SJ.

[Thatwasnthighref]

I mean, it massively worked last year. If we'd had a top level pack in front of him, we could have been a premiership threat. So he signed on again this year, and the issues have been far reaching, but very little to do with him.

I'd agree we need to look at whether it's viable that he plays on with an ever-increasingly disfunctional body in 2025, and whether there's an option out there that could come in and do a job. A lot easier said than done.

I actually think his body has actually held up really well.

Yea he hasn't been able to train much this year, but he’s toughed it out given our lack of depth (which is testament to his mental resilience) and the fact he’s been able to play at all shows the injury itself hasn’t been completely debilitating.

He played 25/27 games last season and up till now, 10/10 this year. Missing 2 games in 18mths is impressive at any age, let alone 33. Even more so when we remember Cleary has missed 9 over the same period, and will miss the next 6-8 as well.

Not suggesting we should blindly re-sign SJ without considering his age, but I do think he's been far more robust than he's getting credit for and that should count for something.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

He was a good signing at mid range, especially last season, season before was playing to his dollar value at best. Higher money is a punt, was last year an aberration, but not a punt that is on the books long term.

 

[Philip_Smith007]

I mean, it massively worked last year. If we'd had a top level pack in front of him, we could have been a premiership threat. So he signed on again this year, and the issues have been far reaching, but very little to do with him.

I'd agree we need to look at whether it's viable that he plays on with an ever-increasingly disfunctional body in 2025, and whether there's an option out there that could come in and do a job. A lot easier said than done.

Not training with the team and then playing on the weekend has been a massive issue.
You can see it all over the park, especially on attack, no flow, not crisp, no plan, he is the sole attacking option/caller. I'm sureuve missed more.

I am not saying he isn't tough, or doesn't have a brilliant boot, but playing him injured and not training with the team has been a huge mistake.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Not training with the team and then playing on the weekend has been a massive issue.
You can see it all over the park, especially on attack, no flow, not crisp, no plan, he is the sole attacking option/caller. I'm sureuve missed more.

I am not saying he isn't tough, or doesn't have a brilliant boot, but playing him injured and not training with the team has been a huge mistake.

Oh yeah, course it is a major issue. They wouldn't train together, would they, if it wasn't the most beneficial way to do it.

I still don't agree, to be honest, that him playing 'injured' and not training has been a mistake. I think we might find out tomorrow what that would've looked like. I don't think they had an option. Literally no one else in our squad is fit and NRL quality in the halves, given Metcalf is not there. Not picking SJ when we could manage him would've been an almost sure-fire way to dropping games, at a critical part of the season. If we'd beaten the Sharks, Storm etc early on, Webster might've rested him given a good position on the ladder, but I don't think we had that luxury.

 

[Philip_Smith007]

Oh yeah, course it is a major issue. They wouldn't train together, would they, if it wasn't the most beneficial way to do it.

I still don't agree, to be honest, that him playing 'injured' and not training has been a mistake. I think we might find out tomorrow what that would've looked like. I don't think they had an option. Literally no one else in our squad is fit and NRL quality in the halves, given Metcalf is not there. Not picking SJ when we could manage him would've been an almost sure-fire way to dropping games, at a critical part of the season. If we'd beaten the Sharks, Storm etc early on, Webster might've rested him given a good position on the ladder, but I don't think we had that luxury.

We did drop the games anyway, all 4 of them.
Hindsight is a beautiful thing and we would never know if 2 weeks rest would have allowed sufficient recovery to train and play?
So we ultimately have what we would of had 4 weeks ago. We just delayed it.
Again Hindsight is a beautiful thing.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

We did drop the games anyway, all 4 of them.
Hindsight is a beautiful thing and we would never know if 2 weeks rest would have allowed sufficient recovery to train and play?
So we ultimately have what we would of had 4 weeks ago. We just delayed it.
Again Hindsight is a beautiful thing.

Yep,both ways for sure. I certainly don't think we lost games because SJ wasn't up to speed - we were consistently beaten across the park.

He has a pec injury now which is not related to the Achilles he was nursing...so it's all up in the air as to how we'd look now if he'd rested.

 

[Philip_Smith007]

That game may have been proof he should have been rested!

 

[Penrose Warrior]

That game may have been proof he should have been rested!

Yep, could well have been. A new spine got a shot and delivered big style

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

Yep, could well have been. A new spine got a shot and delivered big style

Sure did. Stoked to see TMM play well. Three times he ran the same shape, one on each side hitting the center short and the last one hitting Taine out back, and he executed perfectly each time (albeit with Yeo out for the first couple).

I'd hoped being on the ball would unlock him a bit and it certainly looked that way. CNK's pass for Montoya was a beauty too.

 

[Big Marn]

Sure did. Stoked to see TMM play well. Three times he ran the same shape, one on each side hitting the center short and the last one hitting Taine out back, and he executed perfectly each time (albeit with Yeo out for the first couple).

I'd hoped being on the ball would unlock him a bit and it certainly looked that way. CNK's pass for Montoya was a beauty too.

He was running right into the line and timing it perfectly. they couldnt back off him in case he went himself. SJ couldnt have done any better.

 

[Rich102]

What a difference it makes with the halves running both sides.
The plays to the right side have been overdone.

 

[Shaun Hewitt]

So 2 weeks without SJ, and 2 wins.
Has this changed any opinions?

 

[TheDMC]

Just that when SJ comes back, TMM has a much bigger role in running plays than he did previously when they played together.

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

So 2 weeks without SJ, and 2 wins.
Has this changed any opinions?

Definitely changed my opinion of TMM. I thought he was mud till now but turns out he just needed an opportunity to be the main guy.

But between him, SJ, Egan and maybe Tohu, they need to figure out how to keep him more involved when they all get back on deck together.

I think part of that will be on TMM himself and having more confidence to overcall on his side. Hopefully these last couple games give him that confidence.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

So 2 weeks without SJ, and 2 wins.
Has this changed any opinions?

About SJ himself? No.
About how much the team should rely on him and utilise him? Yes. But that’s a coaching and captaincy issue more than an SJ issue.

 

[Blair]

So 2 weeks without SJ, and 2 wins.
Has this changed any opinions?

In fairness to Johnson we should allow him the luxury of playing fully fit.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

About SJ himself? No.
About how much the team should rely on him and utilise him? Yes. But that’s a coaching and captaincy issue more than an SJ issue.

Yeah, this. We were relying way too much on an injured player, or even if he wasn't injured.

I was very vocal about how anonymous TMM was but his form the last two weeks shows we don't have to be one-dimensional anymore.

I guess the issue will be that TMM has been really strong in his ball-playing on the right side, which is where SJ has operated, so how that looks going forward?

It's been an incredible two weeks really, in how not only how courageous we've been, but how a perceived hardship has actually opened our season up and showed us a whole new way to play.

 

[Meth]

re Johnson, it's really untenable for him to not train with the team and then turn up to play on game day expecting that everything will just click- especially if we are totally reliant on him as a half. Might seem obvious to say that, but it's weird to be talking about the possibility of re-signing him and not even discussing the possibility of dropping him until he can actually train with us. He's our best available half, but is he even available?

feeling pretty vindicated on this hot take, actually.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

feeling pretty vindicated on this hot take, actually.

Fair enough too.

In the future, Metcalf and TMM looks like a combination that could really work...with TMM in the 7, Metcalf playing more off the cuff in 6. I've been surprised that we haven't missed SJs kicking game especially, we really haven't missed a beat.

 

[Meth]

I didn’t see TMM stepping up as much as he has though. I thought it would be more a case of needing to suffer short term in order to have a chance down the track