Stalled and stagnant Sydney clubs

[Pippen94]

Yeah let’s all play in small dilapidated stadiums in outer suburbs that nobody other than the home supporters can get to.

It’s called playing at modern stadiums with proper facilities. You know like every other sport does.

What other sport has nine teams with the same home ground?!
Teams should have their own home turf & be in location they represent.
Wait till you find out about soccer teams in London

 

[Perth Red]

What other sport has nine teams with the same home ground?!
Teams should have their own home turf & be in location they represent.
Wait till you find out about soccer teams in London

He said two home grounds. I’d stretch it maybe three decent 35k modern stadiums. Central, west and southern. Plenty of sports have clubs sharing grounds. Soccer is one fo the few that doesn’t and that’s historic and because clubs can afford to build their own stunning stadiums.

 

[siv]

What other sport has nine teams with the same home ground?!
Teams should have their own home turf & be in location they represent.
Wait till you find out about soccer teams in London

The main reason for not playing too many teams at the same venue is wear & tear

We cant even play 3 grades anymore because if these modern playing fields. Goid drainage byt poor wear & tear

 

[Pippen94]

The main reason for not playing too many teams at the same venue is wear & tear

We cant even play 3 grades anymore because if these modern playing fields. Goid drainage byt poor wear & tear

Yeah soccer is particular about surface

 

[The Mad Hatter]

You've got it all wrong. The ARL was broke after 1997 because they exhausted their reserves on court battles. Super League was the superior competition, drawing much bigger attendances and having exclusive control of the game's best players. News Ltd could afford to run another season of Super League as they had the money to recoup their losses. ARL couldn't afford another year of losses. Packer wasn't going to give them any more money and he stabbed them in the back to sign a deal with Super League. The ARL went begging to News Ltd for a reunification and gave them everything they wanted.

 

[Pippen94]

He said two home grounds. I’d stretch it maybe three decent 35k modern stadiums. Central, west and southern. Plenty of sports have clubs sharing grounds. Soccer is one fo the few that doesn’t and that’s historic and because clubs can afford to build their own stunning stadiums.

Great input from out of towner. Too bad Penrith & brookvale getting upgrade followed by new stadia at Liverpool, loftus??
It's called home & away for a reason

 

[siv]

Yeah soccer is particular about surface

Soccer actually wants to kick RL off its venues

 

[Colk]

What other sport has nine teams with the same home ground?!
Teams should have their own home turf & be in location they represent.
Wait till you find out about soccer teams in London

I made the comparison with AFL and that’s a sport where you have 9 sides at two grounds. They also have miles better attendances than we do because unlike our game they didn’t introduce outer suburban sides. Which was the other aspect of my point.

I’m well aware of London and I have been there a few times. If you really don’t want to be disingenuous with the comparison there is a key difference between the EPL and the NRL in Sydney: pretty much every one of their stadiums is world class. Nobody is sitting on a hill for example

 

[Perth Red]

On

Great input from out of towner. Too bad Penrith & brookvale getting upgrade followed by new stadia at Liverpool, loftus??
It's called home & away for a reason

only one of those has been confirmed

 

[Pippen94]

I made the comparison with AFL and that’s a sport where you have 9 sides at two grounds. They also have miles better attendances than we do because unlike our game they didn’t introduce outer suburban sides. Which was the other aspect of my point.

I’m well aware of London and I have been there a few times. If you really don’t want to be disingenuous with the comparison there is a key difference between the EPL and the NRL in Sydney: pretty much every one of their stadiums is world class. Nobody is sitting on a hill for example

Afl still had better attendances than nrl when they had suburban grounds. Nothing yo do with all playing in same arena like groundhogs day.

On

only one of those has been confirmed

Sydney, Parra, Penrith, brooky with a new stand.. all coming together.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Cable TV killed the territories. One company was always going to go national & alas it was the biggest. WCW would never had existed if ted turner hadn't bought out the failing jcp.

Wollongong was slated for 1967 entry into comp but crl voted it down. They could see the storm coming. Sydney was always going to consume regional nsw then Queensland. Just too big - nothing to do with spite.

Other comments about Sydney competition lack insight into competition, growth & history of Sydney.

How would the NSWRL have consumed Queensland if the laws regarding gaming machines were the other way around?

In that scenario the balance of power would have been in Queensland. It's just fortunate for the NSWRL clubs that the NSW government provided them with this source of revenue in 1956. Queensland prohibited licenced venues from operating gaming machines until the 1990s.

I know all about Ted Turner's foray into wrestling. At one time in the 80s the WWF ran programming on Turner's network, which backfired on Vince to a large degree. Jim Crockett Promotions were sold to Turner in 1988. We all know what happened over here in 1988.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Really good point there about how the oldest Sydney clubs were "hemmed in" by later Sydney expansion clubs - especially the 4 that arrived post-WW2.

Good point too that the Sharks & Bulldogs are at a huge risk from being enclaves surrounded by others with little scope for growth - and that's before we get to the void of the North Shore.

The RL map of Sydney is a mess, and is in serious need of restructuring.

Bulldogs have really fallen away over the last 20 years. They had a small period or moderate success when Des Hasler took the reigns, but that didn't last long and they've become a real struggler on and off the field. Without their Leagues Club they would be f**ked. I wouldn't be surprised if their active fan base dwindles over the next 15 years.

 

[Colk]

Afl still had better attendances than nrl when they had suburban grounds. Nothing yo do with all playing in same arena like groundhogs day.



Sydney, Parra, Penrith, brooky with a new stand.. all coming together.

Have a look at their attendance growth since they moved away from their suburban grounds. It is not a coincidence.

People don’t want to travel long distances to sit on a hill; particularly when you have to pay $20-30 a ticket to enter. If you are trying to convince people to attend games give them modern amenities, enclosed roofs etc.

Anyway, going back to my original post, I said in hindsight this is something they could have done. It is what you call a hypothetical

 

[Pippen94]

How would the NSWRL have consumed Queensland if the laws regarding gaming machines were the other way around?

In that scenario the balance of power would have been in Queensland. It's just fortunate for the NSWRL clubs that the NSW government provided them with this source of revenue in 1956. Queensland prohibited licenced venues from operating gaming machines until the 1990s.

I know all about Ted Turner's foray into wrestling. At one time in the 80s the WWF ran programming on Turner's network, which backfired on Vince to a large degree. Jim Crockett Promotions were sold to Turner in 1988. We all know what happened over here in 1988.

..because one place is Sydney the other is Brisbane.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

What other sport has nine teams with the same home ground?!

Your question sums up the insanity of having nine professional rugby league clubs from the same metropolis playing in a closed model national competition. The fact no other closed model national sporting competition does this, with the exception of AwFuL, explains why we need to stop propping up nine small Sydney clubs when we have other important markets without a team.

The NRL artificially props up all nine Sydney clubs.

Let's get rid of the salary cap for ten years and introduce promotion and relegation, with no annual grant from the ARLC, to see if Sydney can support nine teams, yeah?

How many Sydney clubs will still be in the top flight by the tenth season?

If a national promotion and relegation competition has nine clubs from the same metropolis in it then they've proven themselves to be strong enough to compete with clubs from other areas.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

..because one place is Sydney the other is Brisbane.

That doesn't make sense.

NSWRL clubs acquired their wealth through gamblers having a spin on the pokies at their Leagues Clubs. These people were not necessarily fans of the clubs. They just liked to gamble.

Historically, NSWRL clubs made very little money from sponsorship deals and gate receipts. The nine NRL clubs in Sydney generate little money from their football departments. It's why they're propped up by massive Leagues Clubs that are loaded with pokies. Broncos are twice as big and rich as any Sydney club, despite having a small Leagues Club.

I have no doubt that if the timeline of gaming machine laws were reversed in Queensland and New South Wales then there's no way the NSWRL could have killed the BRL. The Broncos were able to dwarf every NSWRL club when gaming machines were illegal in Queensland. It's delusional to think NSWRL could have eleven or twelve Sydney based clubs, not funded by gaming machines in this hypothetical scenario where they're illegal in NSW but permitted in Queensland, making more money than eight BRL clubs that have a den of gaming machines in their Leagues Clubs.

 

[The Great Dane]

He said two home grounds. I’d stretch it maybe three decent 35k modern stadiums. Central, west and southern. Plenty of sports have clubs sharing grounds. Soccer is one fo the few that doesn’t and that’s historic and because clubs can afford to build their own stunning stadiums.

I'd go as far as 4 if you could pull one off in NS as well.

 

[The Great Dane]

The NRL artificially props up all nine Sydney clubs.

To be fair, they artificially prop up all the clubs except the Broncos and sometimes Souths.

A few of the others could probably be profitable/sustainable independently as well if they were forced to be, but they don't have to be because of the NRL's grant system.

 

[Pippen94]

That doesn't make sense.

NSWRL clubs acquired their wealth through gamblers having a spin on the pokies at their Leagues Clubs. These people were not necessarily fans of the clubs. They just liked to gamble.

Historically, NSWRL clubs made very little money from sponsorship deals and gate receipts. The nine NRL clubs in Sydney generate little money from their football departments. It's why they're propped up by massive Leagues Clubs that are loaded with pokies. Broncos are twice as big and rich as any Sydney club, despite having a small Leagues Club.

I have no doubt that if the timeline of gaming machine laws were reversed in Queensland and New South Wales then there's no way the NSWRL could have killed the BRL. The Broncos were able to dwarf every NSWRL club when gaming machines were illegal in Queensland. It's delusional to think NSWRL could have eleven or twelve Sydney based clubs, not funded by gaming machines in this hypothetical scenario where they're illegal in NSW but permitted in Queensland, making more money than eight BRL clubs that have a den of gaming machines in their Leagues Clubs.

Great. Now tell me why afl has 11 Victorian teams & only two each from sa & wa and none from tasmania?!

Bigger, more prominent city will always win out despite whatever mental gymnastics you tell yourself

 

[Pippen94]

I'd go as far as 4 if you could pull one off in NS as well.

All these non Sydney ppl know what's best for city.