Slater or Hayne

[thorson1987]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

You come on and make a stupid point about how Hayne being the best at stopping tries in the comp 'proves' that Parra gives up more linebreaks than any other team.

Then I say 'uh - no, Parra is the second best team in the comp in that regard' - and YOU demand stats?

Well, I'm not going to throw you a direct link because you don't know what to do with it anyway.
So you can go to nrlstats.com.au and crunch some numbers - or perhaps figure out yourself where to look up these well known facts.

Did you HONESTLY not realize that Parramatta was one of the best defensive teams in the comp this year???
Only St George is better.

The fact that you don't believe that disqualifies your opinion on this debate because you clearly don't understand what's been happening in the NRL THIS SEASON.

Where have I stated that.

All i said was a possible reason for Hayne making 50% more try saving tackles was that maybe Parra allow more line breaks, therefore of course he is going to have to make more try saving tackles.

And seeing as though you like stats so much.

Points against this year.

Dragons - 193
Storm - 275
Parra - 325

Missed tackles this year

Dragons - 466
Storm - 522
Parra - 539

Is my opinion qualified now, as clearly you have no f**king clue either.

 

[oldmancraigy]

Points against this year.

Dragons - 193
Storm - 275
Parra - 325

I was VERY MUCH hoping you might resort to that.

In which fantasy land is Melbourne (1) competing for the premiership this season or (2) participating on a level playing field with all other teams?

Forgive me for not explicitly stating that they were excluded from any comparison - one would think it assumed??

Parra 2nd best defensive team in the league.

And since you clearly don't know how to compute line breaks against the 'boring' way let me encourage you to read a Friday paper - you might find something in there if you look carefully.

You make the point rather clearly that there are people who don't pay attention to what is actually happening this season but somehow feel qualified to comment on it.

Have you watched 5 or more Parra games this year?

 

[caylo]

Where have I stated that.

All i said was a possible reason for Hayne making 50% more try saving tackles was that maybe Parra allow more line breaks, therefore of course he is going to have to make more try saving tackles.

And seeing as though you like stats so much.

Points against this year.

Dragons - 193
Storm - 275
Parra - 325

Missed tackles this year

Dragons - 466
Storm - 522
Parra - 539

Is my opinion qualified now, as clearly you have no f**king clue either.

misstackles and point scored does not equal line breaks conceeded, Parramatta conceed the second least linebreaks only to the Dragons

Dragons - 3.2 per match
Eels - 3.4
Storm 3.7

Now I hate to bring stats into an argument but considering Hayne has 13 try assists (8th in the league and only behind Boyd for all fullback) and 13 line break assists (7th in the league only hehind slater of all fullback) in a team that is coming 3rd last in LB and 2nd last in tries scored shows how good he is as a player. Plus considering the guy makes more meters of kick return per match and more meter per kick return shows how good his positional play generally is. While I think Dugan and Slater probably have better positional play (Dugan probably the best in the league) I think Hayne ability in attack is probably only comparable with Thurston, Lockyer and Prince and no fullback even comes close.
The main problem with Hayne atm is that he has needed to play like a halfback or 5-8 when he isn't and that effects his running game, in the last 3 weeks Robson has moved to HB allowing Hayne to roam more again and set up tries with his running game more so then structured play. At the beginning of the year thou hayne was playing very tough footy that most people in here would love their fullback to play, unfortunatly because he wasnt making line breaks with no look passes or running 60meters off kick returns apparently he was playing sh*t.
I don't like buying into these arguments and have not voted because I see Hayne play every week and watch Slater maybe once a month but I can say Hayne has been very consistant this year with the odd bad game (1 or 2 this year - which every player has) and he has been superb this year IMO. I also would not trade him for any player in the league, not thurston, cronk or Prince.

 

[simostorm]

Slater craps all over Hayne.. specially in the big games.. look at this years Origin series..

 

[dollyhands]

Slater craps all over Hayne.. specially in the big games.. look at this years Origin series..

:lol: he's back!

 

[dollyhands]

:lol: he's back!

this

 

[dollyhands]

Slater was doin all the things Hayne is doin now when Slater was in his rookie year (most of the Hayne lovin nuff nuffs on here probably weren't born then or were watching AFL) Slater realized that being i one man entertainment machine didn't win enough games for the club, so he changed his game for the team. Can anyone see Hayne doin this??? Hayne is so far up his own arse that it amazes me how all you Parra fans fit up there too:lol:

 

[sarahk]

Slater craps all over Hayne.. specially in the big games.. look at this years Origin series..

Simo,

Going through the NRL thread i noticed that something was different. The comments were severely lacking in stupidity/nonsense. I then realised that you hadn't been commenting for a while.

It was nice while it lasted...welcome back.

 

[typicalfan]

Slater was doin all the things Hayne is doin now when Slater was in his rookie year (most of the Hayne lovin nuff nuffs on here probably weren't born then or were watching AFL) Slater realized that being i one man entertainment machine didn't win enough games for the club, so he changed his game for the team. Can anyone see Hayne doin this??? Hayne is so far up his own arse that it amazes me how all you Parra fans fit up there too:lol:

Slater was a centre in his rookie year.

 

[oldmancraigy]

Slater craps all over Hayne.. specially in the big games.. look at this years Origin series..

Was that in game 3 where Hayne clearly outplated Slater?

Or in game 2 (Hayne's first ever as a FB) where NSW did squat all generally? (although Hayne at least looked threatening)

I know its simostorm, so there's no use debating here, but if you actually look at the numbers for this years 2 head to head Origin performances, Hayne produced better (despite being on the end of a whipping in game 2).

 

[Tommy Smith]

I would have thought that this debate would have been pretty simple.

From a neutral's perspective:

Hayne at his absolute best is better than Slater at his absolute best. (Not that Slater's best isn't absolutely awesome but Hayne is a freak).

However, over his career Slater has been at his best around 80-90% of the time. Whereas Hayne IMO is far more up and down and has generally only fired on all cylinders as a FB about 50-60% of the time.

Those numbers are of course just my general observations. But i challenge anyone to argue that Hayne is more consistent than Slater.

So, until Hayne can perform at the high level we're seeing on a regular basis then at this stage id have to give Slater the edge. But if Hayne ever starts producing what we've seen over the last few weeks from week 1 of the competition, rather than waiting until Rnd 18 or so, then look out.

 

[Eels Dude]

I would have thought that this debate would have been pretty simple.

From a neutral's perspective:

Hayne at his absolute best is better than Slater at his absolute best. (Not that Slater's best isn't absolutely awesome but Hayne is a freak).

However, over his career Slater has been at his best around 80-90% of the time. Whereas Hayne IMO is far more up and down and has generally only fired on all cylinders as a FB about 50-60% of the time.

Those numbers are of course just my general observations. But i challenge anyone to argue that Hayne is more consistent than Slater.

So, until Hayne can perform at the high level we're seeing on a regular basis then at this stage id have to give Slater the edge. But if Hayne ever starts producing what we've seen over the last few weeks from week 1 of the competition, rather than waiting until Rnd 18 or so, then look out.

The argument there is dependent on the fact that Slater for most his career has played for a dominant (by cheating) club side, and a very dominant QLD side. His consistency would be somewhat easier to achieve due to the fact he's been playing in dominant sides around great players over the past 5 years. Something Hayne's never had to opportunity to achieve due to a lack of quality among the players around him.

 

[Tommy Smith]

The argument there is dependent on the fact that Slater for most his career has played for a dominant (by cheating) club side, and a very dominant QLD side. His consistency would be somewhat easier to achieve due to the fact he's been playing in dominant sides around great players over the past 5 years. Something Hayne's never had to opportunity to achieve due to a lack of quality among the players around him.

But Hayne has only been FB since early last year hasn't he? And in that time he's played in a GF team and a pre-season favourite for the 2010 title.

If Hayne can get the Eels to the GF again on the back of another remarkable 10 or so week run then id be more than prepared to overlook the fact that he was borderline MIA for the first 18 or so weeks of the season again.

Because alot has to be said for great players who do it when it matters most.

 

[sarahk]

But Hayne has only been FB since early last year hasn't he? And in that time he's played in a GF team and a pre-season favourite for the 2010 title.

If Hayne can get the Eels to the GF again on the back of another remarkable 10 or so week run then id be more than prepared to overlook the fact that he was borderline MIA for the first 18 or so weeks of the season again.

Because alot has to be said for great players who do it when it matters most.

You said that these were your general observations but i seriously believe that you made NO observation at all. How can ANYONE who watched any game of parras this year, prior to the 3 game winning streak of late,declare that hayne was borderline MIA. That's a ridiculous and unfair call especially considering that in ALOT of games this year Hayne tried really hard in a team that just couldn't attack at all.

 

[Eels Dude]

But Hayne has only been FB since early last year hasn't he? And in that time he's played in a GF team and a pre-season favourite for the 2010 title.

If Hayne can get the Eels to the GF again on the back of another remarkable 10 or so week run then id be more than prepared to overlook the fact that he was borderline MIA for the first 18 or so weeks of the season again.

Because alot has to be said for great players who do it when it matters most.

He also played fullback in the back half of 2007 where we lost to the Storm in the prelims and was terrific but then was thrown into the centres by that idiot Hagan for the entire '08 season.

Overall that wasn't my point though. My point was that Billy Slater has been playing outside Cameron Smith and Cooper Cronk at club level for the past 5 years... and outside Smith and Jonathon Thurston at origin level at the same time. With strong and consistent forward packs as well I might add. Playing outside such outstanding and consistent players makes Slater's job a lot easier as he can play a natural fullback role and not have to carry the team like Hayne's expected to do.

Hayne on the other hand has always been surrounded by a weaker bunch of players. He hasn't had the halves or hookers to feed him good ball and he hasn't always been able to play behind a dominant forward pack. This is both at club and origin level. There's only so much a fullback can do with a lack of quality ball from the halves, or playing behind a pack who are getting monstered. Hayne at his best is playing the role of fullback, halfback, and five-eighth all at once and it's almost impossible to do that consistently.

A player like Hayne is not going to become consistent unless the Parramatta halves and forwards (NSW too for that matter) do their job correctly and consistently also. Something Billy Slater has had the luxury of his teammates doing that for him for the past few years but Hayne's not in the same boat, and that's not his fault. That's why it's something you can't really compare.

 

[RABK]

Brett Stewart.

 

[dollyhands]

Slater was a centre in his rookie year.

OK???? So who played fullback while robbie ross was injured for most of the year?? Rodney Howe???

 

[netic]

I think we have already seen how bad Haynes positional play is tonight

 

[RHCP]

I think we have already seen how bad Haynes positional play is tonight

Beat me to it.

First two tries he got exposed big time.

 

[WaznTheGreat]

That won't matter if he comes out in the 2nd half and wins Parra the game.