What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Souths Duty of Care

Card Shark

Immortal
Messages
32,237
Have both club doctors rule on a concussion.

As if that would work.

We are already saying doctors allow their players back on because they have a vested interest in them being available.

Opposite will happen if the opposing doctor gets involved.

Will be an argument every 2nd time.
 

ram raid

Bench
Messages
4,074
To what end? If the NRL can't trust club doctors to place the welfare of the player above all else in monitoring concussion what else do they need an independent doctor to supervise, it's a slippery slope. The sanctions are there to alter behaviour, if they are severe enough and followed through on then it ties the clubs interests to the doctors interests of protecting the player. If clubs believe they could lose the points for a win anyway if they put a concussed player back on they won't do it.
You either trust the club doctors to put the players welfare first or you don't, I don't think you can pick and choose which situations they can be expected to act according to the interests of the player.

It's not a slippery slope. Slippery slope to where?

It works in boxing. If a fighter is too damaged to play on in spite if his will to, the referee will intervene. Nobody would ever suggest things go further than that.
 

insert.pause

First Grade
Messages
6,461
It's not a slippery slope. Slippery slope to where?

It works in boxing. If a fighter is too damaged to play on in spite if his will to, the referee will intervene. Nobody would ever suggest things go further than that.

it is a slippery slope because if the NRL needs an independent doctor for concussion because of club doctors being pressured into making decisions not in the interests of the players welfare, what else do they need independent doctors to monitor, you either trust club doctors to act in the best interests of the players at all times or not at all.
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
45,969
By the way PEABRAIN , i said i preferred the CLUB DOCTOR who knew the players . I never said that the clubs should not have legit Doctors. You are a moron and shit head for changing what i said to support your PEABRAIN response.

As for the boxing example .........simple if anyone here is wanting themselves on Souths Duty of Care and FOLLOWs boxing , then they are a joke. If you do not get that you are a PEABRAIN of inconsistency
yes you did. You clearly said you prefer club doctors over legit doctors..

you even capitalized it for us to emphasise the difference..

and boxing only entered the equation after you raised it..

not sure why you feel the need to start yelling and calling names.. Everyone else here is having a mature conversation..
 

insert.pause

First Grade
Messages
6,461
As if that would work.

We are already saying doctors allow their players back on because they have a vested interest in them being available.

Opposite will happen if the opposing doctor gets involved.

Will be an argument every 2nd time.

Doctors are allegedly making these decisions under pressure from the clubs, if you include the opposition club doctor in the decision clubs will have no influence on the outcome. Its about empowering the club doctors to make a decision without the threat of losing their job.
 

DiegoNT

First Grade
Messages
9,378
We trust the doctors to make decisions on all injuries, but they can't be trusted with concussions? Do people really think an opposition teams doctor will not be under pressure from their club to rule out opposition players if we used a system that meant both club doctors have to agree to let the player back on
 

ram raid

Bench
Messages
4,074
it is a slippery slope because if the NRL needs an independent doctor for concussion because of club doctors being pressured into making decisions not in the interests of the players welfare, what else do they need independent doctors to monitor, you either trust club doctors to act in the best interests of the players at all times or not at all.

I don't see why they'd need to monitor anything else. And I personally don't trust club physicians.

Your solution of stripping clubs of points is one option, but I can't see it being very practical. How do you tell if a club failed its duty of care by letting a concussed player play on when on Monday morning the player is perfectly cognizant?
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
45,969
the independent doctor simply becomes another official..

just like a linesman.. Or a ref..

just a lot more important...
 

insert.pause

First Grade
Messages
6,461
I don't see why they'd need to monitor anything else. And I personally don't trust club physicians.

Your solution of stripping clubs of points is one option, but I can't see it being very practical. How do you tell if a club failed its duty of care by letting a concussed player play on when on Monday morning the player is perfectly cognizant?

They fail their duty of care when they let a concussed player back on the field in contravention of the NRL concussion rules. Peats and Reynolds were obviously concussed, anything subtle requires SCAT3, if they fail it they are concussed.
 
Messages
4,980
Doctors are allegedly making these decisions under pressure from the clubs, if you include the opposition club doctor in the decision clubs will have no influence on the outcome. Its about empowering the club doctors to make a decision without the threat of losing their job.

This gets mentioned a lot but I notice it's always a broad statement rather than a specific one like "parramatta club doctor has been pressured by x....."

I don't think anyone is game enough to call out a specific doctor and club official for risk of being sued.

Whether they have made the correct decision or not is debatable, but I think most docs have the best interests of the players at heart.
 

ram raid

Bench
Messages
4,074
They fail their duty of care when they let a concussed player back on the field in contravention of the NRL concussion rules. Peats and Reynolds were obviously concussed, anything subtle requires SCAT3, if they fail it they are concussed.

Yeah but that could be pretty nebulous to determine post hoc.

NRL "You failed in your duty of care because Nigel Mansell was clearly concussed"

Club: "No he wasn't he was rigorously tested by our sacrosanct medical professionals and deemed fine"

NRL? "Then why did he look like he'd just been king hit with a baseball bat"?

Club: He didn't''t, I gave him a rimjob at half time and he was still experiencing post-orgasm bliss."
 

Nice Beaver

First Grade
Messages
5,920
By the way PEABRAIN , i said i preferred the CLUB DOCTOR who knew the players . I never said that the clubs should not have legit Doctors. You are a moron and shit head for changing what i said to support your PEABRAIN response.

As for the boxing example .........simple if anyone here is wanting themselves on Souths Duty of Care and FOLLOWs boxing , then they are a joke. If you do not get that you are a PEABRAIN of inconsistency

If you are a doctor who "needs to know" the player to diagnose concussion then your name is Dr Nick Riviera.

What a stupid fu*king comment. A shock to us all.....

Back to the shadow boxing, dinosaur.
 

Galeforce

Bench
Messages
2,602
If you are a doctor who "needs to know" the player to diagnose concussion then your name is Dr Nick Riviera.

What a stupid fu*king comment. A shock to us all.....

Back to the shadow boxing, dinosaur.

What a stupid response from you .......why am i surprised what a "Nice Merkin" would state.
If you prefer an Independent Doctor to review your Manly players versus a Manly Club Doctor , then go and petition Manly. What is Tooveys' view on this , i suspect he would call you a Nice Beaver as well. Dope
 

Galeforce

Bench
Messages
2,602
yes you did. You clearly said you prefer club doctors over legit doctors..

you even capitalized it for us to emphasise the difference..

and boxing only entered the equation after you raised it..

not sure why you feel the need to start yelling and calling names.. Everyone else here is having a mature conversation..


1) Club Doctors are LEGIT doctors you dope.
and i emphasised that point even in the last note you Quoted me .

2) the simple question is do you prefer to see a Doctor who knows you , has treated you before or do you prefer to see an Unknown independent Doctor?

3) Yes i entered Boxing into the equation. If you do not like Boxing , then will not be a good example for you.

As for calling you a names , easy , you delight not in have a mature conversation but rather looking for the mickey for your fun.As referenced by the way you look for angles to respond and twist comments from others. Frankly i am bored with that type of responses and ignore them or abusing them for my own fun.
 

Danish

Referee
Messages
32,018
In boxing a man who gets knocked unconscious isn't allowed to fight or even spar for 3 months. If they are knocked out for over a minute, that increases to 6 months. Hell even a boxer who simply gets stopped in a TKO is barred from boxing for 30 days.

Bringing boxing into the equation as a means of defending souths sending concussed players back onto the field is one of the most uninformed and stupid arguments you could make
 

Bigcoq

Juniors
Messages
334
In boxing a man who gets knocked unconscious isn't allowed to fight or even spar for 3 months. If they are knocked out for over a minute, that increases to 6 months. Hell even a boxer who simply gets stopped in a TKO is barred from boxing for 30 days.

Bringing boxing into the equation as a means of defending souths sending concussed players back onto the field is one of the most uninformed and stupid arguments you could make
boxing ain't Rugby League..
 

Nice Beaver

First Grade
Messages
5,920
What a stupid response from you .......why am i surprised what a "Nice Merkin" would state.
If you prefer an Independent Doctor to review your Manly players versus a Manly Club Doctor , then go and petition Manly. What is Tooveys' view on this , i suspect he would call you a Nice Beaver as well. Dope

:lol:

You really are borderline geniused.

What sort of imbecile thinks a doctor needs to know the person to diagnose concussion?? :crazy:

:lol:
 

sensesmaybenumbed

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
29,225
1) Club Doctors are LEGIT doctors you dope.
and i emphasised that point even in the last note you Quoted me .

2) the simple question is do you prefer to see a Doctor who knows you , has treated you before or do you prefer to see an Unknown independent Doctor?

3) Yes i entered Boxing into the equation. If you do not like Boxing , then will not be a good example for you.

As for calling you a names , easy , you delight not in have a mature conversation but rather looking for the mickey for your fun.As referenced by the way you look for angles to respond and twist comments from others. Frankly i am bored with that type of responses and ignore them or abusing them for my own fun.

He found it....
 

POPEYE

Coach
Messages
11,397
The doctor I see regularly is only a means of refilling prescriptions, I don't think him capable of doing what my specialist does. If it is thought that doctors who are specialists in concussion are necessary and the cost is warranted they should be sought out, but to imagine they would be bias towards the club employing them is ludicrous

Maybe the NRL should employ a handful of qualified people and roster them to games, take the onus away from clubs who everyone knows are 'struggling to make ends meet'
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
45,969
1) Club Doctors are LEGIT doctors you dope.
and i emphasised that point even in the last note you Quoted me .

2) the simple question is do you prefer to see a Doctor who knows you , has treated you before or do you prefer to see an Unknown independent Doctor?

3) Yes i entered Boxing into the equation. If you do not like Boxing , then will not be a good example for you.

As for calling you a names , easy , you delight not in have a mature conversation but rather looking for the mickey for your fun.As referenced by the way you look for angles to respond and twist comments from others. Frankly i am bored with that type of responses and ignore them or abusing them for my own fun.

actually i have a rather vested interest in neuro matters and am treating this matter seriously..

you stated this:

Sorry , a LEGIT Doctor should be independent and follow hippocratic oath , re caring for patients. As such I prefer a CLUB doctor because they KNOW the players.


i highlight the word 'prefer' and refer you to a dictionary definition of the word.

prefer
[pri-fur]
to set or hold before or above other persons or things in estimation; like better; choose rather than.

perhaps the word you were looking for was 'independent' rather than 'legitimate'?



and further to boxing, you do realise the boxing has an independent doctor present at the matches? he's essentially an extra official. he has the final say if fighters are fit to continue..

here's an excerpt of the rules..

26. MEDICAL EXAMINATIONS AND REQUIREMENTS
(1) Boxers must pass an approved medical examination before annual registration and the results of
the medical examination must be completed on the forms supplied by the ANBF, The boxer will
then be issued with a medical record book. They also must have a serology test at six monthly
intervals and be classified HIV negative, Hepatitis B antigen negative or immune status and
Hepatitis C negative. It is also necessary that all results of the serology test be disclosed to the
authority issuing the licence. The annual test must be carried out no more than seven days before
the serology medical test.

(2) After completion of the weigh-in or before the contest, and after the completion of each contest, a
boxer shall undergo a medical examination, the result and remarks must be recorded in the
boxer?s medical record book.

(3) The ringside doctor must remain at ringside throughout each contest and make notes of any hardfought
contests or where a boxer seems to be affected to an unusual degree. If the doctor leaves
the ringside during the contest, the referee must stop the bout until he returns to ringside.

(4) If a boxer is knocked out from punches to the head, he must not box again in a contest or in a
gymnasium until the minimum period of twenty eight (28) days has elapsed, unless the ringside
doctor orders a longer period, which must be entered in his medical record book by the ringside
doctor.

(5) In the event of a boxer being knocked out from head punches on two (2) consecutive occasions,
he must not box again for three (3) months, unless the doctor in attendance orders a longer
period.

(6) In the event of a boxer being knocked out from head punches on three (3) consecutive occasions,
he must not box again for at least (6) months. He will not be allowed to box again until
presenting himself to an approved doctor for a complete medical and clearance, which must be
approved by the ANBF. He cannot apply for a clearance until after the six-month suspension has
been served.

(7) The ringside doctor at his discretion may order a longer rest period from boxing in all instances
covered by clauses (4), (5) and (6). The ringside doctor in attendance at any promotion has the
power to order a rest period for any boxer regardless of the outcome of the bout if he considers
he has received excessive punishment or injury. The length of the rest period is at the discretion
of the ringside doctor who may also order a test or examination before the boxer is allowed to
fight or spar again.

(8) Boxers ruled unfit to box must not spar in gymnasiums or participate in exhibitions.

taken from here: (the australian national boxing federation..

http://www.anbf.org/attachedfiles/116_RULEANBF2012.pdf


i mentioned earlier about a condtition called 'CTE' which is what a number of NFL players are being diagnosed with. it's even more prevalent in boxing.


cte.jpg


we are now seeing scientific proof that concussions lead to greater brain injury in later life. this is why we need to do something now, as the repercussions will not be felt till much later (this could also explain why so many ex-footballers suffer depression and a number of addictions in later life..)

but i know it's not just you who doesn't treat head knocks with the right degree of severity.. other souffs fans seem to feel the same way:

I not sure whether I'm on the right track here but I reckon Adam tends to ham up his on-field injuries.
I don't know how many times in the last couple of years he's dropped clutching his knee or shoulder etc--putting the fear of God into all supporters---then springing up 20 seconds later & taking off like a "rabbit."

He certainly[appeared]to have the very wobbly legs the other night but he must have recovered rather quickly.
I must confess it's entered my mind a few times over the last couple of years that he's been trying for an OSCAR!!
 

Latest posts

Top