So Its Round 5. Does Ivan Stay Or Go

[NZ Warrior]

Let's face it, if they boot Cleary, we'll get Iro. I don't think Iro is ready for the NRL yet. So I'd rather stick with Cleary and scrap into the finals thanks.

 

[Rich102]

It's round 2. The team are playing badly.
Cleary will never win a Grand Final.
Bluey might.

 

[Dr Crane]

bluey has

 

[Micistm]

Hmm, after round two, I'll reserve judgement on Ives. I don't feel right blaming the coach for last nights game. I don't think it's in the training to make so many errors and missed tackles, which is what slaughtered us last night, although our attack was pretty 1D & crap.
Let's see how they go next week against the Dragons. If they play the same as Rnd 1&2 they will be spanked and taught a lesson. I am hoping though that these games and losses will have hurt- Big home crowd they lost in 15min into the game, and an away game they had & blew completely.
I feel sorry for Ives more than pissed with him atm-He needs to get out of character and riot act the guys that this sort of sh*t is not good enough in the big time, go Hassler on them and break dressing room doors. Maybe it will sink in a bit then!

 

[Warmess]

Cleary can't even correctly do what he's known for, 'boring play'. We are utterly predictable and despite trying to get players who have 'X-Factor' the rest of the players seem adamant those players won't get the ball.

Cleary will never get close to getting us a premiership, and even if we win one (lol!), it will be off the back of Vatuvei.

There needs to be a clear out, starting with the coach. Mannering, Mateo and Luck back row? Lol, where's the attack coming from? Mateo is usually off having a coffee somewhere and when he's not, the opposition are throwing players at him to wear him out.

Luck is a good defender, but seems totally ineffectual inside our 20 on D, and I face palm whenever he takes a 'hit up'. He needs to go if we want to cause opposition D any form of worry. But nope, Ives will keep picking him because Ives is a sh*t coach and loves the boring.

Another crap year coming up. The only light at the end is that we might finally see the end of Cleary.

 

[Iafeta]

Hmm, after round two, I'll reserve judgement on Ives. I don't feel right blaming the coach for last nights game. I don't think it's in the training to make so many errors and missed tackles, which is what slaughtered us last night, although our attack was pretty 1D & crap.
Let's see how they go next week against the Dragons. If they play the same as Rnd 1&2 they will be spanked and taught a lesson. I am hoping though that these games and losses will have hurt- Big home crowd they lost in 15min into the game, and an away game they had & blew completely.
I feel sorry for Ives more than pissed with him atm-He needs to get out of character and riot act the guys that this sort of sh*t is not good enough in the big time, go Hassler on them and break dressing room doors. Maybe it will sink in a bit then!

I kind of do. There's so little structure in what they're trying to do, it's all hail mary and see what happens. The best teams, all their players know what they're doing. And their fullbacks support double around plays and come up the middle, but ours is playing as a second receiver trying to overcompensate for poor halves. I find the attack is not what I'd call a coordinated attack, its just people popping up trying to initiate something or make some metres, rather than pin pointing an area of weakness and going at them. For example, last night Utai, who is an average defender and poor under the high ball was barely tested. Wade, who we know is slow as all hell was asked only once to speed across to save a grubber in goal.

To me, the forwards matched the Tigers. Perhaps even with Sharky's efforts were better than theirs. But when it came time to put something together there was no coordination and no plan. Cleary in the press conference says it was rudderless, but I'm not sure we have ever been particularly well ruddered over the past 3-4 years.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

I read a pathetic article in the SST this morning which used the word "mistakes" about 20 times. Some of the same stuff has crept in to this forum. Handling errors are not the problem. They are THE OPPOSITE of the problem.

You can't have it both ways- ask for more attack, and then tell the blokes they're not allowed to drop the ball. The problem is not some bloke dropping the ball, it's inside balls to Luck and repeated attacking sets which involve 3 hit ups and 2 dummy half runs.

 

[Martli]

I read a pathetic article in the SST this morning which used the word "mistakes" about 20 times. Some of the same stuff has crept in to this forum. Handling errors are not the problem. They are THE OPPOSITE of the problem.

You can't have it both ways- ask for more attack, and then tell the blokes they're not allowed to drop the ball. The problem is not some bloke dropping the ball, it's inside balls to Luck and repeated attacking sets which involve 3 hit ups and 2 dummy half runs.

Agreed. We made 12 errors and had a 70% completion rate, compared to 16 and 64% from the Tigers, yet the Tigers still beat us by 8. Mistakes weren't the problem.

 

[Iafeta]

The problems are a lack of variety/creativity/execution. Halves related, and coaching structure related.

 

[Mr Angry]

To the Opening post, Round 2 send the SOS to Bluey, Round 4 Put him in.

 

[armchaircritic]

We made less errors but the amount of times we passed the ball to no-one in the tigers 20 was embarrassing. All stems down to structure on attack. No-one looked hungry for the ball. We never looked like scoring when we got close to the line.

 

[hitman82]

Agreed. We made 12 errors and had a 70% completion rate, compared to 16 and 64% from the Tigers, yet the Tigers still beat us by 8. Mistakes weren't the problem.

Disagree.
Where and when those errors were made last night, and last week, was absolutely critical to the result.

They largely weren't made trying to pop amazing offloads or tricky passes. They were in hit-ups and simple passing moves, in the beginning of sets, when we had the momentum and the field position to score tries.

That's what cost us points.

Eventually Benji took control of the game, because we failed to kill the Tigers off when we had ample chances.

 

[Micistm]

I read a pathetic article in the SST this morning which used the word "mistakes" about 20 times. Some of the same stuff has crept in to this forum. Handling errors are not the problem. They are THE OPPOSITE of the problem.

You can't have it both ways- ask for more attack, and then tell the blokes they're not allowed to drop the ball. The problem is not some bloke dropping the ball, it's inside balls to Luck and repeated attacking sets which involve 3 hit ups and 2 dummy half runs.

Thats a fair point tbh.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

Disagree.
Where and when those errors were made last night, and last week, was absolutely critical to the result.

They largely weren't made trying to pop amazing offloads or tricky passes. They were in hit-ups and simple passing moves, in the beginning of sets, when we had the momentum and the field position to score tries.

That's what cost us points.

Eventually Benji took control of the game, because we failed to kill the Tigers off when we had ample chances.

In general though we don't fail to score points because of dropped ball, we fail to score points because we don't even TRY to do anything when we have the ball.

 

[ozbash]

we fail to score points because we don't even TRY to do anything when we have the ball.

vessss

 

[hitman82]

In general though we don't fail to score points because of dropped ball, we fail to score points because we don't even TRY to do anything when we have the ball.

In general, I agree, our attack is woeful. Without the Ropati power plays or Inu freakish moments or Mannering out muscling his opponent, we wouldn't be scoring points.

Minus the K.T.M sure thing, we have f*ck all direction and communication on attack.

We seem to work towards individual tries so far this season - lacking cohesive team work on attack. I guess the only difference being Hohaia throwing a couple of nice cut-out passes. Once again a VERY simple move which is still relying on a winger power play. And not by a half.

Luck continuing to get the ball in the opposition half is a prime example. Everyone KNOWS he won't do anything with it - we have Mateo, why not use him?

However, when we drop the ball on the first, second, third tackle - again and again, we aren't even giving ourselves a chance to stuff up our attack haha.

 

[Meth]

I read a pathetic article in the SST this morning which used the word "mistakes" about 20 times. Some of the same stuff has crept in to this forum. Handling errors are not the problem. They are THE OPPOSITE of the problem.

You can't have it both ways- ask for more attack, and then tell the blokes they're not allowed to drop the ball. The problem is not some bloke dropping the ball, it's inside balls to Luck and repeated attacking sets which involve 3 hit ups and 2 dummy half runs.

I agree

Interestingly, I am pretty sure that the Tigers made more errors than us.

Our missed tackles were an issue, as was our lack of direction in building an attack. Who's the captain of the ship?

 

[KeepingTheFaith]

Mistakes aren't the problem. and a better attack would rectify those mistakes to some degree.

When your attack is mind numbingly predictable defenses rush up on you and mistakes happen as you have less time or push passes.

When you have no team structure in attack, individuals attempt to do everything themselves, hence the numerous "looking to see what they're going to do before the balls in their hands" mistakes we saw against the Tigers.

The issue now is that the standard "these guys need confidence before they can attack" line will start filtering out into the media and the safety first no progress game plan will continue.

 

[hitman82]

^ Actually, I can see where you are coming from there, and agree. Lack of cohesion on attack causes confusion and errors.

 

[Rich102]

OK. So some people have made suggestions as to how the team should be changed. It's not going to happen. Maloney in for John is all Ivan will do.

What is Ivan's record as a coach? He coached a junior team at the Roosters and had success with a good squad at the Warriors. When we had problems, ie the halves with Witt & Rovelli, was it solved? No. Has he coached a structured attacking team? No. It's all about defence and boring as hell.
Ivan won't change. He's the one who wanted to get Stacey back again; thank goodness Stacey had the sense to say no.

This team has no structure or patters on attack. It's all about counterattack from broken play...oh, and kicks to Manu.
We have won one game from ten without Manu. Does that tell you something.

Morale is poor because the team doesn't know what they are doing. Even a short passing game with a good kick on the end is beyond them at the moment. I feel sorry for them.

Mateo is the only attacking forward. How easy is that to shut down?

Ivan had Ackland as an assistant and did poorly. Some suggested it was Ackland's fault.
So Iro swapped places with Ackland. Ackland coached the team to the Warrior,s first premiership.
Ivan & Iro have gone backwards.

The NRL is the world's toughest league competition. If you are not improving you are going nowhere. We already have problems attracting class players - we have to pay over the odds for hacks. (And how many of those have we had in recent years?)

The changed circumstances of Watson & Hotchin is going to affect the club.

All very well moving games to Eden Park for the bigger crowds... lose another couple of games and see how many turn out.

This is a tough game - Cleary has had his chance, time for someone else.