The 8th Immortal

[clutch]

It's a joke that the highest individual honour bestowed on an ex-player in this sport is owned by a magazine publication.

Such an honour should be owned and awarded by the governing body.

 

[Ant]

It's such a hard decision to compare players between eras, but if the decision is based purely. On football ability then for mine Joey johns was the correct decision. He was a better footy player than meninga, sterling, langer, fittler, Daley, lazo, Lockyer, kenny. I cannot give an opinion on coote or McCarthy or irvine.
Johns was as highly skilled as any player I have seen, great kicker and passer and an inovater. While he lacked a littl pace, he still made regular breaks and one of the things that sets him apart was his power. Alfie and sterlo great players, but neither possessed the physical strength of johns to dump front rowers on their backsides.
Plus add a great goal kicker.

So on football ability for mine johns is the best player of the last 30 years. Well wally would give him a run. Before that others can judge, but given There are already 6 immortals from pre 1980, would suggest that a more modern player should be added.

Mal great player, such a force outwide and perhaps the start of the huge outside back, and good for such a long time. Langer, sterlo, Kenny, fittler, Daley all great in their own right. Lockyer will surely become an immortAl in time. Lazo well lacks the playmaking side, but just a juggernaut who made every side he played in better.

But Joey is above all of them as a footballer.

I think most footy players would have some off field antics that may have been made much more public if they lived in the johns era. Certainly Johnny raper has plenty of stories.

In addition Joey off field controversies are not endless, he was caught once with a tablet and then admitted to using recreational drugs mainly in the off season, nothing to do with performance. Let's not forget there was no real drug testing pre 1990s. But in this contest it was only on field ability.

 

[Son of Minto]

For those that whinge "Too soon for Joey" should look at the facts.

The other seven Immortals have these gaps between retirement and induction.

Clive Churchill - retired 1958 - inducted 1981 - 23 year gap

Bob Fulton - 1079 - 1981 - 2 year gap

Reg Gasnier - 1967 - 1981 - 14 year gap

John Raper - 1969 - 1981 - 12 year gap

Graeme Langlands - 1976 - 1999 - 23 year gap

Wally Lewis - 1992 - 1999 - 7 year gap

Arthur Beetson - 1980 - 2003 - 23 year gap

Andrew Johns - 2007 - 2012 - 5 year gap

So whose whinging about Bob Fulton!!

Another reason the Immortals is a joke. No set time frames in terms of when they pick a new one and how long they have been retired. When they need to sell more magazines, thats when a new Immortal gets picked.

 

[adamkungl]

QLD attitude is, as usual, f**king embarrassing.

Love it how everyone north of the border is suddenly very strict on drugs and racism :lol: Dead set if you get rid of every footballer who did something a bit dodgy there'd be about 4 blokes left.

 

[Big Pete]

So, do you think the Seagulls side of '93 - coached by Lewis - was better than the Parra side of '11, even though they only won one game all year (against my side, and coincidentially it was Joey's debut IIRC) but lost several close matches?

Missed this.

Don't know what your question has to do with anything but no I don't think that at all. I just said the 92 side was similar in how close they were in a lot of games, a lot of that having to do with Lewis.

 

[Willow]

Snubbing Provan is worse than Meninga and I would say Dally Messenger not being included makes it the biggest joke irrespective of the post war rule we probably would not be discussing Johns as the 8th immortal if it were not for Dally Messenger.

Also, why isn't Jack Gibson an immortal? Handy player, revolutionary coach, pimpin fur coat.

I'm sure Norm Provan would be the first to congratulate Andrew Johns if the opportunity presented itself.

No one saw Dally Messenger play. It was decided by the judges in 1981 (Frank Hyde was one of the judges) that they could only vote on players that they had seen play. So that's the criteria.

Re Gibson: I understand The Immortals is decided on player's ability on the field, not what they did off the field (including coaching). A big factor in Johns' favour.

Norm Provan deserves it by a country mile. His presence on the field and record as a player speaks for itself. He has nothing to prove and has more accolades and trophies than any Immortal.

But Andrew Johns is also deserving, by virtue of his abilty on the field. He changed the game, and is the best half back I've seen... imo better than Billy Smith or Peter Sterling, and they are both champions.

The simple solution would have been to make both Provan and Johns Immortals, just as they did in 1999 for Langlands and Lewis.

 

[typicalfan]

That is the point i think. If you take the issue of time out of it and pick the guy who was purely the best player then you have to pick Johns IMO. I would have no issue if Norm or Mal were also picked but Johns had to be picked. He is also halfback of the century and he is the best player I have seen personally, didn't see Norm play, did that work against him? That his performances may not have been in the forefront of the mind like Joey is? Either way I am happy Joey was picked.

 

[Willow]

The NRL should just make an official Hall of Fame like most american sports and be done with it FFS.

Really we should go the way of the NFL and have a proper Hall of Fame.

For the Wiki generation...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Rugby_League_Hall_of_Fame

 

[Willow]

didn't see Norm play, did that work against him?

No, it just means you're young.

The new middle-age is 60. People's brains generally don't go the mush as soon as they did in the past.

FTR, most of the judges are well into maturity:

Seven-time Premiership-winning coach Wayne Bennett
Australian Rugby League Commission Chairman John Grant
Channel Nine commentator Ray Warren
2GB and Channel 9 commentator Ray Hadley
Rugby League writers Phil Rothfield and Roy Masters
Former RLW editors Ian Heads, Norman Tasker, Tony Durkin, Geoff Prenter and Martin Lenehan, plus current RLW editor Mitchell Dale
Rugby League historian David Middleton
Immortals Bob Fulton, John Raper, Reg Gasnier, Wally Lewis and Graeme Langlands

http://www.nrl.com/johns-becomes-the-eighth-immortal/tabid/10874/newsid/70110/default.aspx

Looks like 18 judges. By my reckoning, only three would not have seen Norm Provan play. So there's still time for Norm to get the nod.

 

[Eelementary]

Peter Sterling - one of the game's greatest halfbacks, NSW star, Premiership winner, and highly respected analyst and commentator.

 

[Willow]

Peter Sterling - one of the game's greatest halfbacks

Yes, but not as good as Johns. And no better than Provan for on-field presence.

NSW star, Premiership winner

Yes, but no better than Johns and miles behind Provan.

and highly respected analyst and commentator.

Sorry, but entirely irrelevant to the criteria.

Peter Sterling is one the best, no doubt. But I suspect that even he would open the door for Johns and Provan.

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

I'm sure Norm Provan would be the first to congratulate Andrew Johns if the opportunity presented itself.

No one saw Dally Messenger play. It was decided by the judges in 1981 (Frank Hyde was one of the judges) that they could only vote on players that they had seen play. So that's the criteria.

Re Gibson: I understand The Immortals is decided on player's ability on the field, not what they did off the field (including coaching). A big factor in Johns' favour.

Norm Provan deserves it by a country mile. His presence on the field and record as a player speaks for itself. He has nothing to prove and has more accolades and trophies than any Immortal.

But Andrew Johns is also deserving, by virtue of his abilty on the field. He changed the game, and is the best half back I've seen... imo better than Billy Smith or Peter Sterling, and they are both champions.

The simple solution would have been to make both Provan and Johns Immortals, just as they did in 1999 for Langlands and Lewis.

Exactly why it is stupid. We wouldn't be talking any league without Messenger and why should a person like Gibson go without being acknowledged?

 

[typicalfan]

Exactly why it is stupid. We wouldn't be talking any league without Messenger and why should a person like Gibson go without being acknowledged?

In what way though. His playing ability alone isn't enough to be given the status of post war immortal (which is what it is). So this type of award is not for the likes of a Messenger or a Brown or a Burge or a Halloway.

Gibson is a legend of the game but primarily as a coach but I don't see how he isn't acknowledged.

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

There's really no point trying to explain it anymore.

 

[ozbash]

There's really no point trying to explain it anymore.

Sob, sob...

 

[Willow]

Exactly why it is stupid.

I never said it was stupid, just that you wrong in regards to the criteria.

We wouldn't be talking any league without Messenger and why should a person like Gibson go without being acknowledged?

They are acknowledged. The Immortals is just one award.

There's really no point trying to explain it anymore.

lol. If you're on the turps, just say so and I'm sure others will join you in spirit.

 

[Willow]

Sob, sob...

We have to cut Toney some slack. He's been trying to change the world since October 3, 2010.

 

[Fire]

Exactly why it is stupid. We wouldn't be talking any league without Messenger and why should a person like Gibson go without being acknowledged?

You are the most geniused Eastern Suburbs fan I've ever come across, and there is a lot of geniusation in your fan base.

Can't wait until you pull out Freddy should be an Immortal.

You should be banned from the internet.

 

[shane1970]

I think this is a very appropriate decision.

A NSW self confessed drugo is picked as an Immortal by a Sydney-centric, boys club RL community. Makes sense to me!

.
Just stay NORTH of the border genius ! LOVE YOU !

 

[adamkungl]

You are the most geniused Eastern Suburbs fan I've ever come across, and there is a lot of geniusation in your fan base.

Can't wait until you pull out Freddy should be an Immortal.

You should be banned from the internet.

Freddy is maybe a shade less talented than Johns and achieved more in the game... criminal that he isn't mentioned more in these discussions.