Stalled and stagnant Sydney clubs

[Wb1234]

Penrith ….currently the best rugby league club o

Huh? If we went with your suggestion than the clubs in trouble would be the Sydney clubs.

You can ignore reality as much as you want but the reason why we have the TV dollars and the grants that keep the Sydney teams that we have alive is because of the expansion outside of NSW

other than the broncos the remaining clubs add little to the tv deal tb

The only reason the NSWRFL became the most prosperous RL competition in the world is because the NSW State Government allowed licenced venues to have electronic gaming machines. These devices were illegal in Queensland until the 1990s when the Wayne Goss Labor Government overturned the laws.

The best players of the 80s were produced by the BRL in the late 70s and 80s and poached by the NSWRFL clubs using revenue provided by pokies in their Leagues Clubs.

The whole State of Origin concept was created by the QRL, to the chagrin of the Sydney media and NSWRFL, who claimed it was stupid and wouldn't work. They even tried to prevent it from being played!

If the NSWRFL had their way then the game's showpiece event wouldn't exist and our game would have even less exposure around the country.

NSWRL has caused more harm than good to our game over the decades with its narrow-mindedness and self-interest.

lmao the nswrl was bigger than the qrl in 1908. Well before poker machines. That dominance was never challenged

poker machines didn’t come around until the 1960s

even now nsw supports ten nrl clubs and Queensland will have four. And two of the Queensland clubs are small

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

but not because of the numbers of viewers in those places , they only add a few extras to the veiwers in NSW , more specifically Sydney proving my point .

Broncos V Cowboys attracted 900K veiwers on the 27th of March ( Sunday afternoon )
Ch 9 476K
Metro 267K
Sydney 137K
Brisbane 115K

more sydneysiders watched a game not involving any sides from NSW then in Brisbane & when STV is included the total figure from Sydney & NSW would have been over 500K. A higher % watch when a NSW team is playing against these expansion teams plus higher numbers of veiwers from QLD or Victoria or where ever then games involving all NSW matches further skewing the accuracy of that graph if you're trying to determine the popularity of the 16 teams in it based on whos' popular on TV & from that , popular overall. Its pointless as I said.

as I said ,
the Cowboys & Storm do not have more fans then Parramatta or pretty much any of the Sydney teams

So what you're saying is Sydney doesn't need to have any teams in the NRL because RL fans who live there will happily watch Brisbane vs North Queensland?

Good!

Well then, we can get rid of at least four Sydney sides that have low memberships, poor attendances and draw terrible ratings around the country and replace them with Brisbane 3, NZ 2, NZ 3 and Perth. That'll help improve ratings nationally and in NZ, bringing more money into the game that can be spent on junior development in the AwFuL states.

Seriously though, what the data shows is the drop off in viewers when a Queensland team or the Storm aren't playing is much greater than the drop in NSW when no Sydney team is playing. That makes the teams from outside of NSW more valuable to the broadcasters, especially Foxtel. It's why News Ltd had a stake in Brisbane, Storm and Cowboys but never gave a f**k about Rabbitohs, Magpies and Tigers.

The most valuable team in the competition is Brisbane Broncos.

"The highest rating game of the season was in round 1 between Melbourne and Brisbane, which rated 1.183 million. Filling out the top 5 was Brisbane v Nth Queensland (R2), Brisbane v St George (R3), South Sydney v Brisbane (R8) and Brisbane v Parramatta (R24)"

2019 NRL season by the TV ratings numbers - Sports Industry AU

Its been another big year for Rugby League in 2019 as 113.5 million people tuned in to see the preseason, home and away season, NRLW, Origin, Representative footy and finals. However, while this figure was enough to get it over the AFL again in 2019, it was down more than 6% on the...

www.footyindustry.com

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Penrith ….currently the best rugby league club o

other than the broncos the remaining clubs add little to the tv deal tb

lmao the nswrl was bigger than the qrl in 1908. Well before poker machines. That dominance was never challenged

poker machines didn’t come around until the 1960s

even now nsw supports ten nrl clubs and Queensland will have four. And two of the Queensland clubs are small

The NSWRFL acquired onionball players in 1908. The QRL didn't acquire onionball players until that game was shut down after WWI. Around this time the QRL started beating NSWRL.

Gaming machines legalised in NSW in 1956. The name of the bill is "The Gaming and Betting (Poker Machines) ACT Act No. 17, 1956"

https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/view/pdf/asmade/act-1956-17

The first gaming machines to operate legally in Australia were introduced in Sydney in 1956. NSW has the bulk of Australia's pokies and Australia has one-fifth of all pokies in the world.

Here's a gaming machine that was produced in Sydney between 1995 and 1960 by a company called Aristocrat Company. It was used in Leagues Clubs and is now on display in a Melbourne museum.

Poker Machine - 'Clubmaster Gold Award Super Jackpot', 1955-1960

Alternative names: Gaming Machine, One Arm Bandit, Slot Machine, Pokie Gaming machine manufactured in Sydney by the Aristocrat Company between 1955 and 1960, and used at leagues clubs and other gaming venues throughout NSW. Machines such as this would have been used by Victorians holidaying in...

collections.museumsvictoria.com.au

 

[Iamback]

The first counter argument is completely about structure. The question you should ask is whether the structure we have is the right way of going about it? We seem to be one of the only sports that does it the way that we do, so maybe that it is an indication that we don’t do it correctly. If it is used as an argument against expanding and growing the game then maybe it isn’t, considering the game hasn’t grown outside of NSW and QLD and every other code has a national presence?

On the aspect of financials maybe putting a side in an area where there are a lot of corporates is maybe a good idea? We have plenty of sides in areas where there is very little corporate support and see where that has lead those sides.

Crowds and viewership is probably the most important metric there is. Seriously, what is the point of having a side that nobody watches or supports?

Because the current system works. Clubs are producing some outstanding no need to change what isn't broken.

You seen jerseys lately? No shortage of sponsors so money coming in.

Using the metric GC would be last they have had 10 years of garbage crowds.

Broncos have fallen off the cliff with crowds. Should they go on that alone?

TV ratings are flying. So who doesn't watch the sport

 

[Iamback]

If your going to post bs expect people to correct it.

which Sydney clubs are weak ?

heck even Cronulla have net assets of 100 million now. So who ?

Someone should compare Sharks to Titans

 

[Iamback]

Storm have 30k members - free membership
Yet have 15k turn up.

For all their success 3 Sydney teams ave more to games

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Because the current system works. Clubs are producing some outstanding no need to change what isn't broken.

You seen jerseys lately? No shortage of sponsors so money coming in.

Using the metric GC would be last they have had 10 years of garbage crowds.

Broncos have fallen off the cliff with crowds. Should they go on that alone?

TV ratings are flying. So who doesn't watch the sport

Titans are one of the least watched teams on TV, I'm afraid to say. I want to see the club succeed but it always takes one step forward followed by 2 steps backwards.

 

[Iamback]

Titans are one of the least watched teams on TV, I'm afraid to say. I want to see the club succeed but it always takes one step forward followed by 2 steps backwards.

Yep and a new team coming in...No team should go but my point is if you use metrics. Regional teams would go 1st but RL is unique and works well in the smaller markets.

Offset by corporate and traditional support in Sydney

 

[Colk]

Because the current system works. Clubs are producing some outstanding no need to change what isn't broken.

You seen jerseys lately? No shortage of sponsors so money coming in.

Using the metric GC would be last they have had 10 years of garbage crowds.

Broncos have fallen off the cliff with crowds. Should they go on that alone?

TV ratings are flying. So who doesn't watch the sport

The method doesn’t work because you can’t expand beyond NSW and Qld.

It’s a perfect Catch 22 situation - you can’t develop talent in WA or SA or PNG etc because you don’t have a club there and you have people like you arguing against the merits of any of these options because there is no talent developed there. It’s a self limiting proposal.

If you have a centralised development program other than having the clubs invest in junior development, you can directly invest in areas to grow the game.

Also, for every Penrith, you have a GC or Newcastle or Cronulla who were too broke to develop talent in any meaningful money. Why should we hamstring development in these areas which is for the betterment of the whole game just because of the commercial problems of those clubs. Again that is self defeating.

On the aspect of GC, I have outlined how they are a concern. That doesn’t mean what I have said about Sydney clubs or expanding to areas outside of traditional RL areas any less valid

 

[Colk]

Someone should compare Sharks to Titans

Sure but doesn’t mean that the Sharks have mountains of support either.

 

[Colk]

Storm have 30k members - free membership
Yet have 15k turn up.

For all their success 3 Sydney teams ave more to games

Success has helped the Storm. That is unarguable. They still average more than most of the Sydney teams though including one in particular that has had comparable success to them. They average more than Manly also who have had massive success as well.

Again if any new side averaged the same as those two we would have people talking about how the expansion has failed.

 

[Wb1234]

The NSWRFL acquired onionball players in 1908. The QRL didn't acquire onionball players until that game was shut down after WWI. Around this time the QRL started beating NSWRL.

Gaming machines legalised in NSW in 1956. The name of the bill is "The Gaming and Betting (Poker Machines) ACT Act No. 17, 1956"

https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/view/pdf/asmade/act-1956-17

The first gaming machines to operate legally in Australia were introduced in Sydney in 1956. NSW has the bulk of Australia's pokies and Australia has one-fifth of all pokies in the world.

Here's a gaming machine that was produced in Sydney between 1995 and 1960 by a company called Aristocrat Company. It was used in Leagues Clubs and is now on display in a Melbourne museum.

Poker Machine - 'Clubmaster Gold Award Super Jackpot', 1955-1960

Alternative names: Gaming Machine, One Arm Bandit, Slot Machine, Pokie Gaming machine manufactured in Sydney by the Aristocrat Company between 1955 and 1960, and used at leagues clubs and other gaming venues throughout NSW. Machines such as this would have been used by Victorians holidaying in...

collections.museumsvictoria.com.au

Thanks for confirming what I posted previously

 

[Perth Red]

What I dont undersrand is WHY all of these non Sydney people are so desperate to join a Sydney/NSW centric comp

Maybe it would be better to start a second comp rather than trying to kill clubs that can survive without an issue

Broncos, Cowboys, Titans, Storm, Dolphins and Warriors are the core then you add Perth, Adelaide, Ipswich, NZ2, PNG and Easts-Brisbane

All problems solved

Funny, could have sworn it’s called NATIONAL Rugby League

 

[Iamback]

The method doesn’t work because you can’t expand beyond NSW and Qld.

It’s a perfect Catch 22 situation - you can’t develop talent in WA or SA or PNG etc because you don’t have a club there and you have people like you arguing against the merits of any of these options because there is no talent developed there. It’s a self limiting proposal.

If you have a centralised development program other than having the clubs invest in junior development, you can directly invest in areas to grow the game.

Also, for every Penrith, you have a GC or Newcastle or Cronulla who were too broke to develop talent in any meaningful money. Why should we hamstring development in these areas which is for the betterment of the whole game just because of the commercial problems of those clubs. Again that is self defeating.

On the aspect of GC, I have outlined how they are a concern. That doesn’t mean what I have said about Sydney clubs or expanding to areas outside of traditional RL areas any less valid

Why can't those areas run sides in NSW or QLD like Melbourne and Warriors do?

Clubs have some skin in the game. They have a need to attend junior league games or head to x area in the bush.

Centralised would go cheap and just do the basics.

 

[Iamback]

Sure but doesn’t mean that the Sharks have mountains of support either.

More money in the bank
Better crowds, TV ratings and performance over 5 years

 

[Wb1234]

Yep and a new team coming in...No team should go but my point is if you use metrics. Regional teams would go 1st but RL is unique and works well in the smaller markets.

Offset by corporate and traditional support in Sydney

That’s what these fools don’t realise if we are using metrics then it’s clubs like the cowboys, titans, storm and Canberra who would be the first to get booted out.

channel nine has no interest in showing these clubs so they add little to the tv rights

 

[Perth Red]

That’s what these fools don’t realise if we are using metrics then it’s clubs like the cowboys, titans, storm and Canberra who would be the first to get booted out.

channel nine has no interest in showing these clubs so they add little to the tv rights

Fta is the biggest at threat part of the tv deal, within the next decade it will be dead in the water, I certainly wouldn’t be structuring any comp on what ch 9 want!

 

[Wb1234]

To

Funny, could have sworn it’s called NATIONAL Rugby League

did you even read his post ?

Fta is the biggest at threat part of the tv deal, within the next decade it will be dead in the water, I certainly wouldn’t be structuring any comp on what ch 9 want!

Anti siphoning

that’s the problem for the nrl is our fta broadcaster has little interest in showing half the teams in the competition

it’s left for the Sydney clubs and the broncos to carry the rest

 

[Colk]

Penrith ….currently the best rugby league club o

other than the broncos the remaining clubs add little to the tv deal tb

lmao the nswrl was bigger than the qrl in 1908. Well before poker machines. That dominance was never challenged

poker machines didn’t come around until the 1960s

even now nsw supports ten nrl clubs and Queensland will have four. And two of the Queensland clubs are small

Firstly, what does Penrith being on top of the ladder or being defending champions have to do with anything? You are conflating on field success with questions of off field stuff like support and menberships.

For example using an example from another sport, if GWS win the AFL competition and nobody watches them, is that a success for the AFL or not?

Another example, the Roosters and Manly have had amazing success over the past 20 years - the Roosters are probably comparable to the Storm- yet their memberships are half of what the Storm are and their attendances are less as well. If people like yourself argue that the Storm only have support because of their success what is the excuse for those two clubs? Why are there subjectivities placed on clubs outside of Sydney that are not applied to those within Sydney? Reeks of double standards.

Secondly, anybody who doesn’t believe that the Warriors, Cowboys and Storm haven’t added to TV dollars - well I don’t know what to say. Perhaps a slight sense of delusion.

Thirdly, who cares about the histories between Brisbane and Sydney rugby league competitions. This means nothing now that we are in the NRL - you know National Rugby League. Anyway there’s a reason why any expansion talk doesn’t include any team in NSW - because there are already enough sides from NSW.

 

[Iamback]

That’s what these fools don’t realise if we are using metrics then it’s clubs like the cowboys, titans, storm and Canberra who would be the first to get booted out.

channel nine has no interest in showing these clubs so they add little to the tv rights

It isn't just ch9

Storm are in a sport city but all those others you speak of have very limited professional sports.

If sponsors wanted to see GC and Townsville play. They would have teams in other sports