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Sheens

Tigerm

First Grade
Messages
9,883
The thing about Elliott is its not that he's a bad coach as such, more that people thought he had far better squads than he did. Our squad is easily the best one he'd walk into with.

That said, there's probably more credentialled candidates out there if Sheens does go.
Agree with this, I don't know much about him, but Elliot has always appeared to be a thinker of new ideas for the game??? So him or Folkes would do me.

Just on the Panthers, is it coincidence that they make there announcement about hunting for a new coach now, just before Sheens was to sign, & did Sheens not sign with us a couple of weeks ago, because he was in discussions with the Panthers?
 

aids

Bench
Messages
3,994
Elliot? No thanks.

Has a Fitzhenry-like obsession with utter shit like Adrian Purtell.


Spurty Purts!!!




Folkes would be the logical option, i don't know much about Peter Gentle, but they like flashing his "titantron" video at the games.
 

Magpies Forever

Juniors
Messages
2,208
No way should Elliott get the gig. I'm all for Sheens trying his hand elsewhere (he cant realistically do anymore for WT) but WT should competitively look for coaching options and select the best for the job. Elliott is definitely not the best coach going around, his record is moderate at best.
 

Tigers Tale

Juniors
Messages
1,417
I hope Sheens accepts the offer to go to Penrith and I hope we don't take on Elliott or Folkes. I respect Folkes for what he has done with player conditioning but at the end of the day I just don't think he is the one.

Originally I was totally against Nathan Brown however I have started to warm to his way of coaching, especially since he has matured. I think his defensive patterns combined with attack work well together. He was a thinker as a player and I think now, with age, this is reflected in his coaching.

If we get a new coach I think we need to allow him to rebuild (maybe restructure is a better word) this team. I know we have some very good young talent on the books but I haven't seen them getting 'blooded' during this injury crisis, all I have seen is people shuffled between positions they simply shouldn't be in. The Bronco's are in the position they are now because they threw young promising kids into first grade.

There are quite a few players at this club that have peaked in their game and just can't seem to go to that next level. While they are loyal players they just can't seem to lift when they really need to.

I feel Brown can attract or bring new blood from England. We didn't get Graham, but Brown will know some of the young up and coming Poms that he can get out here for a song. The point being there are no high class forwards (or centres) on our market to buy, so maybe, he can bring some Poms or ex NRL players with him. Ex NRL players are not all old 'has beens' as was the case once, they are only there because they were forced out by the salary cap.

Just my thoughts....

I just feel the coach and some of the players at the Wests Tigers are stale and if Sheens does leave it is time to put a broom through the place.
 

Magpies Forever

Juniors
Messages
2,208
I hope Sheens accepts the offer to go to Penrith and I hope we don't take on Elliott or Folkes. I respect Folkes for what he has done with player conditioning but at the end of the day I just don't think he is the one.

Originally I was totally against Nathan Brown however I have started to warm to his way of coaching, especially since he has matured. I think his defensive patterns combined with attack work well together. He was a thinker as a player and I think now, with age, this is reflected in his coaching.

If we get a new coach I think we need to allow him to rebuild (maybe restructure is a better word) this team. I know we have some very good young talent on the books but I haven't seen them getting 'blooded' during this injury crisis, all I have seen is people shuffled between positions they simply shouldn't be in. The Bronco's are in the position they are now because they threw young promising kids into first grade.

There are quite a few players at this club that have peaked in their game and just can't seem to go to that next level. While they are loyal players they just can't seem to lift when they really need to.

I feel Brown can attract or bring new blood from England. We didn't get Graham, but Brown will know some of the young up and coming Poms that he can get out here for a song. The point being there are no high class forwards (or centres) on our market to buy, so maybe, he can bring some Poms or ex NRL players with him. Ex NRL players are not all old 'has beens' as was the case once, they are only there because they were forced out by the salary cap.

Just my thoughts....

I just feel the coach and some of the players at the Wests Tigers are stale and if Sheens does leave it is time to put a broom through the place.

Agree, Brown may be the best option but would like to see who else puts up their hand.

One thing is for sure- Sheens and WT (both players and management) have become too comfortable together and need the shakeup that a new coach and attitude brings.

Time to move on Sheens, you can do no more- thank you and bye.
 

Tigersmurf

Juniors
Messages
10
To say that Brown could bring in kids from the UK at minimal expense is very questionable. Why would a young kid want to travel half way around the world and live in a foreign country on a small salary? I dont think Burgess Junior is on minor cash. widdop is the only other I can think of and his whole family came too I believe.

Mind you I think Brown is worth a shot. He would have an excellent roster at his disposal. I support Folkes but am concerned that his strict discipline could turn players away.

I expect that Sheens is already gone...he has had plenty of opportunity to sign. Furthermore I believe this speculation will significantly limit any chance we had of signing Blair. Hope I am wrong.
 

Tigerm

First Grade
Messages
9,883
To say that Brown could bring in kids from the UK at minimal expense is very questionable. Why would a young kid want to travel half way around the world and live in a foreign country on a small salary? I dont think Burgess Junior is on minor cash. widdop is the only other I can think of and his whole family came too I believe.

Mind you I think Brown is worth a shot. He would have an excellent roster at his disposal. I support Folkes but am concerned that his strict discipline could turn players away.

I expect that Sheens is already gone...he has had plenty of opportunity to sign. Furthermore I believe this speculation will significantly limit any chance we had of signing Blair. Hope I am wrong.
I agree, Sheens has probably done the deal, Panthers would have this done a while ago, before they sacked Elliott & Sheens refusal to sign, would be strange coincidence.
Not sure I agree about Folkes, just need to get consistency & win a premiership & they would be knocking on our door? I mentioned earlier, I have never been hot on Brown, so for me, either Elliot or Folkes would be OK. But anyone to make us consistant, the boys should be able to do the rest.
 

Magpies Forever

Juniors
Messages
2,208
Possibilities:

Brown- initially rough ride as a NRL coach with St George but I suspect too much baggage there as an ex player. Been good at Huddersfield.

Folkes- been at WT now for a season or so as conditioning coach. Familiar with players and tactics. Previously good record with Bulldogs.

Outsiders but possible:

Steve Georgialis, Michael Potter.

Oh god no:

Gentles, Simmons, Stuart, Elliott, Taylor.

Pity we missed out on:

Kearney.
 
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Tigerm

First Grade
Messages
9,883
Possibilities:

Brown- initially rough ride as a NRL coach with St George but I suspect too much baggage there as an ex player. Been good at Huddersfield.

Folkes- been at WT now for a season or so as conditioning coach. Familiar with players and tactics. Previously good record with Bulldogs.

Outsiders but possible:

Steve Georgialis, Michael Potter.

Oh god no:

Gentles, Simmons, Stuart, Elliott, Taylor.

Pity we missed out on:

Kearney.
Or Super Coach??? Probably couldn't have afforded him anyway.

What is Daniel Anderson doing? He doesn't seem afraid to tell the players what they are doing wrong?

Just a thought, Meninga is looking to coach again? Must have good man management abilities, maybe bring a few Qlders with him?

Who ever it is, I hope they don't put them on long term contracts without KPI's?
 
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gronkathon

First Grade
Messages
9,266
Need a cannon fodder coach willing to take the fall for a seasons struggle and put the hierachy back i place properly
 

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
To say that Brown could bring in kids from the UK at minimal expense is very questionable. Why would a young kid want to travel half way around the world and live in a foreign country on a small salary? I dont think Burgess Junior is on minor cash. widdop is the only other I can think of and his whole family came too I believe.
Widdop and his family have been living in Australia for quite a while. He didn't come to Australia to play Rugby League either. Storm only picked him up after seeing him play in some outer-melbourne district comp.

Mind you I think Brown is worth a shot. He would have an excellent roster at his disposal. I support Folkes but am concerned that his strict discipline could turn players away.
Brown is more defence oriented with his coaching, which is what we need. Our players are naturally gifted attacking players. He's also reasonably strict without being a nazi. I'd prefer him tbh. Folkes would be a distant, but clear second.

I expect that Sheens is already gone...he has had plenty of opportunity to sign. Furthermore I believe this speculation will significantly limit any chance we had of signing Blair. Hope I am wrong.
Do we really need another backrower though? I'd like an actual prop, not a back rower at prop.
 
Messages
3,320
Remember the last CEO tried to place KPI's on Sheens and ended up getting fired.I may be wrong but it appears no coaches or players are being held accountable at the WT for the position we are in .Injuries aside, this is a part of our current problem at the WT,no accountability for selections,form or game plans.
 

magpie_man

Juniors
Messages
1,973
I think browny would be a good fit post-sheens; he's young and successful (in the esl) and would bring a breath of fresh air through the club which is sorely needed at this point in time.
I have concerns about folkes's ability to work with "gen y" players...
 

super_coach

First Grade
Messages
5,061
People may think Iam mad but I would even consider Sticky Stuart. Everyone knows we can play attacking football but we still struggle with the hard stuff and thats what Ricky coaches. Also he seem to be able to attract players. For me Brown first choice, sticky second.

Than again our own super coach may decide to stay on who knows, but one things for certain is his timing is all wrong,we are in hole and he lets this thing drag on, he dosnt get any points from me very unprofessional
 

Mattc

Juniors
Messages
1,241
Brown always worked well with the young players coming through at the Dragons.
In fact, a lot of the current squad came through in the Brown Era, and he does have a good eye for talent
His problem was always getting the best out of the senior players in the team.
With a couple of years out of the NRL, I am sure he would have overcome that problem. I would have taken him back at Saints.
I think he would do well with the Tigers.
 

Tigerm

First Grade
Messages
9,883
An insert from a Paul Kent article. Some interesting points & perhaps why Sheens will go?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/n...eague-as-bennett/story-fn7sho5b-1226046640325

Much of the incentive for Bennett to go to Newcastle, according to the amateur sleuths who ran thorough investigations into such things, was the incentive to become the first coach in history to win premierships at three different clubs. That, and Bennett's brother Bob said so.
It is one of the few records left for Bennett, who just wins.
But if Sheens goes to Penrith he might just beat him to it.
Sheens has won premierships at Canberra in 1989, 1990 and 1994 and then again at Wests Tigers in 2005.
He is the only coach besides Bennett coaching in the NRL today with premierships at two different clubs.
The figure thrown up for Sheens is $2 million for four years.
If that's right, the Panthers should wear a mask when they push the contract in front of Sheens.
Players don't win premierships any more, coaches do.
For many years there existed the myth of the super coach. It went that you bought the best coach and he went on and won you premierships, except it was a myth built on dust.
It was rugby league's attempt to look professional and match the overseas leagues such as the NFL and Premier League soccer. The truth was the best coaches were at the richest clubs, where they bought the best players who won the premiership.
Sheens himself was a victim of Super Coach Syndrome.
After coaching Canberra he was paid an island to take the job in North Queensland in the Super League of 1997.
The stay at the Cowboys was nothing but a long, slow walk down a long, dry gulch. The club finished 10th, 16th, 16th and 14th in Sheens' four full seasons at the club, the small print revealing that his highest placed 10th finish coming in a 10-team comp.
I wrote at the time that, by this point, football had clearly passed Sheens by. It was not one of my finer moments.
As it turned out, Sheens was ahead of the game. The tightening of salary cap rules was terrific news for the coaches who could actually coach. The ones who couldn't, not so much.
Sheens left North Queensland and with the NRL discovering more and more salary cap loopholes, he headed to the Wests Tigers who were a rabble and in need of a senior coach with a little steel in his delivery.
The Tigers had finished no better than 10th in their four seasons, but more than that they were the kind of club that seemed to have been let out for the weekend.
Sheens changed all that.
With the salary cap evening out the talent like never before, Sheens showed the value in coaching.
He rebuilt the Tigers into what they are today, with some of the brightest talent in the game. They are a little different from the ultra-consistent sides such as St George Illawarra and Melbourne, but come finals time there is no team more dangerous.
Sheens showed that, in the age of the salary cap, coaches win premierships, not players. This is exactly why the Tigers are fighting to save Sheens. Why would they let this man go?
Sheens, 60, is the second oldest coach in the NRL.
Bennett, 61, is the oldest. With Brian Smith, the game's three most experienced coaches were still alive a week out from last year's grand final.
With so much thrust on finding energetic young coaches these days, these three have shown you don't only have to grow old coaching rugby league, you can mature.
All three have rebuilt, regenerated, reinvigorated their clubs.
That's what they do.
The Knights have acknowledged as much by paying Bennett an entire coal seam for his next three years.
Sheens is worth as much.
 
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