Sharks cap superthread - latest: NRL clears Flanagan to assistant coach from 2020

[coolumsharkie]

Want to violate the salary cap and get away with it? Easy! Blow the cap and keep it secret past the end of the current season. It’s not that difficult. Whether the initial Integrity Unit of one retired Easts winger or the current 12 person posse the NRL audit has never been the agent of discovery of salary cap violations.

Canterbury got mixed up with an investigation by Fairfax of council shenanigans.

Manly’s difficulties ongoing for months now with little revealed, came about from a police investigation into NRL match fixing. Melbourne was revealed by the club after a management change. And all faced some level of punishment.

It appears that if you now retrospectivey confess, of your own volition, that you have cheated you are to be treated like George Washington when he fessed up to his irate Dad that he had cut down the cherry tree. The myth has it that the Dad took George tenderly into his arms and said: “My son, that you should not be afraid to tell the truth is more to me than a thousand salary cap violations” And he let him off with only the lightest tap on the wrist.

It seems that when your CEO position relies on keeping sweet with the clubs it pays to be benevolent leader when clubs break the rules.

Total hypocrisy.

The Sharks should have the book thrown at them. And have their premiership stripped. They did the exact same thing as Melbourne

Either strip the Sharks of their premiership or reinstate Melbourne's 2007 and 2009 premierships. You cant have it both ways.

Amazes me how bored some people get. How does one come to have so much free time and waste it writing sentence after sentence of bland inferences?

 

[taipan]

Amazes me how bored some people get. How does one come to have so much free time and waste it writing sentence after sentence of bland inferences?

He is carrying on like a lover scorned.

 

[Danish]

I’m by no means a math genius either but isn’t the 2018 comp still going?

Finals bonus’ etc are yet to be paid.

They have until 31st October to use the cap.

NRL financial is 1st November to 31st October

Which proves my point.

Toddy is playing silly buggers trying to make out like the sharks are miles under the cap.... when in actual fact he is just talking about how much they’ve reportedly paid out this year up to this point. Absolutely all clubs would be well under the cap right now under those rules with another 2 months of salaries and finals bonuses to pay.

I suppose if this story came out in March, toddy would have announced the sharks as $7 million under the cap?

 

[franklin2323]

In 2015... The Sharks claimed to be under the cap. As did Parra who were cheating it. It is a stupid comment from Greenberg

 

[shaggs]

Which proves my point.

Toddy is playing silly buggers trying to make out like the sharks are miles under the cap.... when in actual fact he is just talking about how much they’ve reportedly paid out this year up to this point. Absolutely all clubs would be well under the cap right now under those rules with another 2 months of salaries and finals bonuses to pay.

I suppose if this story came out in March, toddy would have announced the sharks as $7 million under the cap?

Clubs theses days are leaving some in the cap to pay semi final bonuses, first grade bonuses rep bonuses etc.

Matt prior would have had a rep bonus in the contract but no one really thought that would be needed.
It makes no sense to not your entire cap out in base salary and then take bonuses from the next years.

500k is a lot though. That wouldn’t all be bonuses. I’m sure clubs have been caught before with nothing left to pay the extras

 

[MilkShark]

Want to violate the salary cap and get away with it? Easy! Blow the cap and keep it secret past the end of the current season. It’s not that difficult. Whether the initial Integrity Unit of one retired Easts winger or the current 12 person posse the NRL audit has never been the agent of discovery of salary cap violations.

Canterbury got mixed up with an investigation by Fairfax of council shenanigans.

Manly’s difficulties ongoing for months now with little revealed, came about from a police investigation into NRL match fixing. Melbourne was revealed by the club after a management change. And all faced some level of punishment.

It appears that if you now retrospectivey confess, of your own volition, that you have cheated you are to be treated like George Washington when he fessed up to his irate Dad that he had cut down the cherry tree. The myth has it that the Dad took George tenderly into his arms and said: “My son, that you should not be afraid to tell the truth is more to me than a thousand salary cap violations” And he let him off with only the lightest tap on the wrist.

It seems that when your CEO position relies on keeping sweet with the clubs it pays to be benevolent leader when clubs break the rules.

Total hypocrisy.

The Sharks should have the book thrown at them. And have their premiership stripped. They did the exact same thing as Melbourne

Either strip the Sharks of their premiership or reinstate Melbourne's 2007 and 2009 premierships. You cant have it both ways.

Not sure if serious

If serious, lol

 

[taipan]

Want to violate the salary cap and get away with it? Easy! Blow the cap and keep it secret past the end of the current season. It’s not that difficult. Whether the initial Integrity Unit of one retired Easts winger or the current 12 person posse the NRL audit has never been the agent of discovery of salary cap violations.

Canterbury got mixed up with an investigation by Fairfax of council shenanigans.

Manly’s difficulties ongoing for months now with little revealed, came about from a police investigation into NRL match fixing. Melbourne was revealed by the club after a management change. And all faced some level of punishment.

It appears that if you now retrospectivey confess, of your own volition, that you have cheated you are to be treated like George Washington when he fessed up to his irate Dad that he had cut down the cherry tree. The myth has it that the Dad took George tenderly into his arms and said: “My son, that you should not be afraid to tell the truth is more to me than a thousand salary cap violations” And he let him off with only the lightest tap on the wrist.

It seems that when your CEO position relies on keeping sweet with the clubs it pays to be benevolent leader when clubs break the rules.

Total hypocrisy.

The Sharks should have the book thrown at them. And have their premiership stripped. They did the exact same thing as Melbourne

Either strip the Sharks of their premiership or reinstate Melbourne's 2007 and 2009 premierships. You cant have it both ways.

LOL.You'd be the judge who'd consider a shoplifter on equal footing to armed robbery with menaces.

 

[Danish]

Clubs theses days are leaving some in the cap to pay semi final bonuses, first grade bonuses rep bonuses etc.

Matt prior would have had a rep bonus in the contract but no one really thought that would be needed.
It makes no sense to not your entire cap out in base salary and then take bonuses from the next years.

500k is a lot though. That wouldn’t all be bonuses. I’m sure clubs have been caught before with nothing left to pay the extras

That would all be accounted for in the documentation submitted to the NRL to show their cap compliance for 2018.

I agree also that $500K of finals bonuses would be highly unlikely, since that would mean not making the finals and leaving those bonuses unpaid would make a team not compliant.

The sharks also signed Woods mid-season too, although I am assuming the dogs are pretty much paying his entire 2018 salary.


Fact is, no team is allowed to be $500k under that cap according to the current CBA - teams must spend 95% of the $9.1 mill cap every season.

So Todd’s statement was either outright wrong, or deliberately deceptive I.e. only taking into account payments up to this point of the season without actually saying so

 

[Miller was a legend]

How many clubs have been fined for restrospectice cap breaches? Many is the answer if you need clarification.
Thought they got it right I guess

In 2015... The Sharks claimed to be under the cap. As did Parra who were cheating it. It is a stupid comment from Greenberg

 

[squiddy]

So, current state of Sharks rorting...
- At least $250K (so far) in suspect payments made to players outside the cap in 2017 found. Still investigating.
- Payments were made to a club official and then passed on to players. MASSIVE deception.

.

Oh yeah where have these 2 points been confirmed ?

That’s right Kent said that , some source Kent is - must be true

 

[Miller was a legend]

That would all be accounted for in the documentation submitted to the NRL to show their cap compliance for 2018.

I agree also that $500K of finals bonuses would be highly unlikely, since that would mean not making the finals and leaving those bonuses unpaid would make a team not compliant.

The sharks also signed Woods mid-season too, although I am assuming the dogs are pretty much paying his entire 2018 salary.


Fact is, no team is allowed to be $500k under that cap according to the current CBA - teams must spend 95% of the $9.1 mill cap every season.

So Todd’s statement was either outright wrong, or deliberately deceptive I.e. only taking into account payments up to this point of the season without actually saying so

So they need to spend $50k on bonuses to then be under 95%?

 

[taipan]

Which proves my point.

Toddy is playing silly buggers trying to make out like the sharks are miles under the cap.... when in actual fact he is just talking about how much they’ve reportedly paid out this year up to this point. Absolutely all clubs would be well under the cap right now under those rules with another 2 months of salaries and finals bonuses to pay.

I suppose if this story came out in March, toddy would have announced the sharks as $7 million under the cap?

He's doing what any proper CEO would say,reassuring fans and others the club just like the others are under the cap this year.If the Sharks were not ,they would be banned from being involved in the semis I would suggest.The new CEO Russell has ensured this is not the case.
All clubs are not well under the cap, judging by his comments,but yes most.

If the story had come out in March,he'd be referring only to the prior seasons.The reason ,he can say it now with any degree of certainty, is due all players have been signed on by clubs via the deadline this year.And it's only the bonuses ,players coming into 1st grade result of injury,that the gap is available.So the $7 comment is a ludicrous analogy.
And the 95% must be used by the end of the NRL financial year, which is not now.It could be done the day after the G/F is needs be.
Greenberg has his share of faults, but geez he's spelling out where the NRL is at ,re caps this year to clear uncertainty, in the wake of the current dramas.
Imagine if he came out and suggested there were a couple of other clubs under investigation?And left it at that?

 

[Danish]

He's doing what any proper CEO would say,reassuring fans and others the club just like the others are under the cap this year.If the Sharks were not ,they would be banned from being involved in the semis I would suggest.The new CEO Russell has ensured this is not the case.
All clubs are not well under the cap, judging by his comments,but yes most.

If the story had come out in March,he'd be referring only to the prior seasons.The reason ,he can say it now with any degree of certainty, is due all players have been signed on by clubs via the deadline this year.And it's only the bonuses ,players coming into 1st grade result of injury,that the gap is available.So the $7 comment is a ludicrous analogy.

A normal CEO would just say they are cap compliant for 2018.

A moron CEO would say they are $500K under the cap.... which actually makes them not compliant under the terms of the current CBA.

The sharks it seems have since made statements that they will spend their entire cap this year, so toddles was indeed pulling figures out his ass

 

[Miller was a legend]

A normal CEO would just say they are cap compliant for 2018.

A moron CEO would say they are $500K under the cap.... which actually makes them not compliant under the terms of the current CBA.

The sharks it seems have since made statements that they will spend their entire cap this year, so toddles was indeed pulling figures out his ass

FFS they have until 31 Oct to be under 95%

How hard is this to understand

 

[Storms Light Fire]

Unless supporters of almost every team want their records and premierships wiped, we need to understand that Every Team CHEATS. There is plenty of precedent to inform us of the relative severity of breaches and appropriate punishments.

Here is a table of all known salary cap breaches and these are only the ones who have fessed up (usually because a change in administration) or some third party deal has become a snag and bit the respective team in the backside.

Here they are ranked as a percentage of the salary cap at the time, for instances where the value of the breach is public

1 Canterbury 28% 2002

2 Canterbury 22% 2001


3 New Zealand 27% 2004

4 New Zealand 16% 2005

5 Canterbury 16% 2000

6 Penrith 16% 2000

7 Cronulla 16% 2015, 2016, 2017 TBD

8 Melbourne 15% 2009

9 Melbourne 15% 2008

10 Manly 15% 2013

11 Roosters 15% 2002

12 Manly 15% 2015

13 Roosters 15% 2003

14 Newcastle 15% 2002

15 Canterbury 15% 2004

16 Melbourne 14% 2007

17 Brisbane 14% 2002

19 Brisbane 12% 2007

20 Wests 9% 2010

21 Canberra 9% 2005

22 Parramatta 9% 2014

23 Parramatta 8% 2015

24 Brisbane 8% 2006

25 Parramatta 7% 2016

26 Parramatta 7% 2017

27 Newcastle 7% 1998

28 Newcastle 7% 1999

29 North Queensland 6% 2000

30 Manly 6% 2012




Interesting to note that Newcastle was 7% over the cap in 1998 and 1999, and 5% over in 2002. A total of $725,000. No competition points deducted, no premiership vacated and total fines of $244,000. Maybe in light of your feelings on the topic, the 2001 premiership should be reviewed? Or more particularly the Melbourne Storm premierships should be reinstated as they clearly were no worse or no better than other teams who have cheated the salary cap and won premierships.



Most recently Manly exceeded the cap by $1.5m over 5 years, and Parramatta by $3m over 4 years.

 

[Miller was a legend]

Unless supporters of almost every team want their records and premierships wiped, we need to understand that Every Team CHEATS. There is plenty of precedent to inform us of the relative severity of breaches and appropriate punishments.

Here is a table of all known salary cap breaches and these are only the ones who have fessed up (usually because a change in administration) or some third party deal has become a snag and bit the respective team in the backside.

Here they are ranked as a percentage of the salary cap at the time, for instances where the value of the breach is public

1 Canterbury 28% 2002

2 Canterbury 22% 2001


3 New Zealand 27% 2004

4 New Zealand 16% 2005

5 Canterbury 16% 2000

6 Penrith 16% 2000

7 Cronulla 16% 2015, 2016, 2017 TBD

8 Melbourne 15% 2009

9 Melbourne 15% 2008

10 Manly 15% 2013

11 Roosters 15% 2002

12 Manly 15% 2015

13 Roosters 15% 2003

14 Newcastle 15% 2002

15 Canterbury 15% 2004

16 Manly 14% 2016

17 Brisbane 14% 2002

19 Brisbane 12% 2007

20 Wests 9% 2010

21 Canberra 9% 2005

22 Parramatta 9% 2014

23 Parramatta 8% 2015

24 Brisbane 8% 2006

25 Parramatta 7% 2016

26 Parramatta 7% 2017

27 Newcastle 7% 1998

28 Newcastle 7% 1999

29 North Queensland 6% 2000

30 Manly 6% 2012




Interesting to note that Newcastle was 7% over the cap in 1998 and 1999, and 5% over in 2002. A total of $725,000. No competition points deducted, no premiership vacated and total fines of $244,000. Maybe in light of your feelings on the topic, the 2001 premiership should be reviewed? Or more particularly the Melbourne Storm premierships should be reinstated as they clearly were no worse or no better than other teams who have cheated the salary cap and won premierships.



Most recently Manly exceeded the cap by $1.5m over 5 years, and Parramatta by $3m over 4 years.

Boo hoo, have a sook in you column or on 360 you sad sack of shit

 

[Danish]

FFS they have until 31 Oct to be under 95%

How hard is this to understand

It’s not.

But teams have to submit their cap compliance long before oct 31. In fact they need to show their cap compliance before the season even starts usually, so the NRL can approve contracts when signing players for upcoming seasons.

Anyone listening to Greenberg would have to take his information as meaning the sharks are $500k over the entire season. Not just as a running total to this point, which is completely meaningless.

 

[siv]

The cap jumped by $2 mil this year

It was a abnormal increase on past years

Any cap penalty needs to be handed down on Mar 1 or Jun 1 or Aug 1 or Nov 1. Lock in a timetable

But a team breaching the cap by $100k plus in a trophy winning year has their trophies taken away

For teams to play for points after a penalty - they must shed players

You also cannot defer payments to futute seasons once caught

Penalties
- 1 point for every $25k breach
- salary cap reduced immeduate by double the breach for 5 years
- fine of double the breach - which is used to compensate the stood down player/s

 

[Miller was a legend]

It’s not.

But teams have to submit their cap compliance long before oct 31. In fact they need to show their cap compliance before the season even starts usually, so the NRL can approve contracts when signing players for upcoming seasons.

Anyone listening to Greenberg would have to take his information as meaning the sharks are $500k over the entire season. Not just as a running total to this point, which is completely meaningless.

So you are saying if players have bonus awards in their contract that only take effect in the finals this is already counted in the cap before it’s known if the team makes finals etc.

Righto

 

[Danish]

So you are saying if players have bonus awards in their contract that only take effect in the finals this is already counted in the cap before it’s known if the team makes finals etc.

Righto

of course they are. Why wouldn’t they be?

Clubs have to prove salary cap compliance before the season even starts. This means showing the NRL their entire forecast for salary cap spend, taking into account any potential bonus payments that may or may not hit. Even rep payments are expected to be accounted for.