Should St George Illawarra end their joint venture?

[muzby]

Trust Me St George would have survived if they has gone with Super league!

Based on...?

 

[Frank Facer]

Based on...?

Based on the fact that initially Super League wanted Saints as their Southern Sydney team, but we didn't join, so instead the enticed Cronulla to join. When the 2 comps called a truce, it was only ARL Sydney clubs and Illawarra, who were forced merge and no Super League Sydney clubs were forced to merge or forced into extinction, such as Souths who had to fight for their survival.

 

[Carlton]

We are discussing the 20 seasons post the last St George premiership as our mate Dennis believes that we were more successful in that period. I have simply taken the same time period post JV starting.

And if you wanted 21 seasons pre the JV you’d need to stop at 1978, so you couldn’t include the 1977 premiership..

And St George missed the finals in 1978 too..

No, you were discussing the 20 years and trying to manipulate the time frame so that we compared 11 years for St George and 20 years for St George Illawarra.

The JV was formed in 1998 therefore the 1977 Grand final win should be included.

 

[muzby]

Based on the fact that initially Super League wanted Saints as their Southern Sydney team, but we didn't join, so instead the enticed Cronulla to join. When the 2 comps called a truce, it was only ARL Sydney clubs and Illawarra, who were forced merge and no Super League Sydney clubs were forced to merge or forced into extinction, such as Souths who had to fight for their survival.

No, all Sydney clubs had to meet the NRL criteria to be eligible to compete..

Signing with super league may have provided a cash boost which may have increased your chance of standing alone, but it was no guarantee..

Particularly when you were already investigating merging with Easts before super league..

 

[muzby]

No, you were discussing the 20 years and trying to manipulate the time frame so that we compared 11 years for St George and 20 years for St George Illawarra.

The JV was formed in 1998 therefore the 1977 Grand final win should be included.

Nope.. check the last few posts.. The point of discussion is St George’s performance post their last premiership vs the JV’s performance..

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

All of these events are things that occurred since St George last won a premiership..

The point of this is to highlight to you that the history which you claim to be a strong selling point is actually further in the past than you may think..

Another point which may help - Newtown we’re still playing 1st grade the last time St George won..


Commiserations on your losses.

However, history celebrates the winners, not the losers.

Actually, it’s not an “undeniable fact”. It’s a complete and utter lie, which is highlighted by plain statistics.

In the 20 seasons berween the last premiership and the JV, you only made the finals 9 times, lost 4 grand finals and didn’t win a premiership.

In the first 20 seasons of the JV, we’ve made the finals 12 times, made 2 grand finals and won one.

So..

Finals strike rate: (number of seasons we’ve made the finals)
STG: 45%
STGI: 60%

Grand final success rate:
STG: 0%
STGI: 50%

Premierships:
STG: 0
STGI: 1

Are there any other metrics you’d prefer me to use to define “success”?



You do realise the African grey parrot you have put up there is considered one of the smartest animals in the world?

Well Musby let's take a closer look because I'm with you...figures don't lie.
All seasons INCLUDING 1979 because 2019 season is not over so cannot be included in your assessment.
Finals strike rate (number of finals actually contested)
STGI. Played 25 won 12 = 48% strike rate.
STG. Played 26 won 14 = 54% strike rate

Grand Final Appearances
STGI.. 2
STG. 5

Premierships last 20 seasons
STGI. 1 (2010)
STG. 1 (1979)

Let's take it a step further

Top 4 finishes - Statistically important because this is recognized as essential if a club is to win a premiership.
STGI. 4
STG. 6

Historical win ratio over 20 seasons
STGI. 51.92% (not including 2019 of course)
STG. 60.71%

So to a certain degree measuring success can be subjective in as far as how you interpret "metrics".
As you can see, my metrics show a different picture to yours and I maintain the St. George stand alone was more successful than our current "Super Club".

As for your African Grey Parrot - said to have the intelligence of a 4 year old human.
I think it fits you perfectly.

 

[muzby]

Well Musby let's take a closer look because I'm with you...figures don't lie.
All seasons INCLUDING 1979 because 2019 season is not over so cannot be included in your assessment.
Finals strike rate (number of finals actually contested)
STGI. Played 25 won 12 = 48% strike rate.
STG. Played 26 won 14 = 54% strike rate

Grand Final Appearances
STGI.. 2
STG. 5

Premierships last 20 seasons
STGI. 1 (2010)
STG. 1 (1979)

Let's take it a step further

Top 4 finishes - Statistically important because this is recognized as essential if a club is to win a premiership.
STGI. 4
STG. 6

Historical win ratio over 20 seasons
STGI. 51.92% (not including 2019 of course)
STG. 60.71%

So to a certain degree measuring success can be subjective in as far as how you interpret "metrics".
As you can see, my metrics show a different picture to yours and I maintain the St. George stand alone was more successful than our current "Super Club".

As for your African Grey Parrot - said to have the intelligence of a 4 year old human.
I think it fits you perfectly.

Lol.. That was a cute effort, but you’ve made a number of glaring errors there..

I only going to point out the one which makes me really chuckle..

Top 4 finishes - Statistically important because this is recognized as essential if a club is to win a premiership.
STGI. 4
STG. 6

Out of curiosity what value would you put on making the top 4 to winning the comp? Twice as important? Three times as important? (I’ll get to this later..)

And if making the top 4 is essential to win the comp, if St George made the top 4 more times than the JV, why did you put the following stat up?

Premierships last 20 seasons
STGI. 1 (2010)
STG. 1 (1979)

This gives the JV a 1 in 4 record (25%) of winning a comp after landing in the important top 4, vs St George with a 1 in 6 record (16.7%)

Again, the JV is more successful..

Of course that is before we place into the equation your co-efficient value of making the top 4, which would make the JV even more successful in comparison..

 

[muzby]

Oh.. And how many of your top 4 finishes were in comps with 14 teams or less in them?

Just curious..

 

[St Georgio]

Please God I want St George Dragons to die!

 

[Dragons 09]

Worst thread ever!

 

[j0nesy]

So when WIN corporation buy out the remaining three seats on the board will we get Stanley the Steeler back as a mascot? That guy was awesome I remember him running into/“breaking up” a fight (against Souths I think) and getting suspended for it. Perhaps the only rugby league mascot to be suspended?

 

[Saints Forever]

So when WIN corporation buy out the remaining three seats on the board will we get Stanley the Steeler back as a mascot? That guy was awesome I remember him running into/“breaking up” a fight (against Souths I think) and getting suspended for it. Perhaps the only rugby league mascot to be suspended?

Seems to me WIN bought those three board votes about 5 years ago )

 

[St Georgio]

Screw the JV!!

 

[muzby]

Screw the JV!!

I love the JV..

It’s a shame that some St George fans would prefer to head to the NSW cup instead of sticking around for glory in first grade..

I just hope we get a good coach soon..

 

[SaintPauli]

100% I rather fold forever than being a JV, I can't bear the noisy rhetoric of others reminding me, we have 1 premiership not 16.
I Started following the Dragons in 1977 with people bowing to success of the Famous Red V, these days saints don't even register anything than but a team that just makes up the numbers of the NRL.
This team is not for Me any longer, the turning point for St George was staying loyal to the ARL, if you look at every SL team they've survived in there own terms like Scummullah.

The club is so silent about this it friggin totalling wrong. If the club celebrates in 2021, 100years its a BS smoke screen.
Can't have 100 years if the JV disolved St George dragons and today recognizes that only 1 premiership stands.

 

[Objective View]

I only going to point out the one which makes me really chuckle..

Musby?

Straight Shooter

 

[muzby]

Musby?

Straight Shooter

He’s just using the Australian spelling..

 

[muzby]

The club is so silent about this it friggin totalling wrong. If the club celebrates in 2021, 100years its a BS smoke screen.
Can't have 100 years if the JV disolved St George dragons and today recognizes that only 1 premiership stands.

1 premiership in 100 years, and St George couldn’t have done it without:

 

[Willow]

Because we’re younger?

You wouldn't understand.

 

[Carlton]

Nope.. check the last few posts.. The point of discussion is St George’s performance post their last premiership vs the JV’s performance..

This was only what you wanted to discuss, the point of the discussion was St George's standalone record is better than the JV's.