So Its Round 5. Does Ivan Stay Or Go

[Iafeta]

I've never understood why it is the coach that has to take all the blame for individual errors.
Cleary isnt the one dropping the ball in his own 20m area on the first hitup.
Cleary isnt the one throwing a miracle pass on tackle one when we have just made a big break into the opposition's area.
Cleary isnt the one throwing the forward pass to the winger with an open tryline.
Cleary isnt the one dropping the high ball cold with no attackers in sight.
Cleary isnt the one dropping the ball in the play the ball just after the team has defended for 2 sets in a row.
Cleary isnt the one trying to strip the ball out of the oppositions hands with 2 in the tackle.
Did you ever watch John Ackland last year when they showed the coaches box during games just after a Warrior had done something stupid? If the poor guy had any hair to pull out, it would have been gone halfway thru last year.
Stop putting the boot into the coach for individual errors that he has no control over.
All the above mistakes put the team under unnecessary pressure, switch momentum, and more often than not, cost games.

Yup, I can assure you he wasn't the bloke who dropped it cold in the ruck, and then left his winger unmarked for no reason because he didn't trust his centre, who has been an Origin and Kangaroos international. That right there was the end of any momentum for us.

 

[ozbash]

when/why did it go pearshaped Fri night ?

35 mins into the game, I thought we were looking ok, then we stopped..

 

[hitman82]

I cursed Kevin Locke for about half an hour after he made that ridiculous play trying to earn a penalty, gives Tigers possession, then moreso when he didn't do the smart or correct thing and make up for his immaturity and stupidity by manning up with a defensive effort worthy of an NRL footballer.
No, he comes in second man to a tackle Tate was making, leaving his opposite with a leisurely stroll to the line. Gifting Tigers the lead and all the momentum with 2 minutes to go.
All in a situation HE created. In a game where his teammates are busting their asses to stay in a game they are rightly picked to get flogged in.
I like Locke but MAN I hated him for a while there. Actually I think I still do.

 

[Iafeta]

I must say I cursed him, but then I felt genuinely sorry for him. Poor Kev. He looked like he was feeling the pain in that second half. Someone really needed to tell the kid to keep his head up.

 

[hitman82]

When he made the error (the tragically comical one where he slips and drops the ball mid-pass) I definitely felt sorry for him.
But by that time I was of the opinion that he played an enormous part in costing us any chance at a win.

I think our horrible run of injuries has cost Locke a chance at what he needs: an extended lower grade run, preferably at fullback for the Vulcans, to get his confidence way back up.

 

[hitman82]

confidence and focus even! Locke needs to think more about the big picture. His mind doesn't seem up to NRL pace right now and panic is making him do pretty dumb things.

 

[ozbash]

confidence and focus even! Locke needs to think more about the big picture. His mind doesn't seem up to NRL pace right now and panic is making him do pretty dumb things.

playing out of position does that to you

 

[Iafeta]

I'm not sure about that oz. A lot of other good players have coped with playing out of their so called preferential position. Infact, a lot of them end up converting to that position.

Look, what Billy Tupou and Kevin Locke needed after that game was for Ivan Cleary to go up to them and say, when you boys get your 100th first grade try, you'll look back on those moments as moments that toughened you up and made you see the level of professionalism in your preparation you need to go to to get the 1% plays right. Try and make the situations they got themselves into something that makes them want to go away and learn and process it, rather than dwell on it.

 

[playdaball]

Is Locke still young enough to play 20s?

 

[Iafeta]

No.

 

[Skinner]

did you go Skinz, its your old stamping ground, isnt it ?

The knives will be out after we get flogged at home next weekend v Drags. People are getting a bit miffed after Friday nights game, after next week they'll be ropable...

I dont blame Ives for the injuries but some of Fri nights positional and interchange options left me scratching my head...

No mate, we didn't make it. It wasn't till later in the week I realised it was out at the old home town. We had made other arrangements. It was in my
head that it was to be played at Leichhardt.....buga.

 

[Micistm]

I just don't know. Not a clue. And to suggest it's Cleary's fault is difficult. It may well be, but may not be either.

we were holding our own for 35min friday night, then just lost it completely. It's hard to say that's the gameplan.
I still have the feeling we are past the point of no return, considering we have no real backup to Cleary if you got rid of him. IMO considering the injury toll, which I think it is safe to say is worse than any other team, it is unfair to blame Cleary. There are some players that need a rocket under them, and my concern is Cleary doesn't seem to get fired up enough to totally launch into players if they need it.
I can understand reaction to Friday nights game though, haven't felt so livid watching a game for ages. Tigers got dicked by 50 a couple of weeks ago as well though, once the emotions calm down a little I just think atm we don't have much choice but to soldier on and face facts that Cleary is stuck with certain backup players with lack of choice and lack of depth. It's hard to judge until we get a decent run with MOST of the team back on deck.
A cruel year. Always thought she'd be a bit of a roller coaster. still better than '09 though!

 

[Rich102]

It's quite clear? That's a bit... dramatic isn't it? Fair dinkum, they're 5 and 6. If it was quite clear they'd be 3 and 8 or something stupid.

Ivan to me is very hard to evaluate. And it's almost impossible to give him any conscionable rating on what's happened thus far. Not only have we had an absolutely enormous and high quality injury list, but we've had a fair few games where blokes have come off reducing off bench. In a couple of them, we've still won.

Going off your analysis Rich, we should have given up on Kiwi at the Melbourne Cup too. Kiwi was running dead last coming up to the turn. That was the epitomy of quite clear. Let's see what happens at the seasons end, shall we?

OK. I have said previously I don't want him to go mid-season. So for me he has till seasons end.
The injury thing isn't his fault and has been devastating. But even without the injuries he is making stupid decisions and isn't getting the best out of the team.
Also, as I said previously, our position on the table was good - until you see where the teams we won against are.
I think it is very realistic to say Cleary has gone as far as he can with the Warriors. Time for someone else, Kearney, to get a chance.

 

[Rich102]

I'm not sure about that oz. A lot of other good players have coped with playing out of their so called preferential position. Infact, a lot of them end up converting to that position.

Look, what Billy Tupou and Kevin Locke needed after that game was for Ivan Cleary to go up to them and say, when you boys get your 100th first grade try, you'll look back on those moments as moments that toughened you up and made you see the level of professionalism in your preparation you need to go to to get the 1% plays right. Try and make the situations they got themselves into something that makes them want to go away and learn and process it, rather than dwell on it.

Yes, agree totally. I wonder if Ivan did that?

 

[Skinner]

It's trite and hackneyed, but along with everything else that I believe is wrong, the players are simply not motivated. How the hell can they play good footy for about 35 minutes and turn to absolute custard for the remainder of the game.

I think everybody (myself included) thought Rubes would be lifting them....it's just not happening. Maybe he has too much other stuff on his plate to do the role justice.

Despite what the Clearyphiles are saying, he is never going to get them over the line. I'm not suggesting he goes now, he has to see the season out. There seems to be a point of view that once all the injured players are back all will be rosy and they will cruise through to finals football.

Time to get real folks...

 

[Fast Eddie]

Going to have to finally agree with Skinner.....with a full strength side we are a fringe top 8 side and with some injuries we are a bottom 4 side. If thats good enough for some people then....

 

[Micistm]

It's trite and hackneyed, but along with everything else that I believe is wrong, the players are simply not motivated. How the hell can they play good footy for about 35 minutes and turn to absolute custard for the remainder of the game.

I think everybody (myself included) thought Rubes would be lifting them....it's just not happening. Maybe he has too much other stuff on his plate to do the role justice.

Despite what the Clearyphiles are saying, he is never going to get them over the line. I'm not suggesting he goes now, he has to see the season out. There seems to be a point of view that once all the injured players are back all will be rosy and they will cruise through to finals football.

Time to get real folks...

...But Skinz, John Hart described him as a 'Supercoach!'

 

[Skinner]

...But Skinz, John Hart described him as a 'Supercoach!'

yep, yep, yep.....:lol:

 

[Rich102]

...But Skinz, John Hart described him as a 'Supercoach!'

Only reinforces Skinz argument.

 

[ozbash]

lol, I reckon..