Some players knew

[Iafeta]

Not necessarily. The players would sign a few contracts over the year I would assume. Club sponorships, individual appearances, community and development programs etc.

I think by now it's fairly obvious they had at least an inkling of what was happening, but you can't expect them to know exactly what everything was all for.

Playing contracts are for the same offer of service. Sponsorships, appearances etc are separate things.

How so? The only rules he has broken are those of the NRL.

You can't sign multiple contracts for the same thing, surely. It would be very unusual business practice to sign multiple employment contracts at the same time with different payment terms.

The fraud would be that the owners of the Melbourne Storm are being misled by deceptive conduct.

 

[Pete Cash]

I wrote out a post but it got lost in the merge.

Basically I ask anyone who has been following the case closely how were the secondary contracts drawn up:

A) Player A signed a contract which was faxed to the NRL worth 400k. They then signed ANOTHER contract worth 600k which was the real contract.

B) Player A signed a contract which was faxed to the NRL worth 400k. They then signed two additional contracts (say called bonus contracts or something) worth 100k each. These secondary contracts were not sent to the NRL.

in case A) it seems more likely they would have known.

 

[84 Baby]

I wrote out a post but it got lost in the merge.

Basically I ask anyone who has been following the case closely how were the secondary contracts drawn up:

A) Player A signed a contract which was faxed to the NRL worth 400k. They then signed ANOTHER contract worth 600k which was the real contract.

B) Player A signed a contract which was faxed to the NRL worth 400k. They then signed two additional contracts (say called bonus contracts or something) worth 100k each. These secondary contracts were not sent to the NRL.

in case A) it seems more likely they would have known.

Given the letter written by Slater IIRC it would seem that case B is probably the more likely to have happened. But I believe the cap is reconciled from 3 directions. The NRL state the registered contract, the club state what they've paid the player and the player states what he's received from the club. So it doesn't matter if he's receiving bonuses he would still have to tell the NRL, by not doing so they are breaching the salary cap rules.

Also if it were the player managers orchestrating the fraud then it is no excuse for the players, however despite having far reaching effects to all clubs, it could also see any players caught out by the NRL suing their managers, which could have very far reaching effects

 

[little_aza]

I would think deliberately signing multiple contracts would be tantamount to fraud, wouldn't it?

Whether Smith signed three contracts or not is a question of fact, and that's pretty easy to answer. Whether it can be proven that he, a reasonable person of normal mental fortitude, would DEFINITELY, beyond reasonable doubt, know that signing three contracts is fraudulent activity?

I'd say that would be pretty hard to prove - there's just so many 'what-ifs', some of which have already been raised in this thread.

 

[MightyBronco]

If the players are punished, i hope its in the form of a fine, and suspension for next year!

And a public naming and shaming of every one of the grubby pricks.

 

[LESStar58]

After this court case i hope News Ltd pull the pin on this team and we can all sit back and watch them die a slow death.Happy days.

Indeed... I'd certainly be in favor of News getting out and having the tenth richest man in Australia buy us. We'd then be owned by someone with emotional involvement who doesn't just see us as numbers on a spreadsheet in an office on the other side of the world...

 

[cupid]

There no way the players didn't realise that they were getting payed more then their contract.

 

[LESStar58]

ban them

Agreed...and I'm a Storm fan. I've always said my beef is with the cheating administration of the club and that I'd pass judement on players if and when they were revealed to have specific involvement (i.e. what they gained from by signing multiple contracts).

If it is proven that Smith was involved then I say good riddance to him. The bloke is meant to be our captain FFS!

 

[ShadesOfTheSun]

Senior Melbourne Storm players snub salary cap investigators

By David Hastie
June 06, 2010
Melbourne Storm's senior players have snubbed meetings with salary cap breach investigators.The news came as NRL investigators found Cam Smith had three contracts.
It is alleged one was registered with the NRL, one was in a file at the Storm's administration headquarters and a third was being hidden at the home of former Storm chief Matt Hanson.

The contracts, which were drawn up by disgraced former boss Brian Waldron, also included payments for a home renovation and a guaranteed Tv commentary role. It is claimed Super League architect John Ribot negotiated the TV deal.

Despite the allegations, Smith has denied he was aware of any rorting.

It is also claimed other instances of Storm stars having more than one contract have been uncovered.

It can be revealed 10 Storm stars were due to front accounting firm Deloitte in the past fortnight, but none had appeared.

The club's owner, News Limited, revealed it had found evidence some Storm players almost certainly knew that some of their payments were paid by third parties in ways that would not be counted towards the salary cap.

"We now have evidence that some of the players were aware that some of the arrangements were not appropriate," News spokesman Greg Baxter said.

Mr Baxter said Deloitte, appointed by News to unravel the complex player payments, had attempted to reschedule the meetings, but the players' managers and agents had not co-operated.

"We have tried to interview them repeatedly and it's pretty disappointing they haven't bothered showing up," he said.

The Storm is $850,000 over the cap this season and $1.5 million next season.

Waldron was named as the architect behind the fraud.

Deloitte's forensic audit into salary cap rorts and the club's finances is continuing.

Storm chairman Rob Moodie and the club's three other independent directors have taken legal action against the NRL, claiming the league's chief executive David Gallop broke league rules and denied the Storm due process in stripping it of premierships and points.

Sunday Herald Sun

Source: http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,27231403-5018866,00.html

 

[kia ora storm]

Smith has denied that he knew about the other contracts but you have to wonder now ??...if it is proven then the club has no option but to release him for the sake of the Melbourne Storm brand.

 

[Burwood]

What I mean is as long as no one actually told them they were cheating, the 2nd and 3rd or however many contracts could have said anything. Even though deep down he probably knew what was going on you couldn't really kick a player out of the comp for this, as long as he wasn't officially "in on it" if a player gets handed a boat and just takes it without asking questions he has not really done anything that he can get into too much trouble for.

As soon as the forensic accountants have finished their investigations I'd be handing over all findings to the ATO. I'm sure they'd be very interested in any proof that a player had only paid x amount of tax instead of y. Surely even "gifts" like the renovations or boat need to be declared to the ATO for tax purposes.

The players may not got a ban from the NRL, but I can guarantee you that they will feel it in their hip pockets. I'd imagine they'd find it very hard to make the repayments on their investments once they have been slugged with a substantial fine from the ATO.

 

[stormbati]

What's wrong with you merkins? Have you got all 3 contracts in front of you? No! So stfu! We don't know what they said. It's a contract! Why would Cam or anyone else have any reason to doubt them?

 

[El Diablo]

What's wrong with you merkins? Have you got all 3 contracts in front of you? No! So stfu! We don't know what they said. It's a contract! Why would Cam or anyone else have any reason to doubt them?

"We now have evidence that some of the players were aware that some of the arrangements were not appropriate," News spokesman Greg Baxter said.

 

[stormbati]

News Ltd!!! Anything to scare the Storm boys from going further with legal action.

 

[meltiger]

Agreed...and I'm a Storm fan. I've always said my beef is with the cheating administration of the club and that I'd pass judement on players if and when they were revealed to have specific involvement (i.e. what they gained from by signing multiple contracts).

If it is proven that Smith was involved then I say good riddance to him. The bloke is meant to be our captain FFS!

Gee, good way to make me feel about about some of the fan sledging I've been doing lately lol


Great posting Les, I wish more Storm fans had this realistic attitude towards the situation.

 

[bileduct]

Any player that doesn't cooperate with the investigation should be stood down immediately from all NRL and representative fixtures.

They held their press conference and told us all how innocent they were... prove it or f**k off.

 

[bileduct]

News Ltd!!! Anything to scare the Storm boys from going further with legal action.

You'd think the Storm would only be scared if there was some truth to it.

Refusing to cooperate with the investigation would seem to indicate that there is.

 

[beads6]

Of course they knew, Cameron Smith is the worst he was laready on 500k plus a year and wanted more and more. Greedy merkin, even worse than Folau IMO. Also I would love to know what punishments these players are looking at when found guilty..

 

[Iafeta]

Whether Smith signed three contracts or not is a question of fact, and that's pretty easy to answer. Whether it can be proven that he, a reasonable person of normal mental fortitude, would DEFINITELY, beyond reasonable doubt, know that signing three contracts is fraudulent activity?

I'd say that would be pretty hard to prove - there's just so many 'what-ifs', some of which have already been raised in this thread.

The test is more would a person of sound mind be reasonably able to attest that in a normal situation signing multiple versions of the same contract simply with different stipulated pay amounts, two of which he knows he will not receive one of which he will, is whether it is reasonable to assume he/she knows is being deceptive and/or misleading. There would be some kind of onus on the player to challenge why two invalid contracts are being submitted, and I think its reasonable to assume that he knows two are being used to mislead.

If it's proven this is the case that they did sign three versions of player contracts at the same time, I doubt they would have too much of a leg to stand on. If this story is correct, and this is what happened, then the next few months will be very interesting. Deregistration by the NRL if this is the case is probably inevitable, how far further it goes will be difficult to say, but I'd suggest the above is more the test of whether the players were complicit in fraudulent activities.

It seems interesting that the weekend this particular article comes out, Cameron Smith on a Friday Night game says to the referee that basically they have nothing left to lose. I wonder whether the advent of what was coming in the press caused this boilover from him.

 

[kia ora storm]

Smith did look like a leader under a lot of pressure on Friday and this is obviously impacting him a lot.