Some players knew

[84 Baby]

tbh i think the player managers need to be held accountable for this. They are the ones trying to get the maximum dollar for the players and are meant to be acting in there best interests...as far as i'm aware sometimes the player doesn't really know the exact details of the contract, just the amount but not exactly what has been negotiated. The players managers surely would have known about this and they are being paid by the players to act responsibly. All player managers involved should have there license taken off them IMO

The problem is if it does pan out to be a massive rort constructed by player managers and Storm officials, then it doesn't matter if the players knew nothing of the rort contained in their contracts, it's their name and signature on the contract therefore they are legally responsible for what is in the contract and if any criminal ramifications (tax evasion for example) occur it is the players, not the managers, in trouble. The fraud part will come into the picture as part of the NRL's case (legal or by NRL rules) against the Melbourne Storm where they'll sanction each of the guilty parties (club, players, managers).

News Ltd's actions could be a criminal and/or civil case for misappropriation against the club officials involved, including players if they were involved.

This leaves players legal avenues as action against the player managers... could be very difficult to prove.

Seriously it'd be naive to think the end of this will occur before the start of next year and they surely can't allow the Storm to not play for points next year... Interesting offseason coming

 

[bartman]

So long as the Storm dismantle their playing squad, register new fresh (and turthful!) contracts for their continuing squad with the NRL to ensure they are under the cap, I'm happy for them to play for points in 2011.

However, the Storm at all levels seem to be resisting the simple truth that they have to dismantle their squad and make it legal in order to be able to compete for points again. They are dragging the chain and playing the victim, when they brought it all on themselves.

I don't care how long the court procedings take to reveal the whole truth of the grubby affair, that can go on into mid-next year. But the Storm have to start dismantling their squad soon ready for 2011 either way, instead of "standing united" :roll:.

 

[tkr]

What the Storm have done is disgracefull but the leaking of this information while an inquiry is going on is very un-professional as well [-X

As for multiple contracts? Well I see it this way, if I am offered more money to play a sport why turn it down?

Do I think the players had an inkling of what was going on?
Absolutely, but....at the end of the day the club made the decision to try and circumvent the Salary Cap and so it is the club that should be punished.

Earlier comments about the ATO being an interested party are an intersting twist that I had not thought about...:-k.

Cam Smith (amongst others) does need to go a bit quiet in the media about NRL players not earning enough because he is starting to look like a spoilt brat who is not getting what he want's and it makes him look more guilty each time he goes on about it.

 

[The EELiminator]

What the Storm have done is disgracefull but the leaking of this information while an inquiry is going on is very un-professional as well [-X

baxter is as bad as waldron full of hype and innuendo but won't spill the beans

 

[84 Baby]

Do I think the players had an inkling of what was going on?
Absolutely, but....at the end of the day the club made the decision to try and circumvent the Salary Cap and so it is the club that should be punished.

From what I understand of the cap procedures, all players paid by an NRL club must divulge all payments made to or made on behalf of them or an associate by the NRL club. Therefore if the players were doing the right thing, this saga should have been uncovered ages ago.

Earlier comments about the ATO being an interested party are an intersting twist that I had not thought about...:-k.

If the ATO has not been informed of the total that the players were paid, the club and players have some massive issues considering the players deal in 6 figure incomes.

Cam Smith (amongst others) does need to go a bit quiet in the media about NRL players not earning enough because he is starting to look like a spoilt brat who is not getting what he want's and it makes him look more guilty each time he goes on about it.

Starting? Since he opened his mouth many years ago, I've always thought he was a turd

 

[Fein]

What the Storm have done is disgracefull but the leaking of this information while an inquiry is going on is very un-professional as well [-X

As for multiple contracts? Well I see it this way, if I am offered more money to play a sport why turn it down?

Do I think the players had an inkling of what was going on?
Absolutely, but....at the end of the day the club made the decision to try and circumvent the Salary Cap and so it is the club that should be punished.

Earlier comments about the ATO being an interested party are an intersting twist that I had not thought about...:-k.

Cam Smith (amongst others) does need to go a bit quiet in the media about NRL players not earning enough because he is starting to look like a spoilt brat who is not getting what he want's and it makes him look more guilty each time he goes on about it.

Can't agree with that at all.

It's like an ICAC enquiry into corruption if I can draw an analogy.

Yes, XYZ may have started the ball rolling to get favourable tenders from government sources, however all of those subbies who got in on the act knew it was a rort and wanted to line their pockets from those seeds of corruption.

If the players said "no way, that's against the salary cap", where would Melbourne be today?

 

[The EELiminator]

Do I think the players had an inkling of what was going on?
Absolutely, but....at the end of the day the club made the decision to try and circumvent the Salary Cap and so it is the club that should be punished.

there is no possible way to punish the club without punishing the players as well

 

[Evenflow]

However, the Storm at all levels seem to be resisting the simple truth that they have to dismantle their squad and make it legal in order to be able to compete for points again. They are dragging the chain and playing the victim, when they brought it all on themselves.

I don't care how long the court procedings take to reveal the whole truth of the grubby affair, that can go on into mid-next year. But the Storm have to start dismantling their squad soon ready for 2011 either way, instead of "standing united" :roll:.

They aren't resisting f**k all. They're obviously holding off deciding who they'll have to cut when they know the exact figure they're over. Why would you get rid of a certain player now (whoever) when it may turn out they didn't have to? There's been figures bandied about that they're anything from between $600k to $1.3 million over, even in todays paper it was stated that the players were told in the last few days that they may not be as far over as has been reported in the media.

Who knows if that's true but that's exactly my point, How the hell are they meant to make an informed decision on who to keep and who to cut when there's so much uncertainty on the exact figure? Especially when it's such a massivley important decision in the future of the club? They don't have to cut anyone until they're good and ready and certainly not just to appease opposition fans. As long as they have a legal team under the cap by the start of next year it's got f**k all to do with anyone not involved with the club how and when they go about it.

You're carrying on like it's Storm's choice to hold out and are deliberately doing so but nothing could be further from the truth. They want the findings to be known ASAP so they can start re-negotiating contracts. Even the biggest numpty around here could see the longer this audit goes on the worse it'll be for the club because they're much more at risk of losing players. Tolman couldn't wait any longer as the Dogs threatened to pull their offer (fair enough on their part) and you can bet your arse there's others of the 14 players off contract in the exact same predicament, Dane Neilsen is one that it's definitely known he is. Add Jeff Lima to that who 100% won't be there next year either and i reckon it's fair to say the Storm have already started to be dismantled.

 

[StormChaser]

Bitterman needs to untwist his knickers and get the sand out of his vadge.

 

[Jatz Crackers]

They aren't resisting f**k all. They're obviously holding off deciding who they'll have to cut when they know the exact figure they're over. Why would you get rid of a certain player now (whoever) when it may turn out they didn't have to? There's been figures bandied about that they're anything from between $600k to $1.3 million over, even in todays paper it was stated that the players were told in the last few days that they may not be as far over as has been reported in the media.

Who knows if that's true but that's exactly my point, How the hell are they meant to make an informed decision on who to keep and who to cut when there's so much uncertainty on the exact figure? Especially when it's such a massivley important decision in the future of the club? They don't have to cut anyone until they're good and ready and certainly not just to appease opposition fans. As long as they have a legal team under the cap by the start of next year it's got f**k all to do with anyone not involved with the club how and when they go about it.

You're carrying on like it's Storm's choice to hold out and are deliberately doing so but nothing could be further from the truth. They want the findings to be known ASAP so they can start re-negotiating contracts. Even the biggest numpty around here could see the longer this audit goes on the worse it'll be for the club because they're much more at risk of losing players. Tolman couldn't wait any longer as the Dogs threatened to pull their offer (fair enough on their part) and you can bet your arse there's others of the 14 players off contract in the exact same predicament, Dane Neilsen is one that it's definitely known he is. Add Jeff Lima to that who 100% won't be there next year either and i reckon it's fair to say the Storm have already started to be dismantled.

Thats all very well & i dont disagree with the proposition that the storm club needs to be aware of the boundaries prior to implementing whatever the next step resurrection plans are including divestment of personnel.

But im pretty sure the underlying meaning of bartmans post is the attitudinal resistance of storm fans on here. VadgeChaser included ;-)

 

[bartman]

Look - this will all come out in the wash once this (hopefully) thorough investigation is complete.

However, for people to cling to leaked tidbits either from Greg Baxter or News Limited-owned publications is pretty stupid and does nothing else other than prove people on this site are easily led and have a distint inability to think for themselves.

Could easily have read...

However, for people to cling to leaked tidbits either from Craig Bellamy or the Storm players themselves is pretty stupid and does nothing else other than prove people on this site are easily led and have a distinct inability to think for themselves.

:sarcasm:

 

[bartman]

Who knows if that's true but that's exactly my point, How the hell are they meant to make an informed decision on who to keep and who to cut when there's so much uncertainty on the exact figure? Especially when it's such a massivley important decision in the future of the club? They don't have to cut anyone until they're good and ready and certainly not just to appease opposition fans. As long as they have a legal team under the cap by the start of next year it's got f**k all to do with anyone not involved with the club how and when they go about it.

My point is that they should have to make cuts now, not just wait until the off-season. People thought the penalty was too harsh - it's not harsh enough for this type of caper, imo.

You're carrying on like it's Storm's choice to hold out and are deliberately doing so but nothing could be further from the truth.

Are they or are they not taking unnecessary court action, in a laughable bid to try and have the penalties waived?

They want the findings to be known ASAP so they can start re-negotiating contracts.

The findings are known - they are well over the cap and need to start cutting players. Yet they continue this "united we stand" nonsense and players refuse to cooperate with Deloittes...

Tolman couldn't wait any longer as the Dogs threatened to pull their offer (fair enough on their part) and you can bet your arse there's others of the 14 players off contract in the exact same predicament, Dane Neilsen is one that it's definitely known he is. Add Jeff Lima to that who 100% won't be there next year either and i reckon it's fair to say the Storm have already started to be dismantled.

Not re-signing or replacing three of your lesser off-contract players isn't starting to dismantle the illegally assembled playing roster, by any stretch of anyone's imagination. :crazy:

 

[bartman]

Bitterman needs to untwist his knickers and get the sand out of his vadge.

No SC, he just needs to keep calmly putting forward the alternate views to the arguments being presented in this part of the internet forum ;-).

I don't take issue at any Storm fan who holds a different opinion to mine, but I will continue to discuss the opinions while they're here.

 

[El Diablo]

http://www.nrl.com/news/news/newsar...owners-put-storm-stars-on-notice/default.aspx

Club owners put Storm stars on notice

By David Beniuk AAP Fri, 11 Jun 2010 17:05:35

Melbourne Storm owners News Ltd have warned there will be consequences for any player proven to have known their NRL contract breached salary cap rules.

Stopping short of saying players aware of irregularities in their contracts would be the first shown the door in any clean-out, News spokesman Greg Baxter said the company would take a dim view.

It had been assumed the Storm's stable of superstars had no knowledge of the club's massive salary cap rort, a position News is no longer prepared to take.

Reports have suggested captain Cameron Smith had three different contracts with the club.

"We've said all along that we've not seen any evidence that players were involved," Baxter told AAP on Friday.

"Based on certain things that (News' auditor) Deloitte has reported to us, we're no longer in a position to say that with the same degree of confidence."

The Storm players, minus their State of Origin stars, met Deloitte representatives on Wednesday and were asked to provide copies of their contracts to the auditing firm next week.

The players, though, have been reluctant to do so and their managers have been examining the confidentiality agreement with Deloitte.

Baxter said questions about who knew what could largely be cleared up by the players' cooperation.

"That's an issue that Deloitte are obviously keen to clear up by seeing the documents the players have and talking to them," he said.

But he added News boss John Hartigan's warning to those at the club involved in the breach applied across the board.

"John Hartigan has said that anybody at the club or anybody associated with the club who was either involved in these breaches or was aware that they were taking place and was somehow complicit in them, there would be consequences for those people," Baxter said.

Asked if players who knew their contracts were irregular would be the first culled to help get the club under the cap, he said: "It's really going to depend on what information comes out of the investigation."

The Storm are reportedly $850,000 over the cap this year and will be $1.5 million over in 2011.

Baxter said exact figures were not yet available but the size of the rort had been increasing.

"Until we've got some clarity I think all the numbers are guesswork but, from a trend point of view, certainly the numbers have been growing rather than declining," he said.

He said the club would not be in a position to begin making decisions on which players it will shed until after the investigation is complete.

"Until you get to a point where you're happy with the numbers that you've got ... it's impossible to form a view about how the club will manage it's playing list for next year in a way that brings it back under the cap," he said.

 

[KaboobieGarfunkelShazam]

Interesting article, however, how the club can take that position puzzles me a bit.

I would imagine if any players did know they had "hiddens" in their contract (or extra contracts), then it would likely have been at the persuasion and coaxing of the club and their management.

While the players might have known, I couldn't imagine they would have been the ones pro-actively engineering any rorts. Their job is football, whereby club officials and agents jobs are geared towards performance indicators of success and making money respectively.

A few re-assuring words from these figures to the players such as "it'll be all right", "don't worry, every club does it" is not hard to imagine.

It is also not hard to imagine them being apprehensive about supplying particulars if they have been led in this manner.

They may have viewed it at the time as not being any more serious than an average worker claiming the maximum allowable dry cleaning tax deduction available which did not require receipted proof. I do think it would come down to how those paid to guide them, actually guided them, with their own self-interest more in mind than the players.

While their is some culpability for the players, if they had knowledge (if any), I think the bulk of it lies with officials and agents - it is their job to be persuasive, and guide the players in this manner.

For the owners of the club to speculate about directing such a great proportion of blame towards the players themselves, rather than at the club or their agents, I find strange.

 

[Evenflow]

However, the Storm at all levels seem to be resisting the simple truth that they have to dismantle their squad and make it legal in order to be able to compete for points again. They are dragging the chain and playing the victim, when they brought it all on themselves.

I don't care how long the court procedings take to reveal the whole truth of the grubby affair, that can go on into mid-next year. But the Storm have to start dismantling their squad soon ready for 2011 either way, instead of "standing united" :roll:.

Then this from Greg Baxter, News Limited lackey who is clearly no friend of the Storm.....

"Until we've got some clarity I think all the numbers are guesswork but, from a trend point of view, certainly the numbers have been growing rather than declining," he said.

He said the club would not be in a position to begin making decisions on which players it will shed until after the investigation is complete.

"Until you get to the point where you're happy with the numbers that you've got...it's impossible to form a view how the club will manage it's playing list for next year in a way it brings it under the cap.

Nuff said, end of until the audit is over which pretty much confirms what i said. Regardless of your own personal opinions/agendas (obviously fuelled by your blind hatred of the Storm) there are processess in place that have to be adhered to and that includes waiting until the entire audit process is over to decide who they will and won't get rid of and who they'll keep.

Yeah yeah i'll save you and everyone else the trouble by protesting "But but but, the Storm didn't adhere to the processes to the processes in the first place blah blah blah" but that was the former Storm admin who clearly cheated and put the club in the position it's in right now. The current admin want to do everything in their powere to do what's best for the club, members and supporters hence why they they're waiting until they know exactly what they're dealing with. Surely that's ridiculously simple to comprehend isn't it? Whether you like it or not it's just the way it is so the sooner you get over it the better off you'll be.



.

 

[bartman]

Then this from Greg Baxter, News Limited lackey who is clearly no friend of the Storm.....

Probably because he's been given the job of cleaning the grubby joint up! No wonder no-one wants to be his friend.

The current admin want to do everything in their powere to do what's best for the club, members and supporters hence why they they're waiting until they know exactly what they're dealing with. Surely that's ridiculously simple to comprehend isn't it? Whether you like it or not it's just the way it is so the sooner you get over it the better off you'll be.

So why are the players having second thoughts about co-operating? Surely this "new administration" would take a dim view of that... if they want this all out in the open and resolved.

 

[Evenflow]

LOL has been given the job of what of what? Delloite have been given the job of cleaning the place up, Baxter is there for nothing more than to be the News Limited mouthpiece and to leak information to the Telecrap.

Anyway, as has been mentioned the Storm can and will only make decisions on players futures when the audit is complete no matter how many conspiracies theories you would like to pull out of your arse. Anyone with half a brain can see their hands are tied in both culling players and negotiating new contracts. But by all means keep clutching away at those staws bart, your cluelessness is nothing else if not amusing.

 

[El Diablo]

Then this from Greg Baxter, News Limited lackey who is clearly no friend of the Storm

:lol:

if he was no friend of your club then he would have pulled the plug on them

 

[Evenflow]

You've spent years bitching, moaning, sooking and no doubt literally crying in your room about how News Limited have f**ked up our game, brought it to it's knees and are the scum of the earth amongst many many other things and now you're calling them friends of the Storm just because yet again it suits your agenda and argument? Make up your multiple mind/s you numpty are they friend or foe? Lol


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