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Sunday Footy Show

big country

Juniors
Messages
1,319
Thats a furphy.

Anyform of cap will ensure that doesnt happen, it just needs to be increased a bit to improve the over-all quality.

I think that is Gus' main beef

that's another furphy - if the cap increases to say $6 or $8 mil and there is not increase in income from the game only 3 or 4 clubs would be in the comp
 
Messages
1,186
I agree, he is missing the point completely. Gallop has done okay, but i wish that he was more articulate and stroingly spoken to put Gould in his place.

That rubbish about Storm should be allowed to keep Inglis, Slater etc. cos they're home grown... Gallop was right - If this was allowed there would be a lot of clubs that wouldn't survive. Can you imagine Gus Gould's own ROOSTERS in that situation? There is no way that his roosters would be able to compete against the likes of Penrith etc. if clubs were so heavily rewarded for producing and maintaining their own juniors.
What rubbish. I can't believe that some people listed to the dribble that is coming out of Gould's mouth.

And that elderly lady - GAH, of course eveyone wants to be as sucessful as the storm. I'd love to have the kind of quality players that they have. But you know what else I'd love - I'd love to live in a mansion. I'd love to drive a VW golf, spend 3 months of the year in the bahamas and cure all poverty in the world. Unfortunately, I can't. NRL clubs can't sustain teams like the storm! There is not enough money in the game! Why is there not enough money in the game, thats another story (whether NRL are to blame for not negotiating a better tv deal, etc.). The rules are there for a reason. Bottom line is, Storm have cheated. They should be punished. And Gould should STFU!

You think clubs that can't produce any of their own juniors should be supported by those that can? Why? Perhaps in a market where we have relic clubs that don't represent rugby league areas, or put back into the game shouldn't play in the national competition? Or at least shouldn't be very successful? The only exception being a new frontier club like Melbourne who provide the benefit of growth of the code.

Think about it. You could almost draw up a map of NSW and there'd be natural fit for clubs to take care of areas and have free access to those juniors. Dragons would have the South Coast, Canberra southern NSW, Newcastle take care of Hunter / New England, Western Sydney is well covered and if it means that Easts and Cronulla fold up (or remain in the comp but aren't powerhouses) then so be it. Souths could do a good enough job of covering the South/East (provided they move back that way!)

Over time, with planning, you could see all areas covered with their own teams, Gosford, North Coast etc, with remaining areas (ie: the north west of NSW, not much population there btw) part of a common access of juniors, where clubs that use these areas must put a return into grassroots funding. Also, it's not like there wouldn't be a salary cap for purchasing outside area either - eg: St George Illawarra haven't produced a brilliant halfback in a long time (Matt Head the one and only) so clubs would still be looking around for some outside talent.

So simply, a very long term strategy like this would:
1. Reward clubs who can produce juniors
2. Provide a framework for the spread of the game.
3. Still be competitive.

Financially, big corporates would still have 16 shirts to sponsor, being in or outside of Sydney, or in the east or west of Sydney, shouldn't make a difference in getting the big sponsorship deals.

The people running the game need to plan to create frameworks that benefit the game in more than one area, instead of one dimensional concepts such as Gallop's "keeping the competition close and exciting" with the simplistic salary cap.
 
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Brutus

Referee
Messages
26,215
I agree, he is missing the point completely. Gallop has done okay, but i wish that he was more articulate and stroingly spoken to put Gould in his place.

That rubbish about Storm should be allowed to keep Inglis, Slater etc. cos they're home grown... Gallop was right - If this was allowed there would be a lot of clubs that wouldn't survive. Can you imagine Gus Gould's own ROOSTERS in that situation? There is no way that his roosters would be able to compete against the likes of Penrith etc. if clubs were so heavily rewarded for producing and maintaining their own juniors.

Gus' arguement is not about juniors. You are missing the point.

It's about club's bringing players through their system like the Roosters or any club can do. No club is disadvantaged in this regard. If a club has good recruiting staff then it doesn't matter if they have a junior base or not.

Look at a guy like Minichiello. He's not a friggin Roosters junior, but he's been in their system for ages and the club should be given dispensation for making him the player he is today.
 

nitabita

Juniors
Messages
146
You think clubs that can't produce any of their own juniors should be supported by those that can? Why? Perhaps in a market where we have relic clubs that don't represent rugby league areas, or put back into the game shouldn't play in the national competition? Or at least shouldn't be very successful? The only exception being a new frontier club like Melbourne who provide the benefit of growth of the code.

Think about it. You could almost draw up a map of NSW and there'd be natural fit for clubs to take care of areas and have free access to those juniors. Dragons would have the South Coast, Canberra southern NSW, Newcastle take care of Hunter / New England, Western Sydney is well covered and if it means that Easts and Cronulla fold up (or remain in the comp but aren't powerhouses) then so be it. Souths could do a good enough job of covering the South/East (provided they move back that way!)

Over time, with planning, you could see all areas covered with their own teams, Gosford, North Coast etc, with remaining areas (ie: the north west of NSW, not much population there btw) part of a common access of juniors, where clubs that use these areas must put a return into grassroots funding. Also, it's not like there wouldn't be a salary cap for purchasing outside area either - eg: St George Illawarra haven't produced a brilliant halfback in a long time (Matt Head the one and only) so clubs would still be looking around for some outside talent.

So simply, a very long term strategy like this would:
1. Reward clubs who can produce juniors
2. Provide a framework for the spread of the game.
3. Still be competitive.

Financially, big corporates would still have 16 shirts to sponsor, being in or outside of Sydney, or in the east or west of Sydney, shouldn't make a difference in getting the big sponsorship deals.

The people running the game need to plan to create frameworks that benefit the game in more than one area, instead of one dimensional concepts such as Gallop's "keeping the competition close and exciting" with the simplistic salary cap.

I agree there should be some way of rewarding clubs who produce their own players - What frustrated me was the way that Gould was justifying Storm's cheating because they produced their own players. That's nice that Storm produced their own players, but Gould has missed the point.
 

Noa

First Grade
Messages
9,029
that's another furphy - if the cap increases to say $6 or $8 mil and there is not increase in income from the game only 3 or 4 clubs would be in the comp

No, what you and I mention about the cap is an issue.

What Knightmare said is a furphy.
 

Noa

First Grade
Messages
9,029
Gus' arguement is not about juniors. You are missing the point.

It's about club's bringing players through their system like the Roosters or any club can do. No club is disadvantaged in this regard. If a club has good recruiting staff then it doesn't matter if they have a junior base or not.

Look at a guy like Minichiello. He's not a friggin Roosters junior, but he's been in their system for ages and the club should be given dispensation for making him the player he is today.


Bingo

How can people not realise what Gus is saying is NOT if you sign a junior you should keep them for life.

He's saying if they want to stick around for 7-8 years then clubs and the player should be rewarded for it
 

nitabita

Juniors
Messages
146
Gus' arguement is not about juniors. You are missing the point.

It's about club's bringing players through their system like the Roosters or any club can do. No club is disadvantaged in this regard. If a club has good recruiting staff then it doesn't matter if they have a junior base or not.

Look at a guy like Minichiello. He's not a friggin Roosters junior, but he's been in their system for ages and the club should be given dispensation for making him the player he is today.

I don't disagree with you. I think clubs who effectively produce their own talent (from the local area or otherwise) should be rewarded.

Under the current system, this is not the case. I can see that this is a problem, but the bottom line is that storm didn't follow the rules.

Gus was out of line and missed the point because he was banging on the fact that storm "produced their own players" - Instead of ripping into the NRL and glorifying the storm, Gus should have taken his blinkers off, slowed down, and talked about what could be done in the future. Instead, he decided to ramble on on his high horse, ignoring the current rules that are in place and the fact that the storm broke them, and didn't articulate his thoughts well at all.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
Gus' arguement is not about juniors. You are missing the point.

It's about club's bringing players through their system like the Roosters or any club can do. No club is disadvantaged in this regard. If a club has good recruiting staff then it doesn't matter if they have a junior base or not.

Look at a guy like Minichiello. He's not a friggin Roosters junior, but he's been in their system for ages and the club should be given dispensation for making him the player he is today.

Exactly. People are so caught up in bagging Gould that they are entirely missing the point.

dragondad said:
Gould says that the Storm deserves to keep all their talent that they produce?What a disgrace,look at the all the origin plays Saints produced but had to let go?

His point is that EVERYONE should be allowed to keep more players that they have produced.

His point is the salary cap SHOULD NOT PENALISE SUCCESS. It should limit a clubs ability to buy players, not retain them.
 

Ianc

Juniors
Messages
573
The point Gus missed was that the Storm (& the other 15 clubs) signed off & agreed to THIS salary cap.

The Storm (& prob others not caught yet) went on & cheated that cap.

To talk about the cap & its deficiencies at this time, takes away from the fact the Storm cheated.
 

nitabita

Juniors
Messages
146
The point Gus missed was that the Storm (& the other 15 clubs) signed off & agreed to THIS salary cap.

The Storm (& prob others not caught yet) went on & cheated that cap.

To talk about the cap & its deficiencies at this time, takes away from the fact the Storm cheated.

Bingo.
 

nqcowboy87

Bench
Messages
4,181
Bingo

How can people not realise what Gus is saying is NOT if you sign a junior you should keep them for life.

He's saying if they want to stick around for 7-8 years then clubs and the player should be rewarded for it

exactly, most of those players that gus mentioned with the exception of inglis and folau, went to norths and then got picked up by the storm, cameron smith is a brisbane junior so what, he was playing at logan brothers, and was on a broncos scholarship and storm offered him a contract, he went to play at norths and by his own admission hsi first year at norths/melbourne he struggled until markmurray got in his ear, and he started to knuckle down and look where he is today. while i dont agree wih gus entirely, there needs to be a little bit of concession for development, i nkow they cant keep everybody they develop thats just life, look at luke burt, im sure at times the knights would of wanted him on the wing same with thurston at the bulldogs, but you know maybe a little give and take
 

gronkathon

First Grade
Messages
9,266
You develop someone from Matts or SG Ball age than you deserve compensation in some form.

Picking up players from a second tier comp is not developing juniors
 

Front-Rower

First Grade
Messages
5,297
I didn't see the footy show so I can't comment on any of it.

But what I can comment on is the fact that I think you are all missing the point. This isn't about simply being over the salary cap, it's about the structures and procedures that were put in place to hide the fact they were deliberatly breaking the salary cap.

IF they had made an honest mistake and their books they showed the NRL didn't balance I highly doubt the NRL would of come down like a tonne of bricks on them. I also think that yes they would of lost their points but they may of been able to compete for points for the rest of the season.

From the outside looking in this just isn't an NRL issue but I'm sure the ATO would like to know what was going as well and if the ATO find anything that hadn't been declared this is going to more then just a football season being over.
 

mickdo

Coach
Messages
17,355
Gould was an absolutely arrogant, disrespectful tool on the Footy Show today. I was hoping Gallop would get up and smack him in the mouth, which is exactly what he would have deserved. Fortunately Gallop has more class than that. All I heard from Gould was one excuse after another for the Storm cheating, trying to make out that they were the poor victims in all this. Then he rattles off a list of players that debuted at the Storm, AS IF NO OTHER CLUB HAS SUCH PLAYERS??? I'm not watching the show again this year. They are a blight on the game IMO. Disgusting.
 

Springs

First Grade
Messages
5,682
So many people are missing the point. The point, a very good one, is that these players came to the club that is the Melbourne Storm not as representative players or millionares or whatever. The primary reason Smith, Inglis, Slater, Cronk, Johnson and co. are the players they are today is because of the brilliant development work and coaching at the Storm. They did not turn into great players because of the administration (which are the guilty ones).

The point Gould makes is that why should these players be broken up, after they were so successful playing together and playing under the coaching staff, because the competition has to be 'even'. If the whole Storm team were at say Souths 5 years ago they would not have become as great as they have become. It was the Storms development that made them, why should the players and the coach have to pay for being successful? The cap was implemented to stop the richest clubs simply buying all the top talent, not to penalise clubs for developing their own players, which it is doing now. The EPL does not have a cap, the top clubs just buy all the best players. Manchester United is not full of home-developed players like Melbourne is, they just buy all the talent. If players are developed at a club and turned into brilliant rep players, the club should be allowed to keep them. At the moment lower clubs are being rewarded for poor development systems, snatching away well developed players from the good systems when they do not deserve them.
 

Brutus

Referee
Messages
26,215
Bingo

How can people not realise what Gus is saying is NOT if you sign a junior you should keep them for life.

He's saying if they want to stick around for 7-8 years then clubs and the player should be rewarded for it

Exactly.

Even a guy like Fitzgibbon became a Roosters legend, but we all know he was signed from St George Illawarra.

He should have been rewarded once he was at the Roosters for at least 8 years and not forced overseas.

It doesn't matter how big a club's junior base is.
 

Greenbits

Juniors
Messages
434
Exactly. People are so caught up in bagging Gould that they are entirely missing the point.



His point is that EVERYONE should be allowed to keep more players that they have produced.

His point is the salary cap SHOULD NOT PENALISE SUCCESS. It should limit a clubs ability to buy players, not retain them.

Which is ironic given his association with the Roosters.

I agree by the way. Regardless the Storm cheated the current rules, and deserved to be punished. Doesn't mean the rules shouldn't be reviewed and changed.
 

Red Bear

Referee
Messages
20,882
I though Gallop handled it ok from what I saw. He certainly threw Goulds rubbish idea of have them offload players to get under the cap out. That all involves breaking of contracts, not to mention that with every other team spending at the cap how are these offloaded players supposed to get signed?

I usually have a pretty poor opinion of Gallop but he's handled this situation well. Its just unfortunate that the club that cheated the game so badly is one of our most important geographically, but you cant start making exceptions. This is also near identical to what happened to the Bullsogs, the big difference is the time of year in which the news broke. if this had happened in say August Melbourne would've been stripped of their points and no one would complain, and thats more or less what they have ensured here.

Dont blame the NRL fo ryour clubs position Storm/rugby league fans, the blame lies squarely at the feet of a few selfish f**kers who were in charge of your clubl.
 

Dr Crane

Live Update Team
Messages
19,531
gus seemingly presided over a roosters team which saw many of the same sideways glances fans gave towards the storm before the story broke. he's got zero credibility at the best of times, and given the fantasy universe he lives in it doesn't surprise me he'd be totally out of line again.

i didn't even watch because i couldn't be bothered being aggravated by such stupidity.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
Which is ironic given his association with the Roosters.

I agree by the way. Regardless the Storm cheated the current rules, and deserved to be punished. Doesn't mean the rules shouldn't be reviewed and changed.

This is where Gould is completely letting himself down. Storm cheating can not be excused.
 
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