Team v Bulldogs

[Blair]

It's not whinging mate. We're not haters...We all love this side, not saying this about you at all but there's this stupid notion amongst fans on social media in particular that if you say something critical that you're a hater and you don't want the best for the side (actually that's an attitude on SKY's coverage too). We do. It's just frustrating and we like to discuss it, we feel like there needs to be change to enjoy our side again. Shit it's been a long time!...

'Haters', it's such an inflexible term, the way of thinking that 'you're either with us or against us', there's no in between. I noticed people like Willie Mason used it a lot. Sonny Bill was another.

PW, just on the halves and Cappy. Maybe Lolohea's selection at six isn't such a 'hail Mary' option? What's got me thinking it isn't is when I heard he'd been training there. That sounds more like a plan.

 

[Big Marn]

'Haters', it's such an inflexible term, the way of thinking that 'you're either with us or against us', there's no in between. I noticed people like Willie Mason used it a lot. Sonny Bill was another.

PW, just on the halves and Cappy. Maybe Lolohea's selection at six isn't such a 'hail Mary' option? What's got me thinking it isn't is when I heard he'd been training there. That sounds more like a plan.

Plan B most likely.
What sort of coin do you think Plodson is on? Did he come over expecting to play a full season of first grade or was he told he might get a few games but the plan was for Tui to usurp him and he would then be twiddling his thumbs in reserve grade waiting for an injury or suspension to happen to the 6 and 7s.
Probably not the latter.

 

[Benek]

I thought I remember hearing when Robson signed that he was told TL was in front of him for the starting job, and he would have to earn it off him. So maybe he only got the start because TL wasn't yet fit to play?

(Now TL looks like he won't play there anyway, but that's another matter)

I'm totally open to this experiment with Tui in the halves. Don't care what Robson's ego thinks – he had plenty of games to show us his worth and he aint worth much.

 

[Blair]

I thought I remember hearing when Robson signed that he was told TL was in front of him for the starting job, and he would have to earn it off him. So maybe he only got the start because TL wasn't yet fit to play?

(Now TL looks like he won't play there anyway, but that's another matter)...

I'm surprised at TL being considered a halves option again. It was a crucial failure in 2014 when he, surprisingly, replaced Townsend at six in our must-win, final game of the season at Penrith.

Robson aint gone. Like Wright he'll be back at some stage. When he does let's hope he does OK. Right now he can mentor a few younger guys, can't he? He's a first grade veteran at least. That's got to count for something.

 

[Blair]

We can say the Bulldogs hardly got out of first gear (until they had to) but last year, in the depths of our crisis, we really should have beaten them in Sydney. We played really well, with ticker and, of course, without Johnson. Was Lolohea still in the halves by that stage?

The spineless collapses came against other sides, such as Wests and St George-Illawarra.

 

[Rich102]

Schick Hydro Preview: Bulldogs v Warriors
Westpac Stadium, Wellington
Saturday, 7.30PM NZT

After starting the season with just two victories from six games Warriors coach Andrew McFadden has rung the changes ahead of a Round 7 'away' meeting with the Bulldogs in Wellington.

A 34-18 loss to the Sea Eagles last week seemed to force McFadden's hand, with the major selection talking point in this match-up being the move of Tuimoala Lolohea from the wing to standoff, with Jeff Robson dropping back to reserve grade.

The Warriors bring in David Fusitu'a on the wing and welcome back Bodene Thompson from injury in the place of Albert Vete. Simon Mannering shifts back to lock with Sam Lisone starting at prop and Jacob Lillyman reverting to the bench, while off-season recruit Ligi Sao is listed as 18th man.

Canterbury-Bankstown will travel to Westpac Stadium off the back of a grinding 18-12 win over the Storm on Monday night, when their defence came to the party time and time again to secure a victory that lifted them to fifth on the NRL Telstra Premiership ladder.

Coach Des Hasler has named an unchanged line-up, but has added Lloyd Perrett to a five-man bench for the trip across the Tasman.


Watch out Bulldogs: The Warriors sit among the bottom four teams on the ladder, but their attack is up with the very best in 2016. In overall points the Warriors trail only the Cowboys at the top, averaging 23.3 per game, while also sitting second-equal for the most tries scored. Along with the Broncos the Kiwi outfit also lead the competition in line breaks made with 28.

Andrew McFadden made a clear statement to his players this week; perform or you are gone. The dropping of Jeff Robson so early in the season was surprising and is sure to have everyone in the squad on high alert. The Doggies should expect a much-improved attitude from their opposition come Saturday night.

Watch out Warriors: The Bulldogs have protected their line well so far this year, and have leaked more than 20 points only once in six games. They average just 14.6 points conceded per game and McFadden's men will have to be at their very best to find a way through.

In six attempts the Warriors have never won an 'away' match in New Zealand against the Bulldogs. When being hosted by Canterbury-Bankstown in both Wellington and Hamilton the best result the Warriors have managed is a 24-24 draw back in 2001.

Key match-up: Moses Mbye v Shaun Johnson. Johnson returns to the No.7 jersey for the first time this season and looks set to have an increased role, given the inexperienced Lolohea will partner him in the halves this week. The Kiwi international has scored four tries and set a further four up so far this year, and averages 48 run metres per match. At just 22 years of age Mbye has been one of the best halves in the competition so far, leading the Dogs around the park well and contributing plenty in attack with four line breaks, four tries and five try assists in six games.

The history: Played 33; Bulldogs 19, Warriors 12, Drawn 2. The Doggies are on a hot streak against the Warriors, having won their last five matches against them dating back to 2012. A win in Wellington would equal Canterbury-Bankstown's longest streak against the Warriors, while in 22 games on Kiwi soil they have won 15 times.

What are the odds: The Bulldogs opened as $2.45 outsiders and quickly became the best-backed team of the round with Sportsbet. With money running six to one in favour of Canterbury-Bankstown, they could well start favourites by the time we get to kick off. Latest odds at Sportsbet.com.au

Match officials: Referee: Henry Perenara. Assistant Referee: David Munro. Touch Judges: Shane Rehm, Jeff Younis. Review Officials: Steve Chiddy. Senior RO: Luke Patten

Televised: Fox Sports – live coverage from 5.00pm AEDT

The way we see it: The Bulldogs are travelling along neatly under the radar in fashion which might even cause coach Hasler to muster a grin. Although they have lost twice by 14-point margins, Canterbury-Bankstown have also shown they can win the tough ones. The Warriors struggle to stay in the grind and this week come up against opponents who seem to thrive on it. The Doggies will know if they can complete well the game will likely be there for the taking in the final 20 minutes, when the Warriors tend to fall away in matches. Bulldogs by 14.

http://www.nrl.com/bulldogs-v-warriors-schick-preview/tabid/10874/newsid/94785/default.aspx

 

[Rich102]

Hurrell is playing NSW Cup so I guess Sao ie on the bench in Wellington.

 

[jaseg]

We can say the Bulldogs hardly got out of first gear (until they had to) but last year, in the depths of our crisis, we really should have beaten them in Sydney. We played really well, with ticker and, of course, without Johnson. Was Lolohea still in the halves by that stage?

The spineless collapses came against other sides, such as Wests and St George-Illawarra.

Lolohea was at fullback, where he has played his best NRL footy - he had a great game.

Did I say he had been up against SKD and Fergusson? NO! Read properly it clearly states IF!

I do watch their game 3 times over as some people have to work and you clearly don't as you seem to think Lolohea took contested bombs in that game lol.

Well then perhaps you'd better brush up on your writing/comprehension skills - you put SKD & Ferguson in the conversation as if that were a genuine possibility. If Lolohea was that bad it the air it shouldn't have been necessary - Daniel Tupou is a proven good attacking player in the air, but he didn't get anything out of that in this game, did he? Made it pretty easy to laugh at with your "watch games 3 times" schtick.

As for contested takes; I'd point you to:
2nd minute
24th minute
Plus the last kick

Granted, Ayshford does a good job blocking (wow, never thought I'd say that of a Warriors player).. but the depth for the kick is there, the Roosters players are in the area and Tui takes each one cleanly.

He's so good in the air that of all the attacking bombs he's been given, how many has he scored of?

Taking attacking and defensive bombs are actually different (related, but different) skills, so that's a bit of misdirection.

Regardless, Tui has been given a significant amount of attacking bombs in 1 game - a game I have already addressed.. the frustration with that was more to do with Manu/Kahu matchup vs Tui/Oates than just Tui in general.

------

All this is a bit silly anyway... Tui has proven himself a very good NRL player in just 1 position - fullback. Since that position is off the table, I'd like to see him develop in 1 position now.

Even IF he was terrible in the air (lol), that's a lot easier to learn for a guy who isn't small than the ins and outs of first grade halves play - and he's shown almost nothing of the latter when given the chance. That chance was not long ago at all (this was my original point) - what has changed?

Given the apparent likelihood of RTS going to the ABs after his contract plus Hingano looking very good on a consistent basis, I'd like Lolohea to develop as a winger with a view to taking over the (somewhat related) fullback role (which he has already shown value in) if RTS is hurt or when he leaves the club.

 

[JJ]

Granted, Ayshford does a good job blocking (wow, never thought I'd say that of a Warriors player).. .

Always enjoy reading your posts...

That stood out for me - Ayshford's not doing much wrong, been a good addition

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Always enjoy reading your posts...

That stood out for me - Ayshford's not doing much wrong, been a good addition

So do I, jaseg is basically what I expect but come out horribly underwhelmed from our SKY commentators. So it's nice to get it somewhere.

Ayshford has been great. One defensive error v the Broncos and otherwise spot on.

I've got a good feeling tonight, that I never get before Warriors games. No idea why.

 

[ozbash]

Yep. ditto Jase, quality stuff.

Hope you've had your sedatives P Dub...

 

[JJ]

Interesting that Hasler is starting Klemmer and Browne...

 

[WithTheDawn]

First time this year I just feel dispondtently negative about the game. We really just haven't been showing enough this year to feel any confidence about this game. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm determined not to get angry and yell at the TV like I normally do when we lose >_>.

 

[JJ]

Did McFadden really just say "hope for the best" FFS

 

[WithTheDawn]

He sounds like a Warriors fan, just sit back and hope to god we actually show up and click into gear.

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

Lolohea was at fullback, where he has played his best NRL footy - he had a great game.




Well then perhaps you'd better brush up on your writing/comprehension skills - you put SKD & Ferguson in the conversation as if that were a genuine possibility. If Lolohea was that bad it the air it shouldn't have been necessary - Daniel Tupou is a proven good attacking player in the air, but he didn't get anything out of that in this game, did he? Made it pretty easy to laugh at with your "watch games 3 times" schtick.

As for contested takes; I'd point you to:
2nd minute
24th minute
Plus the last kick

Granted, Ayshford does a good job blocking (wow, never thought I'd say that of a Warriors player).. but the depth for the kick is there, the Roosters players are in the area and Tui takes each one cleanly.



Taking attacking and defensive bombs are actually different (related, but different) skills, so that's a bit of misdirection.

Regardless, Tui has been given a significant amount of attacking bombs in 1 game - a game I have already addressed.. the frustration with that was more to do with Manu/Kahu matchup vs Tui/Oates than just Tui in general.

------

All this is a bit silly anyway... Tui has proven himself a very good NRL player in just 1 position - fullback. Since that position is off the table, I'd like to see him develop in 1 position now.

Even IF he was terrible in the air (lol), that's a lot easier to learn for a guy who isn't small than the ins and outs of first grade halves play - and he's shown almost nothing of the latter when given the chance. That chance was not long ago at all (this was my original point) - what has changed?

Given the apparent likelihood of RTS going to the ABs after his contract plus Hingano looking very good on a consistent basis, I'd like Lolohea to develop as a winger with a view to taking over the (somewhat related) fullback role (which he has already shown value in) if RTS is hurt or when he leaves the club.

Mate you don't know shit about League.

You don't even answer my question about Tui scoring off bombs.

You fail to understand examples.

Did you watch Tui against the Bulldogs when he was in the halves? Like you said he's better at fullback or wing. So did he have a better game at fullback or in the halves where TUI likes to play?

You probably won't answer the question anyway.

This is stupid because we both like Tui. You see him as an outside back but I've always been confident he'll come right as a half he just needs a good team and experience and you only saw a glimpse of what I was talking about against the Bulldogs.

Fusitua showcased great all round skills as wing.

Still another half to go in this game. Let's gone Warrior!

 

[jaseg]

Mate you don't know shit about League.

You don't even answer my question about Tui scoring off bombs.

Oohh spicy.

I did make a response to your comments RE Tui & high kicks. If you can’t spot the (two paragraphs) about that… well, no further comment required. You were making an argument based on a logical fallacy. Shall I spell out exactly how that works?

Speaking of not responding to points... you didn't acknowledge you were wrong RE the high kicks - you know, when I listed the minutes of the three kicks Tui took?

Did you watch Tui against the Bulldogs when he was in the halves? Like you said he's better at fullback or wing. So did he have a better game at fullback or in the halves where TUI likes to play?

I assume you were talking about the first section of this game RE the bulldogs comments, since his last game against the Dogs (in which he played very well) was at fullback.

Unfortunately (for your argument, but brilliantly for our team) Tui came up with several great plays… from fullback. Again. I guess you missed that little switcheroo - don't worry though, you'll probably pick it up on the next view. Or perhaps the third.

After RTS went off, TL came on and Tui moved to the back. Tui then went from looking promising but not actually doing anything of note (tbh mostly just not getting in the way of Johnson getting the ball and taking it to the line while our forwards got over the advantage line) to extremely good (for the last 63 minutes of the game). Hands up who is surprised?

Tui might ‘come right’ as a half - but he isn’t the best NRL-level half prospect we have (certainly not when you consider who the other half is). That’s my issue. If we didn’t have Hingano pushing consistently from NSW cup right now it would be less of an issue. If we’re developing a half, he should be it. My view is simple; let Tui learn the ropes at the top level in a position he is likely to add value in addition to, rather than instead of, Hingano.

Annnnyway… I do like me some Fusitua. The guy just has it. Not sure why Cappy puts Wright (who’s ok, but hardly at the same level) in the team ahead of him… KPI corporate buzzword alert!


edit; Oh, and cheers JJ, PW & ozb.

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

Oohh spicy.

I did make a response to your comments RE Tui & high kicks. If you can’t spot the (two paragraphs) about that… well, no further comment required. You were making an argument based on a logical fallacy. Shall I spell out exactly how that works?

Speaking of not responding to points... you didn't acknowledge you were wrong RE the high kicks - you know, when I listed the minutes of the three kicks Tui took?



I assume you were talking about the first section of this game RE the bulldogs comments, since his last game against the Dogs (in which he played very well) was at fullback.

Unfortunately (for your argument, but brilliantly for our team) Tui came up with several great plays… from fullback. Again. I guess you missed that little switcheroo - don't worry though, you'll probably pick it up on the next view. Or perhaps the third.

After RTS went off, TL came on and Tui moved to the back. Tui then went from looking promising but not actually doing anything of note (tbh mostly just not getting in the way of Johnson getting the ball and taking it to the line while our forwards got over the advantage line) to extremely good (for the last 63 minutes of the game). Hands up who is surprised?

Tui might ‘come right’ as a half - but he isn’t the best NRL-level half prospect we have (certainly not when you consider who the other half is). That’s my issue. If we didn’t have Hingano pushing consistently from NSW cup right now it would be less of an issue. If we’re developing a half, he should be it. My view is simple; let Tui learn the ropes at the top level in a position he is likely to add value in addition to, rather than instead of, Hingano.

Annnnyway… I do like me some Fusitua. The guy just has it. Not sure why Cappy puts Wright (who’s ok, but hardly at the same level) in the team ahead of him… KPI corporate buzzword alert!


edit; Oh, and cheers JJ, PW & ozb.

Boy you don't know shit. I showed you up lol. Tui was way better at 6 then at 1. When he went to 1 his wasn't as effective. Remember our original argument is you saying Tui is a better outside back and should be developed as that, I was arguing that he is more effective in the halves and yesterday showed that I was correct so just accept it. That's our argument settled, he's better as a half and not as an outside back where he would be taking up specialist wingers time.

Tui scored a try from deep hitting the hole like a fullback? No he scored it from the ruck/dummy half like A HALF. Read and listen to all the reviews this week and in this forum, the praise is about his small display in the halves NOT AS OUTSIDE BACK as you are telling us he's best at.

You and you're Tui is good under the high ball so good that he hasn't scored of any bombs SJ gave him (Wright got given one bomb by SJ and guess what? try time last night) and your moaning of Hingano which is unlikely but you can't seem to wake up.

You don't know shit son. Absolute joke lol

 

[vvvrulz]

Boy you don't know shit. I showed you up lol. Tui was way better at 6 then at 1. When he went to 1 his wasn't as effective. Remember our original argument is you saying Tui is a better outside back and should be developed as that, I was arguing that he is more effective in the halves and yesterday showed that I was correct so just accept it. That's our argument settled, he's better as a half and not as an outside back where he would be taking up specialist wingers time.l

Wow what an idiot, I hope you aren't taking yourself seriously.

 

[jaseg]

So by your logic, Jono Wright is really good in the air? Despite the fact that we've seen him drop really simple uncontested catches? Or did you just start watching League this year? My grandmother could have scored from that kick, it was perfect (granny is fairly athletic for her age though).

Was using Hingano as example of a better long term way to use Tui.

"Tui was way better at 6 then at 1" - except when he was at 1 he scored, out of DH (halves play 1st & 2nd receiver buddy, not DH - a fullback is just as likely to jump into DH), and came into the backline 3 out from the ruck (like a modern fullback does) and created the overlap for the 2nd Ayshford try.

You talk about me not knowing League when it is quite evident that descriptor perfectly suits you.