Tasmanian Rugby League

[TheRam]

Interesting thoughts. I don't think doomsday is that close, even if it is to happen. For mine what is holding the game together at the moment is state of origin, the grand final and the odd premiership round with a highly promoted game or games. Outside of those, league gets caught up with other sports in what is a very crowded sporting calender here in Australia.

League will regress. There is no leadership and therefore no direction. It won't die anytime soon of course, but it will go backwards or at least in the short term(10yrs) stay where it is, but AFL and Soccer will continue to grow crowds and revenue. The true stars of league that have the attributes to play other sports will increasingly start to jump ship. As Folau said today, there are so many options out there now.

Sure one could say league is an option too, but other then SOO and maybe a GF, what is the real draw card for league anymore? The flat crowds(besides the Broncos)? Hardly.

If the money is good, then the decision is increasingly becoming easier all the time. Jump ship, and see the world while treating your body a lot better without the onslaught that league guarantees. Prolong your career ta-boot and maybe leave your body in better shape post career.

I say all this because I have followed our game for over 40 years now and it has never been run properly, other then that glorious short period when Arko & Cannon were in charge, and now it is having to compete in a totally professional world of competitors, but has no idea how to do so.

It's out of its league so to speak. I hope to no end that I am totally wrong, but the ARLC/NRL is so predictably woefully run, that I have seldom if ever been wrong on guessing outcomes on the decisions that the head admin laboriously make.

No I think we are on the decline. A great barometer is game day crowd growth, there is none. Sure club memberships have grown over the past 5 years or so, but that is because(and about the only good thing to have happened in years) the admin both NRL and clubs have woken up to the realization that this is probably the most vital aspect of growing the game, only about 50 years late though of course.

But in real terms they haven't grown jack shit, because they have really only gotten the existing pool of game attendees to fork-out up front as the crowds have really gone nowhere over the last 20 years or so. There have been no NEW significant fans attracted to the game, numbers wise, that I can see.

Dave Smith himself says that their research shows around 3 million regular fans follow the game and during the SOO period that swells to roughly double and his job is to turn that other 3 million into regular fans also. Well, I ask anyone, how the hell is he going to do that by doing NOTHING?

By not making any significant decision in forever and mark my words, when he and his mates do, depending on what they are, it will be something that could have and should have been done years earlier. Better late then never right? But mostly they will stumble, fumble and bumble their way through any significant changes as they always have.

Refereeing is a perfect example of uselessness from the controlling body. Tony Archer, from what I have been told is despised by most of his peers. Under his watch(and the previous blokes too) the standard and morale has dropped alarmingly and some of the appointments for games have been laughable and ridiculous to say the least.

The wrestle has all but killed the game as a spectacle and contrary to popular opinion, would be very simple to clean up if we had a strong and competent referees body that could lay down the law to all clubs, coaches and players, and MEAN IT! A decree that from this point on any hand in the ruck from the defending team on the ball or player once held has been called and the players are getting to their feet, will be penalized. Also once called held, defending players must cease to engage in holding onto the attacking player, otherwise penalty. End of story.

If this was ENFORCED, not for only 2 weeks, like at the start of this last season, but forever, then within the month, the game would totally be transformed back to the way it was before all this nonsense, that was introduced by people like Craig Bellamy.

But something so simple will not happen because the league is rotten at the top and they don't have the quality or strength of character that something like that would need to stay the course and see the job is done.

 

[DC_fan]

The true stars of league that have the attributes to play other sports will increasingly start to jump ship. As Folau said today, there are so many options out there now.

I have been saying for a while now that its not just the A-League, AFL and Super 15 that the NRL is up against. It is every other sporting competition played anywhere in the world.

These other sports give us the sporting fans the option to support them and athletes here in Australia to play them.

Forty years ago who here knew what the NFL, MLB and NBA was? Today we have Australians playing in each of those sports and in the years to come many more will.

Today for many people like myself it is just as easy to follow an overseas sport as it is an Australian. I can watch every Souths game on TV, but I can also watch every Dallas Cowboys game. I can read everything that is written about Souths in papers and on the net, but I can also do the same with the Cowboys. I know as much about the Cowboys as I do Souths. With the internet and cable TV its easy.

The sooner the people running our game that the sporting world is getting smaller and smaller and adjusts to that, the better the game will be.

The problem for Rugby League is not the next ten years its beyond that. But now is the time for the NRL to put things in to place to ensure the games survival well in to the future.

 

[taipan]

I don't share the pessimism.And I have been following the game for at least 40 years.
Yes I agree with getting rid of the wrestle.It sh*ts me to tears.Scheduling is another problem.

You can only do the above with a decent sum of money behind you.The NRL is gathering that up $40m last year.'
The code was behind the 8 ball,due to pathetic TV deals done by Gallop prior.The code actually lost money in the last year of Gallop.
Already they are prepared to put sums of money into new stadiums,such as Parra and Nth Qld,which they couldn't do before.
At least the code has a lobbying section,there to put pressure on Govt.
At least the code wont have a F&L Tv clause to worry about,the next time.

Smith'(and he has his faults like everyone) recognises the importance of International rl,hence his push for help in the pacific Islands.The affiliated states, they appear to have dropped the ball,but who knows what's in the pipeline.

The code is not rushing In and making promises like Gallop was prone to do re expansion.I believe it will happen.

People forget AFL crowds were down in Melbourne this year,and if the Adelaide Oval had not been built ,the crowds would have been down overall.Lions crowds were down, down prices are down.

I remember the panic when Rogers,Sailor and Tuqiri went to union and the WC.The death of the NRL we were told after the RWC 2003.Where is union in this country now.Union is having difficulty selling out the Wellington 7s (an Olympic sport ) next year.

A League crowds rely on Wanderers & Victory.Most of the others are hardly making a quid and crowds are ordinary.Wanderers have landed on their feet good on them.They have stifled any chance the Gnats and union have of getting a foot in the West.

Let's wait and see what decisions are made by the admin over the next 6-7 months.
I have heard the same ole sky is falling in stuff for yonks.Even during Arko's era.

 

[TheRam]

I don't share the pessimism.And I have been following the game for at least 40 years.
Yes I agree with getting rid of the wrestle.It sh*ts me to tears.Scheduling is another problem.

You can only do the above with a decent sum of money behind you.The NRL is gathering that up $40m last year.'
The code was behind the 8 ball,due to pathetic TV deals done by Gallop prior.The code actually lost money in the last year of Gallop.
Already they are prepared to put sums of money into new stadiums,such as Parra and Nth Qld,which they couldn't do before.
At least the code has a lobbying section,there to put pressure on Govt.
At least the code wont have a F&L Tv clause to worry about,the next time.

Smith'(and he has his faults like everyone) recognises the importance of International rl,hence his push for help in the pacific Islands.The affiliated states, they appear to have dropped the ball,but who knows what's in the pipeline.

The code is not rushing In and making promises like Gallop was prone to do re expansion.I believe it will happen.

People forget AFL crowds were down in Melbourne this year,and if the Adelaide Oval had not been built ,the crowds would have been down overall.Lions crowds were down, down prices are down.

I remember the panic when Rogers,Sailor and Tuqiri went to union and the WC.The death of the NRL we were told after the RWC 2003.Where is union in this country now.Union is having difficulty selling out the Wellington 7s (an Olympic sport ) next year.

A League crowds rely on Wanderers & Victory.Most of the others are hardly making a quid and crowds are ordinary.Wanderers have landed on their feet good on them.They have stifled any chance the Gnats and union have of getting a foot in the West.

Let's wait and see what decisions are made by the admin over the next 6-7 months.
I have heard the same ole sky is falling in stuff for yonks.Even during Arko's era.

I won't say you don't make some valid points, because you do. But my point is that yes the potential for RL is a huge up, but the problem is the people in charge. If they don't do anything then what's the point. It won't make it.

They just don't seem to truly have the best interests of the game as their main agenda. The agenda seems to be don't do anything, thus you don't rock the boat or f**kup and feather your own nest as much as possible.

This tactic is huge in the corporate world. Try to outsource everything, then if something should go wrong you can point the finger at everyone else and never get the blame.

To actually do something and lets not forget, League needs a lot of hard decision to be made, is to stick your neck out and be daring.

These guys are not that at all. I mean look at them Dave Smith, as soon as Politis made some noise earlier this year in response to Smith's club board overhaul proposal, Smith and co practically did a total back flip. As for Todd Greenburg, enough said, total nest featherer, with no real substance or vision, absolute hoax and no club trusts him.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

There are still people on here who have a hard on for Grant and Smith and the commission in general.

A year ago they made excuses for the lack of progress citing a lack of time in power. They also sprayed their keyboards over things like the strategic plan as if it was a magical manifesto destined to revolutionise he game.

Now it's increasingly clear the commission and the individuals involved are largely one big dud. They are the same narrow minded reactionary incompetents we've always had. Even with a billion dollars the game is not in any better shape than it was before because any minor improvements have been nullified by stupid arrogant decisions and the same general lack of action on real issues affecting the games growth.

The reality is the administration does not care about growing the sport and especially not outside Western Sydney. The money in the game goes almost entirely to the elite clubs and therefore to the very elite players and their managers. They are the ones to benefit from the TV deal. No one else has really. And he best players are still leaving.

Tassie is a hard luck story but the bigger issue is the overall direction or lack of in he sport in this country and in general. This commission has failed to change his and has even brought new problems.

 

[elbusto]

Latest news from one of my mates is that the VRL is now asking Clubs, who are in deep trouble, why they did not ask for help earlier.

We told then the problem months ago but they would not listen.

My original thread about this started in May and we advised management of the affiliated States of the issues even before that about what needed to be done down here.

I have no idea who is master minding this cacophony of rubbish (actually I think I do) but how they draw their fortnightly pay in good conscience is beyond me.

 

[insert.pause]

Having the VRL responsible for tassie is ridiculous and part of the problem, where do they think tassie would rank in the VRL priorities. Does the VRL get additional funding for managing tassie RL by chance?

 

[elbusto]

Having the VRL responsible for tassie is ridiculous and part of the problem, where do they think tassie would rank in the VRL priorities. Does the VRL get additional funding for managing tassie RL by chance?

I have no idea but given their commitment to us I would say no. A mate of mine was speaking to them just the other night and they basically conceded the comp is gone but thought that was okay as RL in some form would continue. That is called Touch Football I believe.

But the most important point is this - the comp did not need to be in this state in the first place.

The problem is that the people who should care do not. We have been left to wither on the vine and die.

 

[elbusto]

And, by the way, my understanding of the politics of the Affiliated States at the moment is that the VRLs poop smells of roses given a recent growth spurt.

Who would have thought after 20 years of the Storm?

Seriously if the game is not growing there we should all give it away.

 

[taipan]

I won't say you don't make some valid points, because you do. But my point is that yes the potential for RL is a huge up, but the problem is the people in charge. If they don't do anything then what's the point. It won't make it.

They just don't seem to truly have the best interests of the game as their main agenda. The agenda seems to be don't do anything, thus you don't rock the boat or f**kup and feather your own nest as much as possible.

This tactic is huge in the corporate world. Try to outsource everything, then if something should go wrong you can point the finger at everyone else and never get the blame.

To actually do something and lets not forget, League needs a lot of hard decision to be made, is to stick your neck out and be daring.

These guys are not that at all. I mean look at them Dave Smith, as soon as Politis made some noise earlier this year in response to Smith's club board overhaul proposal, Smith and co practically did a total back flip. As for Todd Greenburg, enough said, total nest featherer, with no real substance or vision, absolute hoax and no club trusts him.

I agree with some of your points and have no hard on Smith
or Grant for that matter.And yes there have been omissions and Tassie is a classic example ,
and stuff ups on their part.That has happened under every rl admin I know of.The sharks my team were hit $600,000 by Smith.
I just want my game to grow ,and couldn't care if Luigi the Unbelievable ran the show.

As to outsourcing is not the code getting its own media set up under Telstra's guidance? Don't they have a lobby unit not in
place before?
And if we had an integrity unit in place under Gallop,perhaps the ASADA crap may have been diminished.
Getting rid of that F&L clause has to be a plus.

You also forget Arko was also mainly all about Manly.That is human nature.
People bitched about Arko big time,as well as Gallop and who could forget that gimp Moffett.

I rang him(Moffet) on 2UE years ago,asking him why rugby league wasn't being pushed into GPS and assoc schools.His response " ït's too hard".

And you are telling me clubs like the Tigers/Sharks/Newcastle and even Titans don't need their board to be run professionally by professional people.That was Politis gripe about his club at least having these types on board.Hell the Eels board at times has been a laughing stock.Not letting the former head of Macquarie bank not getting a gig.

I repeat any major decision as to expansion has to be made by mid 2015,why the panic now? PR seems to be getting his t*ts in a knot.That's why they got that former AFL commissioner on board.He pushed them on the expansion issues.

If the code is sitting on its a*se then it appears to be getting off it in Fiji.

http://fijisun.com.fj/2014/11/07/nrl-to-set-up-base-here/

Neither of us know what is in the pipeline re decision making,even to the extent of what Greenburg is involved in.
I will put it this way if nothing happens by mid June 2015,then the board needs kicking out as does Greenberg .

 

[insert.pause]

Greenberg is head of football, expansion is not really his domain.

 

[insert.pause]

I have no idea but given their commitment to us I would say no. A mate of mine was speaking to them just the other night and they basically conceded the comp is gone but thought that was okay as RL in some form would continue. That is called Touch Football I believe.

But the most important point is this - the comp did not need to be in this state in the first place.

The problem is that the people who should care do not. We have been left to wither on the vine and die.

And, by the way, my understanding of the politics of the Affiliated States at the moment is that the VRLs poop smells of roses given a recent growth spurt.

Who would have thought after 20 years of the Storm?

Seriously if the game is not growing there we should all give it away.

I dunno what to tell you, Tasmania has that effect on people. Touch football was always going to take up the slack in areas where the game only wants to be seen to have a presence and I think I said as much a while ago at the start of one of your threads. It's a lot easier to stick a NRL logo on a touch competition then it is to maintain any meaningful development of a rugby league competition. It's an insult to those such as yourself who have worked tirelessly to keep it a float for as long as you have waiting for the day the NRL would have the resources to take over only to find out they really don't see value in preserving it.

The VRL have been a limp body for a long time and I had hoped the ARLC would take it more seriously, yet to be seen.

Having the NSWRL and QRL as voting members under the ARLC model was never going to be ideal for the development of the game in the other states.

 

[elbusto]

I dunno what to tell you, Tasmania has that effect on people. Touch football was always going to take up the slack in areas where the game only wants to be seen to have a presence and I think I said as much a while ago at the start of one of your threads. It's a lot easier to stick a NRL logo on a touch competition then it is to maintain any meaningful development of a rugby league competition. It's an insult to those such as yourself who have worked tirelessly to keep it a float for as long as you have waiting for the day the NRL would have the resources to take over only to find out they really don't see value in preserving it.

The VRL have been a limp body for a long time and I had hoped the ARLC would take it more seriously, yet to be seen.

Having the NSWRL and QRL as voting members under the ARLC model was never going to be ideal for the development of the game in the other states.

What really annoys me mate is the way inept people get into positions of influence and dumb achievement down to their level of incompetency.

Rugby League deserves better than this.

And yes we busted our asses down here. And yes we feel thoroughly aggrieved by what is currently happening.

 

[taipan]

Greenberg is head of football, expansion is not really his domain.

Never suggested nior intended he was.Expansion/media deals and the competition structure is up to the board/Smith.

I also look at some of the crap that has transpired over the last two years,that needed admin involvement.
ASADA/Sharks admin/Titans nearly going down the tube/the fat guy owning Newcastle and leaving it a shambles.the Tiger's infighting and board restructure/the Broncos dubious salary cap work/clubs wanting advance money to pay players/the Eel's board shenanigans.
It's a bleeding circus.
If clubs had been run professionally it(the code) would be further advanced than where we are today.

 

[TheRam]

I agree with some of your points and have no hard on Smith
or Grant for that matter.And yes there have been omissions and Tassie is a classic example ,
and stuff ups on their part.That has happened under every rl admin I know of.The sharks my team were hit $600,000 by Smith.
I just want my game to grow ,and couldn't care if Luigi the Unbelievable ran the show.

As to outsourcing is not the code getting its own media set up under Telstra's guidance? Don't they have a lobby unit not in
place before?
And if we had an integrity unit in place under Gallop,perhaps the ASADA crap may have been diminished.
Getting rid of that F&L clause has to be a plus.

You also forget Arko was also mainly all about Manly.That is human nature.
People bitched about Arko big time,as well as Gallop and who could forget that gimp Moffett.

I rang him(Moffet) on 2UE years ago,asking him why rugby league wasn't being pushed into GPS and assoc schools.His response " ït's too hard".

And you are telling me clubs like the Tigers/Sharks/Newcastle and even Titans don't need their board to be run professionally by professional people.That was Politis gripe about his club at least having these types on board.Hell the Eels board at times has been a laughing stock.Not letting the former head of Macquarie bank not getting a gig.

I repeat any major decision as to expansion has to be made by mid 2015,why the panic now? PR seems to be getting his t*ts in a knot.That's why they got that former AFL commissioner on board.He pushed them on the expansion issues.

If the code is sitting on its a*se then it appears to be getting off it in Fiji.

http://fijisun.com.fj/2014/11/07/nrl-to-set-up-base-here/

Neither of us know what is in the pipeline re decision making,even to the extent of what Greenburg is involved in.
I will put it this way if nothing happens by mid June 2015,then the board needs kicking out as does Greenberg .

Mate Luigi The Unbelievable would run it better.

Also I wasn't referring to the RL outsourcing anything, I was just giving an example and being generic.

As for Arko, yeah sure he was a Manly man, but at least he and Cannon knew what they were doing and kept advancing the game forward and in front of all our competitors. They where also thought to be the best sporting administrators in the country at the time and had articles being written about them as such. When was the last time League can boast that?

Just an example of what I perceive as failure currently being played out behind the scenes.

We have that English billionaire Marwan Koukash, as keen as mustard to buy into any RL club that will allow him. Yet no one knows what is really going on behind the scenes, other then the occasional news report that he is looking into Tigers, Knights, Titans and now the latest one, the Broncos.

Well I will think it another epic fail if two things don't happen.

1. He should be told his only option is to buy into the Titans. End of story. Why you may ask? Well the titans are in the most precarious and difficult situation and one of the, strategically necessary club in the NRL. But also probably the hardest franchise to sell. Blind Freddy can onsell all the others if that were the road they wished to follow. But here is a man with deep pockets that just wants in and we are doing what??? I don't know, but if they don't use this opportunity to sell the problem child that is the Titans, then I give up.

And

2. Part of the NRL's rules of owning a NRL franchise license, should be that no owner can own another franchise license in any other major competition in the world. Need I go into why and the absolute rorting and conflict of interest that could and would transpire if this was not in place.

We will see what ends up happening though, but something tells me the people running the show will not make either of these two things happen.

Also in case you're wondering , what if Koukash doesn't want the Titans? Well I say bullocks! If we have the right people guiding the process, then it would happen. Failure and incompetence make excuses.


As for the Pacific Island development, it is a good start, but what the hell are they doing in country NSW/QLD and all the other states. Jack all really as what this thread is all about.

But sure you wait till June next year to make your mind up, but I'm afraid I have already made up mine and I just see much the same as always continuing, very little and then the occasional knee jerk reaction to a festering problem. As for expansion, sure it may happen, ultimately will happen eventually, but the things that plague the NRL, are much deeper then just expansion.

 

[taipan]

Arko & Quayle were good adminstrators.They had $20m in the Bank when SL exploded.Winfield sponsorship helped in that direction.
Arko has admitted that perhaps pushing for 4 teams in expasnion in 1995,was too much at once.
As former players they did have a feel for the game,no argument from me on that one.

Having said that ,they had no A League /fully pro union/or AFL Sydney team given a leg up by SL to compete with,either in NSW or Qld.

The rl clubs generally had a continuous flow of money from their Licensed clubs to assist them,that is not the case now.

They had a press with at least 2 afternoon papers and 2 morning ones ,that gave the code good coverage ,with little coverage of off field incidents.That helps.
Clubs in the bush complained about lack of funds and clubs folded even then.

The bush situation is still lack of employment and smaller towns losing people to bigger centres.The bush of the 80s early 90s is not the same today.

Gallop also received a gong for the best sports admin on one occasion,Says it all.

The current admin from what I understand has to deal with clubs and divert attention such as :-Tigers/Sharks/Titans/Newcastle even the Eels with management and financial issues.There are also three clubs who went cap in hand to the admin to pay their players.ASADA only just cleared the decks last month.The Broncos salary cap issue involved investigation.The Centre of Excellence at the Titans needed full investigation.Infrastructure fund chasing for the Eels and Nth Queensland stadiums.There has been a lot of crap hovering around in the last couple of years.

Most if not all should be cleared up by end 2014.That is why I deem mid 2015 to make a realistic assessment.That is why Í am not the pessimist,things in rugby league historically happen slowly.
I have witnessed it through many admins in this game.

As I have NFI what monies have been or will be future allocated to regional areas,with the exception of the neglect of Tasmania,I will not try to pretend one way or another what is being done.
But that does not mean nothing is in the pipeline.

I actually agree with your view on ownership and blokes like the Pommy billionaire who is passionate should be given an opportunity to pursue a club like the Titans.

If the so called rumour is true ,that expansion will be tabled at the end of the final of the 4 nations,then things are moving .

 

[East Coast Tiger]

And when the next asada or salary cap issue etc hits they'll get another reprieve till when, 2017?

Apparently despite all the staff and cash the NRL can't deal with all the shit the game inevitably produces and grow the sport at the same time. If that's the case there will be no growth anytime in the future. Of course if they spent more time on development and less time f**kng with the rules and brain farting ideas like drafts they might get something done.

 

[taipan]

And when the next asada or salary cap issue etc hits they'll get another reprieve till when, 2017?

Apparently despite all the staff and cash the NRL can't deal with all the shit the game inevitably produces and grow the sport at the same time. If that's the case there will be no growth anytime in the future. Of course if they spent more time on development and less time f**kng with the rules and brain farting ideas like drafts they might get something done.

Did I suggest ASADA was the only issue? If it was then I'd agree with you.

It is public knowledge the admin has been dealing with the shit.The Tigers got a new board,Broncos " cleared" of the salary cap issue,Sharks now free to get on with life,Titans moving away from the C of E and will get a new headquarters,the three clubs got their advance monies to pay their players,Newcastle is just about sorted out after fat boy's involvement,money will be spent on new stadiums when they start in Parramatta and Townsville,actually getting someone to lobby the Fed Govt to get grants,setting up development academies in PNG and Fiji.

This is apart from the regular matinee of offfield incidents by dopey players.

Rule changes happened in the past unlimited/4 tackle /6 tackle.The code needs to rid itself of the wrestle.The biff and shoulder charge were never in the rule books.

Have this admin made mistakes plenty,and they aren't the first nor the last .

 

[East Coast Tiger]

So they can't grow the game while shit is happening.

Therefore they can't grow the game.

They have f**ked with rules that didn't need touching because they are reactionary and out of touch. Meanwhile other issues that do need sorting are left to fester.

 

[insert.pause]

And when the next asada or salary cap issue etc hits they'll get another reprieve till when, 2017?

Apparently despite all the staff and cash the NRL can't deal with all the shit the game inevitably produces and grow the sport at the same time. If that's the case there will be no growth anytime in the future. Of course if they spent more time on development and less time f**kng with the rules and brain farting ideas like drafts they might get something done.

So you think the NRL can do more than one thing at a time and yet believe rule changes are coming at the expense of development? You want them to do something bold and yet ridicule them at the same time for floating the idea of a draft. Just because these are the things that get the media attention doesn't mean everything is is ground to a halt in the meantime.

Just because you don't read about it doesn't mean things aren't getting done, you have said yourself how much of a mess the game has always been administered, so perhaps it will take more than two years to revolutionize the way it's run?