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Should Mary be sacked?

Should Mary be saked?


  • Total voters
    148
  • Poll closed .

Minh

First Grade
Messages
8,858
Thanks guys, FB and Trusaint. My support for Mary after round 8 was something like 70 to 75%, he had a golden opportunity last week but wrecked it. Those guys can say and believe what they like it's a footy forum but if you have one particular poster saying the coach looks like a penis that's way out of line and shows an underlying hate beyond the footy field/performance. Mary must have run over this guy with his jetski or something I don't know.
Anyway Mary's rep has taken a hit, one week is a long time in football, calling for a coach's sacking is nothing new. My support for Mary is now around 55% and the tide could turn if performances dont improve, he can't rest on the laurels of making the finals last year. As for Tony Smith, I have long been a big fan and if he was our next coach I'd be very happy.
 

St Georgio

Juniors
Messages
2,283
Thanks guys, FB and Trusaint. My support for Mary after round 8 was something like 70 to 75%, he had a golden opportunity last week but wrecked it. Those guys can say and believe what they like it's a footy forum but if you have one particular poster saying the coach looks like a penis that's way out of line and shows an underlying hate beyond the footy field/performance. Mary must have run over this guy with his jetski or something I don't know.
Anyway Mary's rep has taken a hit, one week is a long time in football, calling for a coach's sacking is nothing new. My support for Mary is now around 55% and the tide could turn if performances dont improve, he can't rest on the laurels of making the finals last year. As for Tony Smith, I have long been a big fan and if he was our next coach I'd be very happy.

Yes Tony is would probably be well suited @ the Dragons, this is the type of coach we should be seeking, a guy who has done his time over a long period time in England with success, the blueprint missing is have a degree in Teaching, but still worth a go, not ex player waterboys!
 

Minh

First Grade
Messages
8,858
Yes Tony is would probably be well suited @ the Dragons, this is the type of coach we should be seeking, a guy who has done his time over a long period time in England with success, the blueprint missing is have a degree in Teaching, but still worth a go, not ex player waterboys!

The club should have looked to sign a coach of this calibre the last time around, hopefully if the next time arrives they will look at him.
 

St Georgio

Juniors
Messages
2,283
The club should have looked to sign a coach of this calibre the last time around, hopefully if the next time arrives they will look at him.
From memory I think Tony Smith really wanted to stay at Warrington unfinished business there, but a season and half of Mary and same for Smithy, a time for change might be well suited for all concerned!
Unless Mary can pull a rabbit out of hat, I am wishing for 1 of the Smithy Brothers to take over for 2017!
 

Steve timpson

Juniors
Messages
203
I am with you Minh.....job is his until round 26 at least. I don't want Mary sacked unless someone with outstanding credentials is employed to replace him. Someone like Tony Smith, for instance.

And to the blimpheads who have been giving it to Minh for voicing his opinion.....I daresay his opinion, that Mary sees out this year at least, has a much better chance of being how it is than yours does. :p


Well guys, you are entitled to your view, for sure.

Tell me this though, what do you suggest if we keep Mary and we end up say....13th.

Or lets say in vicinity of 12th - 14th.

Come September, Mary is still in the job... because you guys believe he should be till round 26.

Suddenly, season 2017 is then just months away.....Plans regarding what players to keep, on what contracts, for what dollars.... AND what potential new players to approach for 2017 would all be done by Mary, and the current coaching team.

I do not trust Mary or the current coaching team to make good decisions on any of the above!

Based on your beliefs, Mary staying till the end of the year, regardless whether we finish 16th, 15th, 14th...whatever.... will ensure 2017 is also unsuccessful ....and most likely impact heavily on 2018.

Really, are you willing to risk that outcome?

I believe a final decision has to be made by the mid July, though I prefer he goes now.

For Mary to stay till round 26, we must be in the Top 8 mid July, not 2 - 8 points behind 8th, but inside the top 8 ...by at least 2 wins.

If we are, fair enough for Mary to stay.

If we are not, by mid July, Mary has to go.... so the new coach can plan for 2017 from July onwards.

My belief is Mary has had almost 2 years now....This is his team, last year we could not score points, and this year we cannot score points, and our Defence is getting worse.

Less scoring points, less tries, longest losing streak in our history, most halves with no tries in our history, least line breaks, least try assists, what more do you want to see before he goes?

The surest and most accurate prediction of future success.... is history, unless something dramatically changes ....history tends to repeat itself!

Our team scores less points, plays boring footy, our coach talks with no passion or ownership or results, he makes comments that seem to suggest he thinks we are going ok, our coach talks with no vision for the future...and constantly selects players in positions even us amateurs say 'What the hell'!?

No player will want to come near us, crowds will drop to under 9,000....8,000....

I prefer he goes now, its too high risk for him to stay.

He has had almost 2 years.....and we have hardly progressed.
 

Steve timpson

Juniors
Messages
203
I'm just glad we signed Bennett for his emotionally charged, highly animated conversations !


For goodness sakes, if you are successful, it is OK to be boring, or / and non animated.

But you sure as hell better be successful!!

If you are non animated, don't take ownership for results, pick players out of positions....and you are boring as hell......now that is different!

Ask Martin Luther King and JFK what some passionate talk can do to win a crowd over!

Look at Darius Boyd since he started showing passion in his conversations.....now more likeable, attracts more people around him, brings better karma, and IS playing better than ever!
 

St Georgio

Juniors
Messages
2,283
Well guys, you are entitled to your view, for sure.

Tell me this though, what do you suggest if we keep Mary and we end up say....13th.

Or lets say in vicinity of 12th - 14th.

Come September, Mary is still in the job... because you guys believe he should be till round 26.

Suddenly, season 2017 is then just months away.....Plans regarding what players to keep, on what contracts, for what dollars.... AND what potential new players to approach for 2017 would all be done by Mary, and the current coaching team.

I do not trust Mary or the current coaching team to make good decisions on any of the above!

Based on your beliefs, Mary staying till the end of the year, regardless whether we finish 16th, 15th, 14th...whatever.... will ensure 2017 is also unsuccessful ....and most likely impact heavily on 2018.

Really, are you willing to risk that outcome?

I believe a final decision has to be made by the mid July, though I prefer he goes now.

For Mary to stay till round 26, we must be in the Top 8 mid July, not 2 - 8 points behind 8th, but inside the top 8 ...by at least 2 wins.

If we are, fair enough for Mary to stay.

If we are not, by mid July, Mary has to go.... so the new coach can plan for 2017 from July onwards.

My belief is Mary has had almost 2 years now....This is his team, last year we could not score points, and this year we cannot score points, and our Defence is getting worse.

Less scoring points, less tries, longest losing streak in our history, most halves with no tries in our history, least line breaks, least try assists, what more do you want to see before he goes?

The surest and most accurate prediction of future success.... is history, unless something dramatically changes ....history tends to repeat itself!

Our team scores less points, plays boring footy, our coach talks with no passion or ownership or results, he makes comments that seem to suggest he thinks we are going ok, our coach talks with no vision for the future...and constantly selects players in positions even us amateurs say 'What the hell'!?

No player will want to come near us, crowds will drop to under 9,000....8,000....

I prefer he goes now, its too high risk for him to stay.

He has had almost 2 years.....and we have hardly progressed.

Who would you like to see as the next coach?
 

Fingerbang

Bench
Messages
2,587
Come September, Mary is still in the job... because you guys believe he should be till round 26.

- No, it might come as a shock to you....but if Mary is still our coach after round 26, it won't be because we believe he should be. Just as he won't be sacked because the majority of our fans want him sacked. As I said....I am all for moving him on now, but only for a well credentialed replacement.



Really, are you willing to risk that outcome?

- Again, how is it any risk to me?



he makes comments that seem to suggest he thinks we are going ok
We were going okay a week ago....4/4 with one of the hardest draws.
 

Steve timpson

Juniors
Messages
203
Who would you like to see as the next coach?


If I had a wish list, it would be Hassler first, because he bring a hard edge.

I think we need a 'Dogs of War' mentality to toughen us up in both attack and defence.

I personally believe we need to show some fierce aggression, within the rules for sure,
but barely within.... would sit fine with me for the next 12 months or so....to win back respect.

Dogs have the mentality, you hit me, I will hit you....and maybe I will hit you.... even if you don't hit me.

However, they also show a lot of skill.

Sure, they get beaten sometimes, but hell, they are a lot closer to Broncos and Cowboys than we are ever likely to be under Mary.

If that cannot be achieved, Smith from U.K.

Would be great to read more views ....including what main strengths other coaching options will bring to our club??
 

Steve timpson

Juniors
Messages
203
We were going okay a week ago....4/4 with one of the hardest draws.


I don't really agree with a broad statement like 4/4.

Dig a bit deeper.

Big losses including 30-2, 36-0, 26-0.

4/4 included almost no tries, 9 points a game, 1 line break I think it was.....

Losses are tolerable, even one loss by 20 occasionally.

But 30-2, 36-0, 26-0, hardly any tries.....I don't think we can just say 4/4 and all is well.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
15,995
We were going okay a week ago....4/4 with one of the hardest draws.

Here we go again. Just like in the Price era, people are extending the deadline even though Mary has proven to be no good.

Now is the time to get rid of Mary. Give the job to Cleary and let him get the team up for the 2016 season and beyond. I'd say its Cleary or Arthur depending on availability.
 

BennyV

Referee
Messages
24,085
To those who voted no - included Minh and Fingerang - why?!?!

I mean, he's been in the drivers seat for nearly 2 years, and in the passenger seat for a while before that and backseat (Cutters) for 2 years before that. What do you expect to see that isn't already obvious?

If you look at wins vs losses, he is average, at best. That includes Cutters. Is this the guy you want leading our club?
If you look deeper at his horrible, horrible records - the aforementioned longest losing streak and worst opening to a season, among others - it gets a lot worse for him.
Then there's the qualitative measures. His attitude towards loses, his benchmark of winning 50% by mid season, the excuses, the stubbornness, the simple fact that for a guy who claims to be a 'straight shooter' he hasn't once come out and said that our losses or our attack simply aren't good enough.

So what is it? Why does he deserve to not get sacked? What is it that you see in him that makes you think he is the actual guy to rebuild the club that's been rebuilding for 4 years?

Genuine question.
 

Dragonslayer

First Grade
Messages
7,817
Well guys, you are entitled to your view, for sure.

Tell me this though, what do you suggest if we keep Mary and we end up say....13th.

Or lets say in vicinity of 12th - 14th.

Come September, Mary is still in the job... because you guys believe he should be till round 26.

Suddenly, season 2017 is then just months away.....Plans regarding what players to keep, on what contracts, for what dollars.... AND what potential new players to approach for 2017 would all be done by Mary, and the current coaching team.

I do not trust Mary or the current coaching team to make good decisions on any of the above!

Based on your beliefs, Mary staying till the end of the year, regardless whether we finish 16th, 15th, 14th...whatever.... will ensure 2017 is also unsuccessful ....and most likely impact heavily on 2018.

Really, are you willing to risk that outcome?

I believe a final decision has to be made by the mid July, though I prefer he goes now.

For Mary to stay till round 26, we must be in the Top 8 mid July, not 2 - 8 points behind 8th, but inside the top 8 ...by at least 2 wins.

If we are, fair enough for Mary to stay.

If we are not, by mid July, Mary has to go.... so the new coach can plan for 2017 from July onwards.

My belief is Mary has had almost 2 years now....This is his team, last year we could not score points, and this year we cannot score points, and our Defence is getting worse.

Less scoring points, less tries, longest losing streak in our history, most halves with no tries in our history, least line breaks, least try assists, what more do you want to see before he goes?

The surest and most accurate prediction of future success.... is history, unless something dramatically changes ....history tends to repeat itself!

Our team scores less points, plays boring footy, our coach talks with no passion or ownership or results, he makes comments that seem to suggest he thinks we are going ok, our coach talks with no vision for the future...and constantly selects players in positions even us amateurs say 'What the hell'!?

No player will want to come near us, crowds will drop to under 9,000....8,000....

I prefer he goes now, its too high risk for him to stay.

He has had almost 2 years.....and we have hardly progressed.

I hear what your saying and agree with most of your comments.

The issues I see are these regarding Mary:
1. Replace Mary now - Won't happen.......the reason is he will use the excuse of injuries, suspensions, hard road trips etc, and we are equal 8th (percentage of course) and IF we beat the Raiders and a couple of results go our way we could be outright 8th after round 10.
2. Replace him after round 13 - Best scenario of it happening......IF we loose to the Raiders, Rabbits and then the Cowboys (during SOO) then I think the writing would be on the wall and would give the new coach time to influence the squad.
3. Replace him after round 17 - possibility of this happening.......after the bye in round 13 we play the Dogs, Storm Knights and the Eagles. A bad game against the lowly Knights would surely sound the death knell for Mary. However, if we bring in a new coach at this point, he would have to face the prospect of playing Titans and Tigers (good chance of winning those games) and then the Dogs, Broncos, Sharks, Roosters and Eels before the Knights in the last round.....tough initiation for a new coach IMO.
4. Replace him after the final round of the season.......most likely scenario given his contract is still until the end of 2017.

I think if they removed Mary and the season was lost, they would/should just appoint a caretaker (Demetriou) for the remainder of the season and go hunting for the best suited coach for St George. It looks like Cleary has been snapped up by the NRL for the remainder of the year, so he wouldn't be available anyway. Toovey is the next "available" coach, he wouldn't be too bad a fit IMO. As far as Smith, you have to wait in any case until the ESL season is finished, but if we are and he is interested then he could begin on their seasons completion.
 
Last edited:
Messages
17,055
Should he be sacked yes but will he the answer is simple no.

Why because the club has no guts and very little pride. They are happy to just glide along hopefully making the finals but if not make every excuse under the sun from injuries to having no money.

When you have a person like Doust who clearly doesn't give a rats arse about the fans and all his yes men who never question his leadership you really can't expect much in regards to vision for the future.

Mary needs to be moved on but he was put in place by management who really never look outside the cicrle of ex players and co except for Bennet and thats the real question why.

Imo they don't want an oustide person who is going to rock the boat or ask hey why are you making these decisions when clearly they are wrong and won't work.

I don't see Mary as a guy willing to demand more from Management he is another yes man and excuse maker.

Could you see the club hiring a Hasler who may ask for better players or wanting more home games at home venues instead of selling out to the NRL.

People may have to face the harsh reality the Dragons are not a mighty club anymore and may never be until the people in charge are gone and replaced with men with Vision and a bit of a backbone instead of the spineless cowards they are.
 

Steve timpson

Juniors
Messages
203
I hear what your saying and agree with most of your comments.

The issues I see are these regarding Mary:
1. Replace Mary now - Won't happen.......the reason is he will use the excuse of injuries, suspensions, hard road trips etc, and we are equal 8th (percentage of course) and IF we beat the Raiders and a couple of results go our way we could be outright 8th after round 10.
2. Replace him after round 13 - Best scenario of it happening......IF we loose to the Raiders, Rabbits and then the Cowboys (during SOO) then I think the writing would be on the wall and would give the new coach time to influence the squad.
3. Replace him after round 17 - possibility of this happening.......after the bye in round 13 we play the Dogs, Storm Knights and the Eagles. A bad game against the lowly Knights would surely sound the death knell for Mary. However, if we bring in a new coach at this point, he would have to face the prospect of playing Titans and Tigers (good chance of winning those games) and then the Dogs, Broncos, Sharks, Roosters and Eels before the Knights in the last round.....tough initiation for a new coach IMO.
4. Replace him after the final round of the season.......most likely scenario given his contract is still until the end of 2017.

I think if they removed Mary and the season was lost, they would/should just appoint a caretaker (Demetriou) for the remainder of the season and go hunting for the best suited coach for St George. It looks like Cleary has been snapped up by the NRL for the remainder of the year, so he wouldn't be available anyway. Toovey is the next "available" coach, he wouldn't be too bad a fit IMO. As far as Smith, you have to wait in any case until the ESL season is finished, but if we are and he is interested then he could begin on their seasons completion.


Perfect plan, 100% agree.
 

Dragons 09

Juniors
Messages
1,762
We were going okay a week ago....4/4 with one of the hardest draws.

The way i see it as a staunch "Mary must go" advocate is that we were a loooong way from going OK a week ago.

Storm 18 (currently sitting 3rd) Dragons 16 - Acceptable performance
Sharks 30 (4th) - Dragons 2 - Pathetic
Rabbits 6 (12th) - Dragons 8 - Very average and very lucky
Panthers 12 (8th) - Dragons 14 - Uninspiring
Cowboys 36 (1st) - Dragons 0 - Pathetic
Broncos 26 (2nd) - Dragons 0 - Pathetic
Titans 14 (13th) - Dragons 19 - Very average
Roosters 18 (15th) - Dragons 20 - Very average and very lucky


The highest placed team we beat is in 8th and by 2 points. The lowest placed team we beat is in 15th and by 2 points and both games were a bees penis from another 2 losses. Other than round 1, the 3 other teams we have played in the top 4 all lapped us.

Going "OK" should at least see us being competitive against top 8 sides and being convincing against bottom 8 sides, we are neither. You can dress a goat in a tuxedo if you like....but it's still a goat.

I respect your opinion, but 1 acceptable game from 9, is not OK to me.
 

Fingerbang

Bench
Messages
2,587
To those who voted no - included Minh and Fingerang - why?!?!

I mean, he's been in the drivers seat for nearly 2 years, and in the passenger seat for a while before that and backseat (Cutters) for 2 years before that. What do you expect to see that isn't already obvious?

If you look at wins vs losses, he is average, at best. That includes Cutters. Is this the guy you want leading our club?
If you look deeper at his horrible, horrible records - the aforementioned longest losing streak and worst opening to a season, among others - it gets a lot worse for him.
Then there's the qualitative measures. His attitude towards loses, his benchmark of winning 50% by mid season, the excuses, the stubbornness, the simple fact that for a guy who claims to be a 'straight shooter' he hasn't once come out and said that our losses or our attack simply aren't good enough.

So what is it? Why does he deserve to not get sacked? What is it that you see in him that makes you think he is the actual guy to rebuild the club that's been rebuilding for 4 years?

Genuine question.
Genuine answer.....you are also of the belief that keeping him or sacking him comes down to what we want. It doesn't.

Even if he does deserved to get sacked now, I believe it isn't going to happen. I never said he is the actual guy to rebuild the club/team. I did say I was all for moving him on now, IF a well credentialled replacement was signed. ST said Hasler, well guess what? He actually has a job right now. Maybe we could get him for next year, but certainly won't mid season now....unless Bulldogs cut him loose, like Manly did when he signed with Dogs.
 

Fingerbang

Bench
Messages
2,587
Here we go again. Just like in the Price era, people are extending the deadline even though Mary has proven to be no good.

Now is the time to get rid of Mary. Give the job to Cleary and let him get the team up for the 2016 season and beyond. I'd say its Cleary or Arthur depending on availability.
Sorry to upset you possm....but I never extended any deadline for Mary. That is Doustie's job.
 
Messages
17,055
Toovey or Cleary.

Arthur up until now did sfa with the Eels till they brought in players and guess what they cheated to do it.

Cleary got punted by Gould and you have to ask why.

Toovey got punted for a rookie coach again why.
 

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