Stalled and stagnant Sydney clubs

[baselinepanther]

I'm very disappointed with the Cowboys attendances, but I cannot blame people for not being as keen to go to the football in 2022 as they were in 1995. There's so many other forms of entertainment and the cost of living has skyrocketed. Match attendance is expensive and makes little sense for people who are already forking out more than $100 a month for pay TV and broadband.

Maybe the game needs more children's entertainment options at stadia to give families a reason to go to the football?

Maybe clubs could set up a membership program for kids that lets them watch the game from a corporate box fixed with games for them to play if they get bored. It could even be scheduled to last a whole day and be used as an alternative to childcare so that the parents can have some time to themselves. If it's held over a day then the kids could be given a toured guide to the entire stadium and allowed to kick a ball around the field.

the cost of going to live football today as opposed to 1995 is no more a valid excuse for cowboys fans as any NRL fan from anywhere.
TV is affecting attendances everywhere

 

[baselinepanther]

On the previous page I cited the TV ratings, by club, over a few years before COVID-19. The most watched teams were Broncos, Storm and Cowboys. Most Sydney teams drew lowish ratings.

Here's the post.

Stalled and stagnant Sydney clubs

imagine there was an afl fan from Newcastle (australia) going onto afl forums and telling them they should kill off some Melbourne teams for a Newcastle afl team. how do you think they would be perceived. That is a pretty interesting comparison. AFL crowd attendances and memberships are at...

forums.leagueunlimited.com

buddy

those 3 clubs with the possible exception of the broncos are being boosted by Sydney fans watching their team play them
The graph is an utterly useless metric to gauge the relative support of clubs.

 

[Colk]

Every single NSW team has a COE and an U17's, U19's and u21's team.

Where would those 2 examples get 90 odd players a year to field those teams?

QLD sides work slightly different with the QRL aligned club doing the developing. But again all are aligned.

Financial support. Rich owners or Leagues Club ensures no one is going anywhere.

Melbourne with all of their success have still have failed to develop Victorian talent. It took 3 teams folding to start them off well.
Redcliffe and GC in RL heartlands have struggled attracting talent. Adelaide especially would struggle even more

So only using crowds is a small metric of success.

NZ 2 would be my next side in but that said.
Warriors have support but have had a few different owners. Never really had the on field success. Would NZ 2 be different?

Fiji in NSWRL and PNG in QCup are good test cases to see if it is possible but are a long term option

The first counter argument is completely about structure. The question you should ask is whether the structure we have is the right way of going about it? We seem to be one of the only sports that does it the way that we do, so maybe that it is an indication that we don’t do it correctly. If it is used as an argument against expanding and growing the game then maybe it isn’t, considering the game hasn’t grown outside of NSW and QLD and every other code has a national presence?

On the aspect of financials maybe putting a side in an area where there are a lot of corporates is maybe a good idea? We have plenty of sides in areas where there is very little corporate support and see where that has lead those sides.

Crowds and viewership is probably the most important metric there is. Seriously, what is the point of having a side that nobody watches or supports?

 

[baselinepanther]

Interesting.

Firstly I didn’t suggest that all Sydney sides have poor supporter numbers so before you rant read the whole of my post.

Secondly, where is your evidence to back up your claim? Almost all TV evidence is countering your claim. You can also easily view membership numbers, although I am sure that you’ll give me some counter argument that explains why the Roosters, Manly and Sharks for example have such terrible membership numbers. We can also go down the route of low attendance figures but again I am sure there is a counter argument that you can provide.

Thirdly you mention the Cowboys and the Storm and them not having support in NSW and ACT etc. You do realise there is a state called QLD right?

You suggested the cowboys & Storm have more support then Parramatta & some other & tbh that statement would embarrass a patient from a lunatic asylum

I addressed the TV ratings , those figures posted are raw figures with no context. Fact is the Storm V Broncos still has more viewers in Sydney then Melb & Brisbane combined & when a Sydney side is playing those expansion teams , well those Sydney eyeballs fall under those expansion clubs figures. Its nonsense.

As for this ludicrous statement ?

Thirdly you mention the Cowboys and the Storm and them not having support in NSW and ACT etc. You do realise there is a state called QLD right?

introduce yourself to the point sometime , the point I was making is there is vast support for these traditional sydney clubs everywhere .. including QLD .. ya know .. not NSW or the ACT

this is not the case for the cowboys or storm

 

[Perth Red]

No one is saying every club in sydney is underwhelming, just a number of them.
As said you can only measure fanbase but the metrics we have and that have any value, after that your just pssing in the wind. Crowds, memberships, merch sales, tv audiences. After that you’re just guessing gnor going on bs polls like roy Morgan.
given the benefits Sydney clubs have its pretty embarrassing some of them are so low in those metrics!

 

[siv]

What I dont undersrand is WHY all of these non Sydney people are so desperate to join a Sydney/NSW centric comp

Maybe it would be better to start a second comp rather than trying to kill clubs that can survive without an issue

Broncos, Cowboys, Titans, Storm, Dolphins and Warriors are the core then you add Perth, Adelaide, Ipswich, NZ2, PNG and Easts-Brisbane

All problems solved

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

You suggested the cowboys & Storm have more support then Parramatta & some other & tbh that statement would embarrass a patient from a lunatic asylum

I addressed the TV ratings , those figures posted are raw figures with no context. Fact is the Storm V Broncos still has more viewers in Sydney then Melb & Brisbane combined & when a Sydney side is playing those expansion teams , well those Sydney eyeballs fall under those expansion clubs figures. Its nonsense.

As for this ludicrous statement ?

introduce yourself to the point sometime , the point I was making is there is vast support for these traditional sydney clubs everywhere .. including QLD .. ya know .. not NSW or the ACT

this is not the case for the cowboys or storm

What the ratings prove is a Cowboys vs Storm or Cowboys vs Broncos or Broncs vs Storm match will draw higher ratings around the nation than having Russell Crowe's Elmer Fudds run onto Stadium Australia to play the Wests Westies Tiggers in front of 12k fans.

This proves that Cowboys, Broncos and Storm don't need to have fans in cockroach country to draw good ratings in NSW. The NSWRL clubs do have some fans living in Queensland and Victoria, but not enough to rate well in those states.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

What I dont undersrand is WHY all of these non Sydney people are so desperate to join a Sydney/NSW centric comp

Maybe it would be better to start a second comp rather than trying to kill clubs that can survive without an issue

Broncos, Cowboys, Titans, Storm, Dolphins and Warriors are the core then you add Perth, Adelaide, Ipswich, NZ2, PNG and Easts-Brisbane

All problems solved

We tried that in 1995 but the NSWRL chucked a tantrum and went to court.

 

[Wb1234]

No

Maybe someone is? Then again they haven’t let their overstauration stunt their investment in an aggressive expansion strategy so maybe they don’t care so much given it hasn’t held them back like it has us?

Na nobody is

with your extensive knowledge of afl over rugby league you really should be sharing your knowledge with them

 

[reanimate]

There are a whole bunch of lucrative markets RL is missing on

The thing about that particular lucrative market is that it doesn’t need a new team or a huge amount of resources to engage with it, it just needs the existing teams and resources in Sydney to make it work. It’s such a simple solution, yet we’re had over 20 years of inaction and a frustrating status quo that is doing nothing for the game.

 

[Wb1234]

What I dont undersrand is WHY all of these non Sydney people are so desperate to join a Sydney/NSW centric comp

Maybe it would be better to start a second comp rather than trying to kill clubs that can survive without an issue

Broncos, Cowboys, Titans, Storm, Dolphins and Warriors are the core then you add Perth, Adelaide, Ipswich, NZ2, PNG and Easts-Brisbane

All problems solved

It’s funny all the jealousy people have because of the success of the nswrl.

I mean imagine if league had to rely upon the competitions in England or Queensland for the game to be a success.

it’s solely because of the bedrock of the game in Sydney that the nrl is the strongest rugby competition on earth.

 

[Colk]

You suggested the cowboys & Storm have more support then Parramatta & some other & tbh that statement would embarrass a patient from a lunatic asylum

I addressed the TV ratings , those figures posted are raw figures with no context. Fact is the Storm V Broncos still has more viewers in Sydney then Melb & Brisbane combined & when a Sydney side is playing those expansion teams , well those Sydney eyeballs fall under those expansion clubs figures. Its nonsense.

As for this ludicrous statement ?

introduce yourself to the point sometime , the point I was making is there is vast support for these traditional sydney clubs everywhere .. including QLD .. ya know .. not NSW or the ACT

this is not the case for the cowboys or storm

Firstly, where is your evidence that there are more eyeballs in Sydney watching Storm vs Brisbane than in Melbourne and Brisbane combined?

Secondly, you are supposing to know the intention of people responding to a survey which is a pretty slippery slope. Are people claiming to be Cowboys supporters also lying about their support? What about those people who claim to support Sydney sides - is that survey also wrong when it states that the Sharks and Panthers are right down there with the Knights and Raiders?

Thirdly, if there is all this magical support for Sydney sides why doesn’t it correlate to people actually going to games or to taking up memberships. There are only two sides that have strong membership numbers - Souths and Parramatta. Why are the rest below the Storm, Raiders, Knights etc? I noticed that you have also neglected to respond or made a counter claim about memberships for the Roosters, Manly or the Sharks which are absolutely dreadful considering their recent on-field success. Nobody seems to want or is able to give me a reason

Fourthly, sure there are supporters of Sydney sides in QLD - I know that the Dragons and Souths may have strong support in those areas but that doesn’t mean that their support isn’t completely insignificant when compared to that of the Cowboys and the Storm.

The thing about that particular lucrative market is that it doesn’t need a new team or a huge amount of resources to engage with it, it just needs the existing teams and resources in Sydney to make it work. It’s such a simple solution, yet we’re had over 20 years of inaction and a frustrating status quo that is doing nothing for the game.

Agreed. North Sydney is one of those markets which can be improved. Some do need sides though.

As I have stated (and others on this forum) we’re not about killing any of the Sydney sides. What we’re disagreeing with is this notion that all of the Sydney sides are well supported or that nothing needs to be done when obviously that is contrary to reality.

 

[Wb1234]

We tried that in 1995 but the NSWRL chucked a tantrum and went to court.

Don’t worry the nrl is moving to conferences pretty soon. The nsw conference and the left overs conference

 

[baselinepanther]

What the ratings prove is a Cowboys vs Storm or Cowboys vs Broncos or Broncs vs Storm match will draw higher ratings around the nation than having Russell Crowe's Elmer Fudds run onto Stadium Australia to play the Wests Westies Tiggers in front of 12k fans.

but not because of the numbers of viewers in those places , they only add a few extras to the veiwers in NSW , more specifically Sydney proving my point .

Broncos V Cowboys attracted 900K veiwers on the 27th of March ( Sunday afternoon )
Ch 9 476K
Metro 267K
Sydney 137K
Brisbane 115K

more sydneysiders watched a game not involving any sides from NSW then in Brisbane & when STV is included the total figure from Sydney & NSW would have been over 500K. A higher % watch when a NSW team is playing against these expansion teams plus higher numbers of veiwers from QLD or Victoria or where ever then games involving all NSW matches further skewing the accuracy of that graph if you're trying to determine the popularity of the 16 teams in it based on whos' popular on TV & from that , popular overall. Its pointless as I said.

as I said ,
the Cowboys & Storm do not have more fans then Parramatta or pretty much any of the Sydney teams

 

[Colk]

It’s funny all the jealousy people have because of the success of the nswrl.

I mean imagine if league had to rely upon the competitions in England or Queensland for the game to be a success.

it’s solely because of the bedrock of the game in Sydney that the nrl is the strongest rugby competition on earth.

Huh? Why would I or anyone else want Sydney clubs to fail? Or any club for that matter.

I want the game to become strong around the nation/ pacific and complete with and smash aerial ping pong.

Just because you don’t want to address certain issues on support/membership or even perhaps want the game to be played just in Sydney (I don’t know I get the feeling that people want this) that doesn’t mean that people can’t see or aim for something stronger.

 

[baselinepanther]

Firstly, where is your evidence that there are more eyeballs in Sydney watching Storm vs Brisbane than in Melbourne and Brisbane combined?

hahaha

oh dear, maybe TV ratings

I have included an example from a few weeks ago above

 

[Wb1234]

Huh? Why would I or anyone else want Sydney clubs to fail? Or any club for that matter.

I want the game to become strong around the nation/ pacific and complete with and smash aerial ping pong.

Just because you don’t want to address certain issues on support/membership or even perhaps want the game to be played just in Sydney (I don’t know I get the feeling that people want this) that doesn’t mean that people can’t see or aim for something stronger.

If your going to post bs expect people to correct it.

which Sydney clubs are weak ?

heck even Cronulla have net assets of 100 million now. So who ?

 

[Colk]

What I dont undersrand is WHY all of these non Sydney people are so desperate to join a Sydney/NSW centric comp

Maybe it would be better to start a second comp rather than trying to kill clubs that can survive without an issue

Broncos, Cowboys, Titans, Storm, Dolphins and Warriors are the core then you add Perth, Adelaide, Ipswich, NZ2, PNG and Easts-Brisbane

All problems solved

Huh? If we went with your suggestion than the clubs in trouble would be the Sydney clubs.

You can ignore reality as much as you want but the reason why we have the TV dollars and the grants that keep the Sydney teams that we have alive is because of the expansion outside of NSW

 

[Colk]

If your going to post bs expect people to correct it.

which Sydney clubs are weak ?

heck even Cronulla have net assets of 100 million now. So who ?

I have explained this to you at length in earlier posts. It’s even in that post you responded to, namely attendance figures/memberships/viewer numbers. The clubs I noted with weak attendance figures/supporter numbers/viewer numbers were the Sharks, Manly, Roosters and Penrith. The ones with current or historically haveshown to have good numbers are Souths, Parra, Dragons, Canterbury and the Tigers. I thought it was fairly clear in my earlier posts but alas

That’s great news about Cronulla. Hopefully they can increase their supporter and membership numbers.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

It’s funny all the jealousy people have because of the success of the nswrl.

I mean imagine if league had to rely upon the competitions in England or Queensland for the game to be a success.

it’s solely because of the bedrock of the game in Sydney that the nrl is the strongest rugby competition on earth.

The only reason the NSWRFL became the most prosperous RL competition in the world is because the NSW State Government allowed licenced venues to have electronic gaming machines. These devices were illegal in Queensland until the 1990s when the Wayne Goss Labor Government overturned the laws.

The best players of the 80s were produced by the BRL in the late 70s and 80s and poached by the NSWRFL clubs using revenue provided by pokies in their Leagues Clubs.

The whole State of Origin concept was created by the QRL, to the chagrin of the Sydney media and NSWRFL, who claimed it was stupid and wouldn't work. They even tried to prevent it from being played!

If the NSWRFL had their way then the game's showpiece event wouldn't exist and our game would have even less exposure around the country.

NSWRL has caused more harm than good to our game over the decades with its narrow-mindedness and self-interest.