Sydney relocations

[Feej]

 

[The Charlatan]

balmain dont even have any votes on the wests tigers board and you automatically think they would keep their mascot if "wests tigers" relocated, and that wests who actually are contributing would lose everything??? :?

Still harping on about the Magpies, they are not coming back you delusional genius.

 

[alien]

Still harping on about the Magpies, they are not coming back you delusional genius.

They're still around, you "delusional genius", even if it's only in the lower grades. It is still more than what Balmainge has! Fool!

 

[goodplayer]

Wests pirates!
Brisbane Tigers!
Wellington orcas!

Solves all problems

i like that idea , very good ;-)

 

[The Great Dane]

Haweii the China mob have moved into Queensland and want a team to link.

Huawei already sponsor the Raiders and both sides of the arrangement are quite happy, in fact I'd say they are a great sponsor, they're pretty lenient and very understanding and they always want to be actively involved with club, their boss has been down from china to watch us twice now and they're constantly coming up with cool ways for both parties to get as much as possible out of the arrangement. They're probably the best major sponsor we've had since Canberra Milk was the major sponsor.

However Huawei isn't happy with the way the NRL treats them (and to an extent the way they treat the Raiders).

I reckon that if the NRL knock back the game in Shenzhen a couple more times and refuse to stand up to Nine about the amount of FTA games we get that they'll probably drop us and look to get better value for money by sponsoring a club in a different code (they'll probably try to get a deal done with the Brumbies again). If that happens it's very unlikely that they'll be interested in ever sponsoring an NRL team again.

 

[Perth Red]

Can someone explain to me how ann NRL team moving out of a suburb means that suburb will be taken over by another code even though no other code is putting clubs in these suburbs. Why would RL fans in NS become afl or union fans when there is no Afl or super 15 team in NS?

 

[Perth Red]

Wa mining boom was always time ltd, always is, however wa economy remains one of the strongest in the country, the next boom will come along in a few years and be silly profits again for a while. Wa has been like that since 1860!

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...rs-joint-venture/story-fni3gpz1-1226855140991

 

[taipan]

Can someone explain to me how ann NRL team moving out of a suburb means that suburb will be taken over by another code even though no other code is putting clubs in these suburbs. Why would RL fans in NS become afl or union fans when there is no Afl or super 15 team in NS?

I will spell it out because it has happened..
When souths were given the flick,decent numbers of rl fans of that club either gave up on the code, chose the Tahs or Swans.During that time their fans and others gathered together in a march to have the club reinstated.There were court battles and eventually they got back in.As a result that club provides a substantial number of fans and memebrs to the code now.

North Sydney had a decent following there and despite being in a strong union area,got decent crowds.When they were tossed out,fans moved in various directions to union,Swans and other clubs .
At the same time the no of junior clubs and teams in that area diminished and AFL grew a hell of a lot stronger there.We now get fumbleball in GPS schools such as Shore.and St Ignatius.

The Shire has over 20,000 registered soccer players,the largest in Australia.The Sharks have over 3,000 juniors.Most people I know who follow the Sharks,follow the club(the same with the Tigers,Manly,Bears and not the code as a whole.The A League wants to get a Southern franchise and the Sharks would not let their ground remain unused.Go figure what would happen.

People adopt the attitude I lose my local team,the code can get knotted.
Winter time" what do I watch live now my team has gone."Ah Sydney represents me,but Roosters,don''t,Souths don't.
I can also assure you even down to joint venture set ups ,have some fans p*ssed off,and I know of a couple of instances where Illawarra fans have pulled up anchors and of an instance with the West Tigers where they went to the swans.
Yes some fans will stick and find another club,or just watch on TV.

It's all very well to sit back in sunny Perth with nothing to lose like an armchair general ,and assume clubs' fans will just accept removal or relocation.Human nature is not like that.They may if the club has no option ie they are bankrupt,financially unable to continue ,but not to put pins on the maps.
The AFL realise now they need their 9 Melbourne based teams,to lose more is just undermining their own base.

Undermine you base at your peril.
There is nothing wrong with expanding(which carries risks) without contracting in your home area which is established and known.All of the areas with clubs are growing population wise.If they were shrinking,yep understandable plans would need to be put in place.

 

[taipan]

Huawei already sponsor the Raiders and both sides of the arrangement are quite happy, in fact I'd say they are a great sponsor, they're pretty lenient and very understanding and they always want to be actively involved with club, their boss has been down from china to watch us twice now and they're constantly coming up with cool ways for both parties to get as much as possible out of the arrangement. They're probably the best major sponsor we've had since Canberra Milk was the major sponsor.

However Huawei isn't happy with the way the NRL treats them (and to an extent the way they treat the Raiders).

I reckon that if the NRL knock back the game in Shenzhen a couple more times and refuse to stand up to Nine about the amount of FTA games we get that they'll probably drop us and look to get better value for money by sponsoring a club in a different code (they'll probably try to get a deal done with the Brumbies again). If that happens it's very unlikely that they'll be interested in ever sponsoring an NRL team again.

Have to agree with that viewpoint.The Raiders get stuff all FTA,and If I were a sponsor I would be up in arms at ch9 and the NRL.

 

[oikee]

Huawei already sponsor the Raiders and both sides of the arrangement are quite happy, in fact I'd say they are a great sponsor, they're pretty lenient and very understanding and they always want to be actively involved with club, their boss has been down from china to watch us twice now and they're constantly coming up with cool ways for both parties to get as much as possible out of the arrangement. They're probably the best major sponsor we've had since Canberra Milk was the major sponsor.

However Huawei isn't happy with the way the NRL treats them (and to an extent the way they treat the Raiders).

I reckon that if the NRL knock back the game in Shenzhen a couple more times and refuse to stand up to Nine about the amount of FTA games we get that they'll probably drop us and look to get better value for money by sponsoring a club in a different code (they'll probably try to get a deal done with the Brumbies again). If that happens it's very unlikely that they'll be interested in ever sponsoring an NRL team again.

Yes i think you will find that Huawei already sponsor a AFL team. I read it somewhere.

The other area the NRL has to become cleverer at is getting sponsors from outside NSW to sponsor Sydney teams.

I mean come-on,,, if you want to grow your product into Sydney, then if your a company based in QLD or Melbourne, even Perth or adelaide, linking up with a NRL club is a great why to grow your brand.
I can give you a quick example of a firm that was started here in Toowoomba as a role model.
They now sponsor the Eels and are doing really well, and are very happy.

The Sharks really need to join forces with another state. Dont move them, dont upset fans, why cant the NRL try something new.

Play 5 games in Qld at your queensland base, and play the other games in Sydney.

The NRL really need to start introducing ground breaking ideas.
Rome might not have been built in a day, but gee whiz, Chinese cities are being built overnite.
Times are changing, the NRL is like a old tree sloth.

 

[oikee]

Wa mining boom was always time ltd, always is, however wa economy remains one of the strongest in the country, the next boom will come along in a few years and be silly profits again for a while. Wa has been like that since 1860!

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...rs-joint-venture/story-fni3gpz1-1226855140991

The NRL has got to get this suburban team is greater than state city team out of their head.
A city like Adelaide or Perth is always a better bet than a Sydney surburban team. I mean you need look no further than the fact hardly any NRL teams make a profit, even after sitting for 10 years in the top 4. (Manly)

They cant grow the game, they will never grow the code, and once they splip out of the top 8 they will struggle like the rest of them, (titans Raiders, Dragons, Tigers).

At least if your a big city team, you can take the impact and move on.
The NRL is miles away from being self funded, the Storm need a clubhouse and club built. ? when is that happening,? The NRL are so far off the pace we are in the tortoise race and have egg on our face.

I think you will find the drop of our dollar is close , happening now, so WA will struggle as Queensland want more workers. The flow is just about done for mining, it's close to over.
Now is the time for Perth to sink money into other codes and other projects.

 

[Perth Red]

I will spell it out because it has happened..
When souths were given the flick,decent numbers of rl fans of that club either gave up on the code, chose the Tahs or Swans.During that time their fans and others gathered together in a march to have the club reinstated.There were court battles and eventually they got back in.As a result that club provides a substantial number of fans and memebrs to the code now.

North Sydney had a decent following there and despite being in a strong union area,got decent crowds.When they were tossed out,fans moved in various directions to union,Swans and other clubs .
At the same time the no of junior clubs and teams in that area diminished and AFL grew a hell of a lot stronger there.We now get fumbleball in GPS schools such as Shore.and St Ignatius.

The Shire has over 20,000 registered soccer players,the largest in Australia.The Sharks have over 3,000 juniors.Most people I know who follow the Sharks,follow the club(the same with the Tigers,Manly,Bears and not the code as a whole.The A League wants to get a Southern franchise and the Sharks would not let their ground remain unused.Go figure what would happen.

People adopt the attitude I lose my local team,the code can get knotted.
Winter time" what do I watch live now my team has gone."Ah Sydney represents me,but Roosters,don''t,Souths don't.
I can also assure you even down to joint venture set ups ,have some fans p*ssed off,and I know of a couple of instances where Illawarra fans have pulled up anchors and of an instance with the West Tigers where they went to the swans.
Yes some fans will stick and find another club,or just watch on TV.

It's all very well to sit back in sunny Perth with nothing to lose like an armchair general ,and assume clubs' fans will just accept removal or relocation.Human nature is not like that.They may if the club has no option ie they are bankrupt,financially unable to continue ,but not to put pins on the maps.
The AFL realise now they need their 9 Melbourne based teams,to lose more is just undermining their own base.

Undermine you base at your peril.
There is nothing wrong with expanding(which carries risks) without contracting in your home area which is established and known.All of the areas with clubs are growing population wise.If they were shrinking,yep understandable plans would need to be put in place.

Has it? Crowds are bigger than before, TV audiences are bigger than before. Of the 10,000 bears fans how many were actually lost to the code? No one knows and the little evidence would suggest not that many.

In an ideal world the NRL would have the playing and dollar resources to just keep growing but that is t reality. So the hard decision has to be do you live with a suburban club avg'ing 12,000 and struggling to get sponsors in a over populated market or do you invest, take risks and aim for new customers in a place like Perth that has consistently drawn 20k crowds for neutral teams and has sponsors lined up? Not an easy decision and someone loses out which ever way it goes.

 

[RoosTah]

Has it? Crowds are bigger than before, TV audiences are bigger than before. Of the 10,000 bears fans how many were actually lost to the code? No one knows and the little evidence would suggest not that many.

In an ideal world the NRL would have the playing and dollar resources to just keep growing but that is t reality. So the hard decision has to be do you live with a suburban club avg'ing 12,000 and struggling to get sponsors in a over populated market or do you invest, take risks and aim for new customers in a place like Perth that has consistently drawn 20k crowds for neutral teams and has sponsors lined up? Not an easy decision and someone loses out which ever way it goes.

Yeah, I'd like to see some evidence to back up the claim that people went to another code... I don't remember hearing that too many South Melbourne fans started following the NSWRL back in the '80s after their move.

 

[reanimate]

The Bears damage could also be healed/fixed relatively easily if the NRL would just do something to fix the whole ridiculous situation up. They just have to make a call on the Bears bid- given that the NRL is looking at Queensland and WA, and the language of Smith and co lately indicates that they think the amount of teams in Sydney could be unsustainable going forward, the CC Bears are next-to-chance. Move the bid interstate or shut it down, then put an NRL team to work on the North Shore- Manly (makes most sense IMO due to geography and NS/NB kids going to school together etc), Easts, Tigers, who the f**k ever, just do it.

It could be so easily done, it just needs someone to finally take initiative. Union's in its weakest state ever, now is the perfect time to repair the damage on the North Shore.

 

[taipan]

Has it? Crowds are bigger than before, TV audiences are bigger than before. Of the 10,000 bears fans how many were actually lost to the code? No one knows and the little evidence would suggest not that many.

In an ideal world the NRL would have the playing and dollar resources to just keep growing but that is t reality. So the hard decision has to be do you live with a suburban club avg'ing 12,000 and struggling to get sponsors in a over populated market or do you invest, take risks and aim for new customers in a place like Perth that has consistently drawn 20k crowds for neutral teams and has sponsors lined up? Not an easy decision and someone loses out which ever way it goes.

OK Lets look at crowds separately Wests & tigers ,Dragons & Illawarra in the past.All played at their local set up,no splitting grounds.Lets look at the Bears ,whjat crowds did they have prior to the flick.

A % of those crowds did not go over to the joint venture and a decent percentage of the Bear's crowds when they were flicked were lost full stop.

If Souths had been still out of the NRL,ask yourself where would our crowd totals be now.After all Souths is a Sydney club .And I doubt if crowds would have been bigger than before if they remained out.
Neither you or I know what hard decisions the ARLC will make at this stage.

And I repeat monontonously I am for expansion to 18 teams with Perth included.Mate there are no guarantees for any expansion side,crowds,long term funding especially in non heartland areas.
Hell the GC in heartland territory average nearly 20,000 in the 1st year and look at them now.

The Commisson has to be close to 100% certain of what they do will be for the good of the game,and not turn out to be a disaster.Remember they are also funding Melbourne with additional funds for the next few years.

You keep rambling on about a suburban club.For a start the Shire is approaching 230,000 plus people and continuing to grow.An area fairly affluent still part of a strong rl tradition.They get 12,500 average coming last,with ASADA,Carney still.

No club is guaranteed a place,its all on merit.Its up to all clubs to show their worth,not some arm chair general facing the Indian Ocean.

You should know yourself the damage done to rl in the west,when the Reds were flicked,and that's in non heartland territory.

 

[taipan]

Yeah, I'd like to see some evidence to back up the claim that people went to another code... I don't remember hearing that too many South Melbourne fans started following the NSWRL back in the '80s after their move.

Please advise the number of A League,S15 and NRL teams in Melbourne in the 80s when South Melbourne moved to fill the void?.Waiting.............
Please also advise what would happen if Manly were moved to Central Qld with their local fans?
Or the Roosters with no juniors to Perth?

I base my evidence on experience at work dealing with with a couple of Bears and Illawarra supporters and a Tigers fan who is known to my family.Unfortunately I am unable to provide a reference point in the Daily Telecrap or Snoring Herald,as it would be considered unnewsworthy.
Certainly Souths fans when flicked did not come rushing over to other clubs.
Further my attitude would be ,I would watch games on TV support Intnl rl,but my tribalism would be blunted.So no codes would get my support via bum on seat.And based on comments by Sharks supporters over the years I am not on my Pat Malone.

 

[Perth Red]

I agree ideally we would have a 12 year plan to get the NRL up to 20 teams but the message from the NRL has been quite different. No expansion due to poorly run at risk current clubs. Going to be really interesting to see what they decide over next 6 months,

Yes there is no guarantee a Perth or any other expansion team us going to get 18-20k avg, but then there is no guarantee about anything! Like any investment the greater the risk the greater the return. The investment in melbourne has paid massive dividends in value to the NRL. On the flip side many if the struggling clubs in the crowded Sydney market have had 40+ years to get themselves sorted. Re souths, let's be honest they got very very lucky and struck oil. Russell Crowe wasn't a fan where do you think a piggins managed south Sydney would be today? What do we do sit around another 40 years hoping the other clubs strike oil?

 

[Perth Red]

Re mergers
separately st's and Illawarra avg'd a combined 18-19k
Merged around 16.5k

Wests and tigers a combined 15.5k
Merged around 17.5k (ignoring disaster of last two years debacle)

Now those mergers freed up two spots so let's say the last two expansion clubs took those spots

Storm avg around 14k
Titans avg around 14k

So with those Sydney mergers the NRL increased its avg crowds by 27.5k fans!

Hypothetically we relocate a Sydney club to Perth and see crowds go up from 12k to 16k and this frees up a space for a Brisbane 2 avg 20k. The NRL gains a crowd boost of 24k through that decision.

 

[The Great Dane]

Yes i think you will find that Huawei already sponsor a AFL team. I read it somewhere.

They sponsor an A-League team, the Wellington Phoenix, but no AFL teams yet.

They wanted to do some cross promotions by playing a pair of double headers (one in each home city) of Phoenix vs ? and Warriors vs Raiders, but for obvious reasons neither the Raiders or the Phoenix were prepared to do that and I doubt that the NRL or A-League would be to excited about it either.

 

[The Great Dane]

As an old Bears fan myself, who knew/knows quite a few other old Bears fans, I would say that of the roughly 100 other old Bears that I know, only about 5 of them abandoned RL and picked up new codes that they didn't already follow after the Bears died (2 of which picked the Brumbies after their 2004 victory, 1 who follows the Tahs and another two who became massive EPL fans) and another roughly 10-15 that stopped following RL completely and picked up another team that they already followed as their main sporting interest.

So out of the roughly 100 other Bears fans that I knew in some way, only roughly 15-20% abandoned RL completely, of what's left there are a handful who still follow the Bears in the NSWcup and another handful who picked up other NRL teams (usually their second favorite team). But I'd say that the vast majority of them just became casual fans who don't follow any specific team but still follow the NRL to some extent.

So in my experience the stories of hoards of Bears fans picking up Swans and Waratahs jerseys is vastly over stated to say the least, in fact if I remember correctly the Bears were the first ones to speak of these hoards when they first tried to get back into the NRL.