Stay on your wing ffs!!

[Poupou Escobar]

Interesting commentary from Andrew Johns on our defensive decisions on Penrith's first try, at 4:05 in the extended highlights: https://www.nrl.com/watch/matches/telstra-premiership/2023/round-26/panthers-v-eels/

"Once the ball player comes right into the line like Nathan, the outside defenders have to be rushing outside in. Will Penisini this time, he's just hanging back. Will missed his assignment. He had to be rushing up on Stephen Crichton out the back."

Aside from the fact he referred to Luai as Crichton, Johns accurately describes for us dopes how overlaps work and the only way to have a chance to shut them down. If edge defenders are outnumbered, they won't stop the try by staying on their man, because the player with the ball will just run through untouched. The only hope is to jam in and force a pass and hope one of the attackers gets it wrong.

Also, dual premiership winner To'o came off his wing a bunch of times when Sivo scored. Maybe Brad Arthur isn't the only one with no idea how to coach defence?

 

[JokerEel]

I said last night the Will stuffed up by going in like a training run.

Will & Russ should have rushed up and completed the tackles even when they passed the ball put the player out of play.


You can see both Penrith players still on their feet able to back up.

You go back a few frames you can see Brown and Carty taking their opposite out of play.

So because they were able to stay in play Gutho had 2 - 1

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Will & Russ should have rushed up and completed the tackles even when they passed the ball put the player out of play.

Absolutely. Look at all the times To'o came in off his wing. Simonsson got the pass away (2 TAs) but there was no chance he was going to be able to support Sivo after that, because To'o put him on the ground.

The key isn't staying on your wing, it's belting merkins even if they pass the ball.

 

[JokerEel]

It was also good work by Simmonson on Sivos try he didn't hold the ball up (which would have given To'o time to slide) and passed straight way - which I noticed him practicing last week before the game..

 

[emjaycee]

Sivo has been jamming in all year and relying on the players inside him to slide and cover any outside attackers.
When either he (Sivo) has managed to shut the play down with a good tackle or the inside defenders have slid out in time to tackle the outside runner, we have stopped the try.
It's only when Sivo doesn't stop the ball AND our lazy inside defenders don't get across in time, that the opposition have scored and everyone has blamed Sivo.

This is a change this year to our defensive structure and it seems to mostly fail us when we are lazy in defense.

 

[emjaycee]

Sivo has been jamming in all year and relying on the players inside him to slide and cover any outside attackers.
When either he (Sivo) has managed to shut the play down with a good tackle or the inside defenders have slid out in time to tackle the outside runner, we have stopped the try.
It's only when Sivo doesn't stop the ball AND our lazy inside defenders don't get across in time, that the opposition have scored and everyone has blamed Sivo.

This is a change this year to our defensive structure and it seems to mostly fail us when we are lazy in defense.

And it hasn't worked as well on our right side because Russel more often than not fails to stop the play or Penisini doesn't push across quick enough to cover the outside attacker.

 

[Eelementary]

I think our biggest defensive issues are not being able to dominate the ruck - we let our opponents get quick play-the-balls, and they murder us out wide.

We need a new wrestling coach.

 

[JokerEel]

Sivo has been jamming in all year and relying on the players inside him to slide and cover any outside attackers.
When either he (Sivo) has managed to shut the play down with a good tackle or the inside defenders have slid out in time to tackle the outside runner, we have stopped the try.
It's only when Sivo doesn't stop the ball AND our lazy inside defenders don't get across in time, that the opposition have scored and everyone has blamed Sivo.

This is a change this year to our defensive structure and it seems to mostly fail us when we are lazy in defense.

You look at the Roosters 2nd try I dont think too much can be put on Sivo he came in the only thing he needs to do is also take the diver out of play hold him up for a few seconds that stops him being in support on the inside.




We had enough bodies over to stop the try one should have taken the legs and the other the ball.

 

[JokerEel]

Roosters 3rd try.

Keary had too much time here Hopgood needed to punch up and smash him IMO



Sivo here was too slow to react coming in on the diver when he had too much time to get the ball away..


Once again Sivo needed to take the diver out of play as he was able to back up in defense. we also had enough numbers to stop the try but Manu steps inside.

Manu gets away from 3 tacklers offloads to the Diver and he scores..

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I think our biggest defensive issues are not being able to dominate the ruck - we let our opponents get quick play-the-balls, and they murder us out wide.

We need a new wrestling coach.

I think the failure is prior to the collision. You see Penrith, there's no need for wrestling because they get four merkins into the tackle before the attacker gets the chance to go to ground. With us we usually get one or two in, and the attacker has landed on his guts before anyone comes to help. It's about speed and effort off the ball, to get into the tackle as quickly as possible. Literally chasing the collision. We have a couple of big plodding merkins who jog back into the line past their mates who are trying to wrestle an attacker to the ground.

 

[JokerEel]

4th Try,



Simmonson comes up Which has foced Sivo to move in



The Simo shits it rushed to his left which makes Sivo think he has to cover 2 players and Roosters score

 

[JokerEel]

Roosters 20th Try...

Penisini actually did a good job here it was Brown who sat back and missed his mark

As Penisini rushed up it caused Keary to go short

Brown slipped off the tackle and they scored.

 

[JokerEel]

I think the failure is prior to the collision. You see Penrith, there's no need for wrestling because they get four merkins into the tackle before the attacker gets the chance to go to ground. With us we usually get one or two in, and the attacker has landed on his guts before anyone comes to help. It's about speed and effort off the ball, to get into the tackle as quickly as possible. Literally chasing the collision. We have a couple of big plodding merkins who jog back into the line past their mates who are trying to wrestle an attacker to the ground.

Yep I noticed this last night you see Panfers players flopping in. We had a lot of chances to add extra players in tackles but didnt.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Roosters 20th Try...

Penisini actually did a good job here it was Brown who sat back and missed his mark
View attachment 78503
As Penisini rushed up it caused Keary to go short
View attachment 78504
Brown slipped off the tackle and they scored.
View attachment 78505

To be fair, Cartwright started the play a bit too far infield, probably because he wanted to help out covering Terrell May (#16). This meant Drown was in two minds about whether Cartwright would get to Keary in time.

As always, more effort on the inside (as in, inside Cartwright) reduces these numbering problems.

 

[Avenger]

We should try and get someone like Tom Opačić back and buy a metre eater winger (Corey Oates) would be good. People keep talking about speed but I think that is overrated.

To use Pou’s description we can’t use a ‘back up’ like Simonsson as our principal centre for 2024. When I see him in our team I get f**king constantly annoyed.

 

[JokerEel]

We should try and get someone like Tom Opačić back and buy a metre eater winger (Corey Oates) would be good. People keep talking about speed but I think that is overrated.

To use Pou’s description we can’t use a ‘back up’ like Simonsson as our principal centre for 2023. When I see him in our team I get f**king constantly annoyed.

Simonson is so hot and cold as a centre Last night he was good passed well and also tackled well he took down Martin 1 on 1 on the line. Last week he was terrible.

Sivo I just have nothing after last night.. He turned up when it didnt matter

 

[hindy111]

Interesting commentary from Andrew Johns on our defensive decisions on Penrith's first try, at 4:05 in the extended highlights: https://www.nrl.com/watch/matches/telstra-premiership/2023/round-26/panthers-v-eels/

"Once the ball player comes right into the line like Nathan, the outside defenders have to be rushing outside in. Will Penisini this time, he's just hanging back. Will missed his assignment. He had to be rushing up on Stephen Crichton out the back."

Aside from the fact he referred to Luai as Crichton, Johns accurately describes for us dopes how overlaps work and the only way to have a chance to shut them down. If edge defenders are outnumbered, they won't stop the try by staying on their man, because the player with the ball will just run through untouched. The only hope is to jam in and force a pass and hope one of the attackers gets it wrong.

Also, dual premiership winner To'o came off his wing a bunch of times when Sivo scored. Maybe Brad Arthur isn't the only one with no idea how to coach defence?

Its also up to a player to know when to rush up. If you watch Russel he seems very focussed and eyes glued to the play. I can't say the same about Sivo or Waqa who I'd say often get the timing wrong of when to and not to rush up. Are you suggesting all wingers can read the play equally? Of course we know at some point they have to rush up or someone goes in untouched and during a season it will happen many times. The question is was it avoidable and did they get the timing wrong?
This isn't a coaching problem but the players basic attention span if ask me.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

To use Pou’s description we can’t use a ‘back up’ like Simonsson as our principal centre for 2023. When I see him in our team I get f**king constantly annoyed.

I don't think he is a backup. He is a genuine first grader. He'll never play Origin but he might hit 100 career wins, and won't ever cost too much, leaving cap space for the stars.

 

[Gronk]

Good thread. :thumbs:

 

[King-Gutho94]

Just bring back Dave Kidwell.

Our D was fine under him and he was criticised like no tomorrow.