Stalled and stagnant Sydney clubs

[Colk]

More money in the bank
Better crowds, TV ratings and performance over 5 years

What’s their membership currently. 13k? Heaps of support. Again I hope they succeed and they increase their memberships to 30k or more. They have a long way to go though.

 

[Colk]

That’s what these fools don’t realise if we are using metrics then it’s clubs like the cowboys, titans, storm and Canberra who would be the first to get booted out.

channel nine has no interest in showing these clubs so they add little to the tv rights

Cowboys and Storm getting booted out based on what metrics? Metrics on who has the greatest support? Seriously do people not realise that TV money comes from a presence in the bigger markets.

Again I have mentioned how the Titans are a concern. If there wasn’t an AFL team on the GC they probably wouldn’t be in the competition but anyway there is, and they are. Let’s hope that they succeed.

 

[Colk]

It isn't just ch9

Storm are in a sport city but all those others you speak of have very limited professional sports.

If sponsors wanted to see GC and Townsville play. They would have teams in other sports

They do have teams in other sports though. Not all of them of course but they do other teams in other sports. Considering AFL have mentioned that they might put a side in North Queensland, it wouldn’t be a smart idea to kick out the Cowboys. Notwithstanding the fact that their games rate well.

 

[Perth Red]

To


did you even read his post ?

Anti siphoning

that’s the problem for the nrl is our fta broadcaster has little interest in showing half the teams in the competition

it’s left for the Sydney clubs and the broncos to carry the rest

And as their audience continues to drop as it has done last few years they will pay less and less and be irrelevant. Any streaming service can make some games available for free and no anti siphoning issue,

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Yep and a new team coming in...No team should go but my point is if you use metrics. Regional teams would go 1st but RL is unique and works well in the smaller markets.

Offset by corporate and traditional support in Sydney

Ideally we would have one team from Southern Sydney relocate to Adelaide or Perth. The team that remains would cover all of Southern Sydney and Illawarra.

South Coast Dragons
West Coast Sharks

 

[Colk]

Why can't those areas run sides in NSW or QLD like Melbourne and Warriors do?

Clubs have some skin in the game. They have a need to attend junior league games or head to x area in the bush.

Centralised would go cheap and just do the basics.

Well they would probably have to at first but isn’t the end goal to start developing players from across Australia rather than from just two states? In any case, there are plenty of other competitions here and abroad where clubs have no direct involvement and it hasn’t negatively affected the amount of talent produced in the game.

Clubs have skin in so far as they need to build supporter bases, grow attendances etc. Maybe if they weren’t so focused on running junior competitions then they can concentrate on growing their brands.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

That’s what these fools don’t realise if we are using metrics then it’s clubs like the cowboys, titans, storm and Canberra who would be the first to get booted out.

channel nine has no interest in showing these clubs so they add little to the tv rights

Cowboys and Storm are two of the most watched teams across the country. Both of them draw better ratings for Ch9 than most Sydney clubs. You've seen the data so stop lying.

 

[mongoose]

Someone should compare Sharks to Titans

	Sharks	Titans
2019​	12224	11587
2018​	12700	12807
2017​	12953	13688
2016​	14578	13806
2015​	11925	11236
2014​	12631	13194
2013​	13470	14028
2012​	13234	14405
2011​	12094	15428
2010​	10551	17877
2009​	11364	19178
2008​	12965	21618
2007​	10689	21489

oh dear.... Titans have had higher crowds all but 3 years between 2007 and 2019 LOL

 

[Colk]

	Sharks	Titans
2019​	12224	11587
2018​	12700	12807
2017​	12953	13688
2016​	14578	13806
2015​	11925	11236
2014​	12631	13194
2013​	13470	14028
2012​	13234	14405
2011​	12094	15428
2010​	10551	17877
2009​	11364	19178
2008​	12965	21618
2007​	10689	21489

oh dear.... Titans have had higher crowds all but 3 years between 2007 and 2019 LOL

Oh dear indeed. The fact that they averaged only about 700 more when they won the competition is a bit of a worry

On the Titans though, my god their crowds have gone down. Some of that is attributable to really poor on field performance but hopefully it picks up again. Does anybody what their average is this year?

 

[Iamback]

	Sharks	Titans
2019​	12224	11587
2018​	12700	12807
2017​	12953	13688
2016​	14578	13806
2015​	11925	11236
2014​	12631	13194
2013​	13470	14028
2012​	13234	14405
2011​	12094	15428
2010​	10551	17877
2009​	11364	19178
2008​	12965	21618
2007​	10689	21489

oh dear.... Titans have had higher crowds all but 3 years between 2007 and 2019 LOL

Only using 1 metric

in that time GC as a shiny new team had great support intially

42.15% win record
3 final series
2 wooden spoons

Have gone broke with $35m in debt
Ownership back to NRL and now someone else

Sharks
46.18% win rate
8 finals series
1 premiership
1 spoon
$100m in assets. Made a profit last season

So again tell me how Sydney teams are falling behind

 

[Colk]

Only using 1 metric

in that time GC as a shiny new team had great support intially

42.15% win record
3 final series
2 wooden spoons

Have gone broke with $35m in debt
Ownership back to NRL and now someone else

Sharks
46.18% win rate
8 finals series
1 premiership
1 spoon
$100m in assets. Made a profit last season

So again tell me how Sydney teams are falling behind

Firstly, if you want to make a fair comparison don’t neglect to mention that the Sharks have been a financial mess for most of their existence and have been bailed out quite a few times. They were talking about relocating them not too long ago. Manly were the same also.

They, like the Titans and all of the clubs seem to be in a good financial position now, so long may it continue.
The problem is that some forum members want to apply different standards to teams based on their location which is completely dishonest.

Secondly, this debate has been specifically about metrics of supporter bases and memberships because the game is ultimately measured by how much support it can generate. If, for example, expansion teams were getting the same crowds as those in Sydney would they be deemed a success or a failure?

 

[Wb1234]

And as their audience continues to drop as it has done last few years they will pay less and less and be irrelevant. Any streaming service can make some games available for free and no anti siphoning issue,

Bro you wonder why our fta deal struggles vs afl that’s the reason

nine has no interest in 6 out of 10 nrl teams.

and your response is let’s cut some sydney teams to further reduce our appeal for nine

if anything based on adding value for nine the central coast bears now starts sounding a lot more appealing

 

[Wb1234]

Ideally we would have one team from Southern Sydney relocate to Adelaide or Perth. The team that remains would cover all of Southern Sydney and Illawarra.

South Coast Dragons
West Coast Sharks

So you want one team to split games between 3 venues ? Lmaooo

 

[Colk]

Bro you wonder why our fta deal struggles vs afl that’s the reason

nine has no interest in 6 out of 10 nrl teams.

and your response is let’s cut some sydney teams to further reduce our appeal for nine

if anything based on adding value for nine the central coast bears now starts sounding a lot more appealing

Talk about stumbling on a point. I’ll tell you the reason why our deal struggles against the AFL. They have a thing called a national competition and teams in every metro market (yes and this may shock you even teams in traditional RL areas) It’s pretty simple free market economics.

Wow another one in favour of putting in a Central Coast side. You do realise there are essentially no corporates on the CC right? That and the fact that everybody on the CC is already following another team, so you are further cannibalising your own market. You have also been banging on about what a failure regional teams, yet you want to add another regional team? You sound a tad confused.

 

[Iamback]

Firstly, if you want to make a fair comparison don’t neglect to mention that the Sharks have been a financial mess for most of their existence and have been bailed out quite a few times. They were talking about relocating them not too long ago. Manly were the same also.

They, like the Titans and all of the clubs seem to be in a good financial position now, so long may it continue.
The problem is that some forum members want to apply different standards to teams based on their location which is completely dishonest.

Secondly, this debate has been specifically about metrics of supporter bases and memberships because the game is ultimately measured by how much support it can generate. If, for example, expansion teams were getting the same crowds as those in Sydney would they be deemed a success or a failure?

They have been true but after 4 years to be $35m in debt. Is a worry especially in RL heartland

The NRL made a profit. Clubs are making profits

 

[mongoose]

Only using 1 metric

in that time GC as a shiny new team had great support intially

42.15% win record
3 final series
2 wooden spoons

Have gone broke with $35m in debt
Ownership back to NRL and now someone else

Sharks
46.18% win rate
8 finals series
1 premiership
1 spoon
$100m in assets. Made a profit last season

So again tell me how Sydney teams are falling behind

on field success shouldn't be a factor, otherwise we should be arguing for 2 new teams in Melbourne, maybe another in Vaucluse.

 

[Wb1234]

Talk about stumbling on a point. I’ll tell you the reason why our deal struggles against the AFL. They have a thing called a national competition and teams in every metro market (yes and this may shock you even teams in traditional RL areas) It’s pretty simple free market economics.

Wow another one in favour of putting in a Central Coast side. You do realise there are essentially no corporates on the CC right? That and the fact that everybody on the CC is already following another team, so you are further cannibalising your own market. You have also been banging on about what a failure regional teams, yet you want to add another regional team? You sound a tad confused.

The afl has 3 regional teams out of 18

the nrl has 4.5 regional teams out of 16

also on top of that channel nine have no interest in the storm or warriors games

perhaps we should’ve put teams in Perth and Adelaide at the expense of say the cowboys and Canberra. Would that make us like afl then ?

 

[Wb1234]

Afl has 9 teams in Melbourne
Nrl has 8.5 team in Sydney

population of Melbourne 5 million
Sydney population 5.3 million

 

[AdelaideSharky]

Cowboys and Storm (the latter in particular) have more supporters than any of the Sydney sides, so I don’t understand your point.

You can bemoan that as much as you want from the viewpoint of a traditionalist but the only thing that counts, considering we are selling a product in a free market economy, are numbers of supporters and viewer numbers.

Only issue with that logic is where were the Cowboys fans when they were stone motherless last until Canterbury shit the bed and offloaded Johnathan Thurston in favour of Brent Sherwin leading Thurston to move to the Cows, same with Melbourne a club that has predominantly been parked in the top four for 22 of the 24 years it has been in the competition?

 

[Iamback]

Afl has 9 teams in Melbourne
Nrl has 8.5 team in Sydney

population of Melbourne 5 million
Sydney population 5.3 million

New markets are good but need tradition too.

Good mix atm. I think we end up in 20 teams and 8.5 Sydney teams is fair