Tactics??

[hardbaby]

Only a brave man questions Wayne Bennett but I just don't think those tactics are good enough to win a comp. I know we towelled Parra in the forwards last week so I guess the temptation was to go that way again. But in terms of winning a grand final that just won't work.

Busting up through the middle all day and relying on a great kicking game is all well and good...when it works. Last week the Dragons forwards were 9/10 and the kicking game was 9.5. But unless the cards fall for you it is a huge risk to play in such a conservative fashion.

In the old days you used to wear a pack down and rip them in the second half but it is very hard to do with unlimited interchange. Sure you need to gain forward ascendancy but you also need to sow a seed of doubt - there was no doubt. You also need to create second phase play - there were no offloads (again).

We were unlucky today. With a start like that you would often be up by 6 or 12 points. Parra won the game with a lucky bounce back from a bomb, an intercept, a brilliant field goal (what a great kick) and some Hayne magic. But that's my point. Against the better teams (look at Melbourne) they are going to score points. To win you need to score more points than them. We had no points in us today and it is a massive concern.

As a footnote, none of our players were bad today. If you look at the stats we should hold our heads high. But every player played within themselves. It was all percentage football. There was no adventure. Utterly predicatable - again.

I thought it was quite boring and we deserved to lose. Not beaten by a better side. Beaten by a team who played a better style of football.

 

[Inferno]

The eels defence was outstanding today, I don't think any team would have put many on them today.

I thought it was a great absorbing encounter to be honest, I don't know how you could have been bored.

 

[dubopov]

Only a brave man questions Wayne Bennett but I just don't think those tactics are good enough to win a comp. I know we towelled Parra in the forwards last week so I guess the temptation was to go that way again. But in terms of winning a grand final that just won't work.

Busting up through the middle all day and relying on a great kicking game is all well and good...when it works. Last week the Dragons forwards were 9/10 and the kicking game was 9.5. But unless the cards fall for you it is a huge risk to play in such a conservative fashion.

In the old days you used to wear a pack down and rip them in the second half but it is very hard to do with unlimited interchange. Sure you need to gain forward ascendancy but you also need to sow a seed of doubt - there was no doubt. You also need to create second phase play - there were no offloads (again).

We were unlucky today. With a start like that you would often be up by 6 or 12 points. Parra won the game with a lucky bounce back from a bomb, an intercept, a brilliant field goal (what a great kick) and some Hayne magic. But that's my point. Against the better teams (look at Melbourne) they are going to score points. To win you need to score more points than them. We had no points in us today and it is a massive concern.

As a footnote, None of our players were bad today. If you look at the stats we should hold our heads high. But every player played within themselves. It was all percentage football. There was no adventure. Utterly predicatable - again.

I thought it was quite boring and we deserved to lose. Not beaten by a better side. Beaten by a team who played a better style of football.

Sure mate .. eg. Hornby was woeful .. Soward and Morris f**ked up .. others were non-factors

 

[mameimo]

Very boring.

 

[18to87]

Nice post OP.

I trust Bennett and his game plan but the killer for me was when the game was on the line with 7 mins left and Soward is still kicking for field position rather than trying something, anything to tie the game up.

 

[Hollywood Dragon]

If we could have scored points early in the game it could and probably would have been different and we'd be be having the week off, but we seem to have trouble chasing a match.

Have made it tough for ourselves now, not sure we have the game or attack to win these big games, we are probably a side more suited to a week to week competition rather than cut throat finals matches

Broncos and Storm have experienced big match players, which we lack and they are two of the form sides, it's a big ask now!

Unfortunately, above all we seem to have a propensity to fall over come finals which is what hurts most of all, i thought with Bennett at the helm we may have overcome it, but sadly it seems it's firmly intrenched in the personality of our football club/team! I fear the ghosts of 99 will haunt us forever! :x

I been fearing this becoming a reality all season come this time of year....can't see us digging our way out of th current situation.

 

[BigNormProvan]

Not enough completed sets hurt us, as we were playing a grinding gameplan that relies heavily on getting to the kick on tackle 5 or 6.

The '12 point swing' when Grothe intercepted was a real killer. Dean Young falling off a tackle badly that lead directly to a try. The Burt try came from a bit of fortune and a lack of confidence/willingness by a Dragon to secure the ball.

I didn't see any concernable injuries. Cooper was 'on ice' late in the game, his foot is a needle job each game and i'm sure he'll suit up against Brizzy.

We can get the job done next week, I've still very confident about that. What day and time is that clash set down for??


Big Norm

 

[Ulysseus]

I agree with you hardbaby, the team plays a very simple game plan, BUT, it HAS to be played at nothing below an 8 out of 10.
When you turn up and only give 7 you get beat, anything les than a 6 and you get flogged.

Its all well and good to wear the opposition down through repeat sets etc where possible, but points have to be scored, and if they aren't going to score that many the defence has to be top notch.

Maybe they would have won had Grothe not got that intercept try, but he got it and they didn't and because of what is now proving to be a very restrictive game plan and one that is indeed becoming very easy to read (the ball wide to Creagh..................... again) it is too late to adapt.

It is polar opposite of 2005 but in some ways similar, back then it was "well get it to Gasnier and see what he does".
That has been replaced by brute strength and consistency, but when you turf your ability to razzle dazzle you have got to be ON in your core areas.

Today, again, they were not.

 

[saintzrule]

The eels defence was outstanding today, I don't think any team would have put many on them today.

I thought it was a great absorbing encounter to be honest, I don't know how you could have been bored.

You unbalanced result of incest! you and your team were offside all day, you flavour of the day mfs

 

[Red Bear]

Warren Ryan was pretty scathing, seemed to think you guys were far too conservative when you had the dominant field position early.

That was a pretty bad pass from Soward that was intercepted by grothe, because grothe was right there early - soward had time to change the plan when grothe walked up but threw the pass anyway.

 

[boro]

i cant see the advantage of having a winger on the bench, that last 15 minutes we lacked props and go forward, backrowers doing the job while weyman and poore on the bench i reckon our support play needs a good look at. In saying this i would never question waynes ability, hes the man!!

 

[TheRev]

I think people (led by commentators) are carrying on too much with the 'conservative' thing, its the approach that works for our side, its what we went away from during the 3-game loss, and if we had of coughed up the ball more in that first 20 minutes, people would be on here claiming that Saints need to go back to 'simple football'.

The conservative approach worked too, unfortunately we just couldn't capitilise on 20 minutes of completely dominating football (on their line). Unfortunately Creagh and perhaps Morris are our only dangerous weapons close to the line, and it means its hard for us to rack up good points unless we have them running backwards.

I don't actually think we have the offensive team to win these upcoming games 'safely', but were a 50/50 chance, it just depends how the ball bounces, and it will probably come down to not missing tackles on the Brisbane backline, and also how well our back 3 deal with Lockyers pinpoint kicks.

 

[butter81]

This is my first post, so take it easy on me!

Is it only me? or does anyone else think that fien kicks the ball too many times? We used to build our plays on the back of soward's kicking game, and he would get it right because he was kicking the ball every 2 mins (or so).

I think fien should pull his head in and let soward and hornby run the team. If he has too much ego to take a step back then leave young in there for 80 mins. Obviously, if he sees an opportunity then take it (like his 40/20 today) but if its the last and not much is happening, let our halves decide what to do.

Also, cooper today showed why he should NOT be playing. When he broke the line and squeezed a pass to morris (that ended up being knocked on) he should've pinned the ears back and ran. He had already got ourtside his man. I think it's a crucial injury and he should be dropped. I would play morris at centre and florence on the wing, and bring in another forward to the bench (i think we need more starch on our bench) or just bring stanley in at centre and drop flo altogether (as much as i love him).

 

[TheMightyRedV]

^ welcome to the forum butter...

personally i think fien injects some great spark in attack...yeah not everything went right last night, but Soward and Hornby weren't on their game 100% either.

As for Cooper, he's been a bull machine and a rock pulling off some great tackles. I think the little things didn't go our way in the game yesterday that did go our way last week, and parra's desperation got them over..well done they thoroughly deserved it.

Let's fire up for suncorp - we need our red v crew up there to stand up!

 

[Slippery Morris]

Cooper was great and he did score a try which was incorrectly disallowed as the ball went back off Creagh's shoulder. Coops owns Hodges and is key to the Brissy game.

 

[oldmancraigy]

The '12 point swing' when Grothe intercepted was a real killer. Dean Young falling off a tackle badly that lead directly to a try. The Burt try came from a bit of fortune and a lack of confidence/willingness by a Dragon to secure the ball.

You reckon it was a 12 point swing?

Looked more like a 6 point swing to me.

If the ball gets to Morris, he is WELL covered from 30m out.

The Burt try came because the Dragons didn't contest a bomb 5m out from their own tryline - that's not fortune, that's simply poor play. Parra contested it 5m out from the opposition tryline, and thoroughly deserved to score. Not fortune.

Problem with the Dragons was definitely in the tactics.

They were too conservative in the opening 20 when cheap penalties and Parramatta mistakes gave them ample opportunity to post a try. They probably got frustrated by not scoring (I thought Burt knocked the bomb on, and not Dell - should've been a try there - and how on earth did the human turnstile Joel Reddy make 2-3 try savers?).
But the tactics needed to be changed at the half - PLUS a serious error by Bennet was selecting only 2 forwards on the bench on a 30 degree day. Nightingale should've rested in favour of Saffy - the big Dragons pack looked tired and was easily dominated by the Eels in the second half.

The sad thing is that 13 points was a fair reflection - the Eels were a LOT better on the day, and if the Dragons want to deny it, then they're kidding themselves.

 

[Godz Illa]

If the ball gets to Morris, he is WELL covered from 30m out.

Morris has faced more coverage than that in recent times and still scored.

 

[Willow]

He was closer than 30m, try somewhere around 10m. Take away the intercept and Morris scores. Definite 12-point turnaround.

 

[saintzrule]

You reckon it was a 12 point swing?

Looked more like a 6 point swing to me.

If the ball gets to Morris, he is WELL covered from 30m out.

The Burt try came because the Dragons didn't contest a bomb 5m out from their own tryline - that's not fortune, that's simply poor play. Parra contested it 5m out from the opposition tryline, and thoroughly deserved to score. Not fortune.

Problem with the Dragons was definitely in the tactics.

They were too conservative in the opening 20 when cheap penalties and Parramatta mistakes gave them ample opportunity to post a try. They probably got frustrated by not scoring (I thought Burt knocked the bomb on, and not Dell - should've been a try there - and how on earth did the human turnstile Joel Reddy make 2-3 try savers?).
But the tactics needed to be changed at the half - PLUS a serious error by Bennet was selecting only 2 forwards on the bench on a 30 degree day. Nightingale should've rested in favour of Saffy - the big Dragons pack looked tired and was easily dominated by the Eels in the second half.

The sad thing is that 13 points was a fair reflection - the Eels were a LOT better on the day, and if the Dragons want to deny it, then they're kidding themselves.

very selective points, considering Hayne let a bomb bounce and got the luck, two disallowed tries will kill ANY team in a tight finals game, and Gro the made afool of himself in the Morris try. It was your day, but dont get carried away. Your team makes too many mistakes to win this comp

 

[oldmancraigy]

Morris has faced more coverage than that in recent times and still scored.

Yes he has - the guy is a fantastic finisher. Should've played SoO for NSW this year (Wolfman??) - surely both Morris boys will be in the sky blue next season.

But I think they had him covered - wouldn't have been the first time in the match an attacking raid had been covered down that side. You'll note they got him earlier in the game and later in the game.

He was closer than 30m, try somewhere around 10m. Take away the intercept and Morris scores. Definite 12-point turnaround.

Completely disagree.

Go and watch it again - you're right in that Morris is much closer than 30m (more like 17m out!)
But if he catches the ball, Reddy will be almost right in front of him with Robson and Ben Smith sliding over if he steps.

Even if the ball got to him it IS entirely possible that he could beat all 3 players, but it's not a guaranteed try - oh, and with Sowards miss from that location already, certainly not a guaranteed 6 points.

The thing is that Grothe was standing right there - so it was impossible for Soward to make the pass anyway - the play had been defended already, the only option was short for Cooper (onto Grothe's shoulder) or a 'harbour bridge' type pass to Morris (cover gets there so easily it isn't funny).

Never a chance for a try to the Dragons - the defence had snuffed it out. Only 1 option possible, intercept try - so no 12 point turnaround...


I have a picture of it - but don't know how to post it - sorry.


Anyway - I don't want to have an argument about an incident - hopefully the Dragons make the Grand Final so they can face Parramatta again. I think the Dragons would win the next game.

Congratulations - you had a great season to secure your first ever minor premiership - and perhaps the maiden premiership will still be yours!