers have made is Fish’s contract. Love him to bits, but the contract size and length for a front rowers really worries me. I fear in 20 months time we will be talking about how we regret that contract, particularly if we have lost Spencer in the interim.

Good post

Burton was understandable, We had a 6 and went with Luai

My issue with Api is the lack of options to replace him with. 2 cheaper options changed clubs (3 if you count Liddle )

Kenny works in his role now, Luke is unproven and that is the options we are left with.

Kiks got a huge offer which was fair enough but the guys we ran with with Sorensen and Smith don't offer the same attack
 

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