The annual finals system debate thread

[Eels Dude]

They're both kind of stupid. A top six would provide consistently competitive football for the most part. Let's be realistic - Newcastle and Parramatta aren't on the same level as the other six sides.

How can you say that?

It's different every year. Broncos finished 6th, but their for and against ranks them 12th. They were abysmall at stages this year. You cannot say they are cleary a head above Parra and Newcastle over 3 measly competition points... the same way you cannot say Parra are better than the Tigers over 1 point. Having 8 out of 16 make the semis just makes logical sense.

 

[18to87]

It's fair that Storm smashed Manly but if the Dragons beat the 8th side as expected both teams simply progress to the 2nd week regardless? Sure, they get another home final, but imagine they were 2 teams from the same state (eg Tigers & Souths) - there would be no advantage whatsoever gained from winning the first final.

I have been trying to say this for a few pages. No matter which way you look at it when 1 and 2 win this system is unfair.

Play 1 v 8 on friday and 2 v 7 on the first saturday game (1 + 2 win) and see how many people care about the next two games. No one!

 

[broncos_warriors_storm]

And teams 3-6 arent on the same level as 1 and 2, where does it end and why?

how can you say that? Dragons, Bulldogs and Storm are on the same level.

Manly, Newcastle, Eels, Broncos, Titans are are the next level.

the top three teams i have named have been clinical, have been brillant and the best. the rest are just pretenders IMO.

Eels to shock first today, giving storm a bye and proving the mcintire system is worth it.

 

[ElectricEelMan]

I have been trying to say this for a few pages. No matter which way you look at it when 1 and 2 win this system is unfair.

Play 1 v 8 on friday and 2 v 7 on the first saturday game (1 + 2 win) and see how many people care about the next two games. No one!

But that is one reason they play those two games last ... to give all the other two games extra meaning. But they still have meaning the 4v5 and 3v6. If the Dragons beat the Eels today, next week games will be:

Brisbane vs Manly
Melbourne vs Titans

I am sorry, but the results of 4v5 and 3v6 were of high importance. Would Manly rather play in Brisbane or in Sydney? Sydney right? Would Brisbane rather play in Brisbane or Melbourne? Brisbane right? Would Melbourne rather play in Melbourne or Brisbane? Melbourne right? Would Gold Coast rather play at home or at Melbourne? Melbourne right? WRONG! At Skilled Stadium of course ... these results and the outcome prove those two games were far from meaningless.

 

[mepelthwack]

Any system that allows the possibilities of the 6th place team advancing to week 3 after 1 win and at the same time team 3 being eliminated in week 1 is farcical.

McIntyre = farcical.

AFL current system is eons ahead of the McIntyre but has it's own (lesser flaws). Throw in an extra week to allow for all top 4 teams getting gauaranteed 2 bites at the cherry (b4 GF day) and making bottom 4 have to play sudden death all the way and we are on the money.

 

[mongoose]

I have been trying to say this for a few pages. No matter which way you look at it when 1 and 2 win this system is unfair.

Play 1 v 8 on friday and 2 v 7 on the first saturday game (1 + 2 win) and see how many people care about the next two games. No one!

the other ridiculous thing is that if the eels win tomorrow the broncos will have to play the dragons next week while the titans will play the eels. unfair that the broncos may have to face the minor premiers because they won.

 

[broncos_warriors_storm]

unfair that the broncos may have to face the minor premiers because they won.

how? if the broncos were good enough to earn a match at Suncorp and if they are title contenders, should it matter who they face? i would like to knock out the minor prems in the second week too.

 

[ElectricEelMan]

Any system that allows the possibilities of the 6th place team advancing to week 3 after 1 win and at the same time team 3 being eliminated in week 1 is farcical.

McIntyre = farcical.

AFL current system is eons ahead of the McIntyre but has it's own (lesser flaws). Throw in an extra week to allow for all top 4 teams getting gauaranteed 2 bites at the cherry (b4 GF day) and making bottom 4 have to play sudden death all the way and we are on the money.

The AFL system is more farcical than the NRL system.

The NRL system awards for performance in the finals. The AFL system does not. You can only earn home finals in the NRL system. You lose. You get no home finals. In the AFL even if you lose in the finals you may get home final. How STUPID is that!

Plus, the minor premiers have a MUCH harder run to get into the grand final in the AFL system. They have to play teams 4 and 3. The minor premiers in the NRL have to play teams 8 and 4.

The love fest for the AFL system is just annoying. I mean if we implemented the AFL system next year, all you AFL system lovers would hate it by this time next year and would be back to loving the NRL system ...

 

[18to87]

But that is one reason they play those two games last ... to give all the other two games extra meaning. But they still have meaning the 4v5 and 3v6. If the Dragons beat the Eels today, next week games will be:

Brisbane vs Manly
Melbourne vs Titans

I am sorry, but the results of 4v5 and 3v6 were of high importance. Would Manly rather play in Brisbane or in Sydney? Sydney right? Would Brisbane rather play in Brisbane or Melbourne? Brisbane right? Would Melbourne rather play in Melbourne or Brisbane? Melbourne right? Would Gold Coast rather play at home or at Melbourne? Melbourne right? WRONG! At Skilled Stadium of course ... these results and the outcome prove those two games were far from meaningless.

16/21 times 1 and 2 have won since 99. Thats over 75% of the time.

Sure there has been some upsets (2 of them by the Dragons mind you) but the reality is that it would be better to just have a 6 team finals than this Week One rubbish. 3 and 4 earned their home game, the only meaning of their week one game is whether they keep home field or not? Otherwise it means nothing!

And of course they put the 1, 2 games on last because no one would care about the NRL for the rest of the weekend if they put them first.

I think an 8 team finals is great but neither the NRL or AFL system is quite good enough although I believe the AFL is slightly better.

 

[ElectricEelMan]

I think an 8 team finals is great but neither the NRL or AFL system is quite good enough although I believe the AFL is slightly better.

I agree with you there in the first bit, but for me the NRL system is better

 

[18to87]

Interestingly if the Dragons lose today then they are really up sh*t creek and would have to win in Suncorp and in Melbourne to get to the GF. Could make arguments for and against the NRL system on that one.

 

[ozjet1]

neither......they're both f**ked.....and all of mcintyre's systems are f**ked as they allow repeat match-ups, and allow teams to get flogged during the finals and still win the premiership (from 6th in the 8).

all finals matches should be sudden-death. the reward for the top teams should be a bye in Wk 1 and home advantage. there's 5-6 months of the regular season for teams to lose games. The fundamental principle of finals should be win and advance to the next stage.

 

[Cumberland Throw]

I now love you Bob McIntyre

 

[Bezant]

It kept me interested in the results all weekend. It (mcintyre) is ultimately fairer than the afl system in my mind. A compromise worth looking at is the new finals format used by league in the uk. It's worth a look.

 

[Loudstrat]

They're both kind of stupid. A top six would provide consistently competitive football for the most part. Let's be realistic - Newcastle and Parramatta aren't on the same level as the other six sides.

25-12 over minor premiers, and have the scalps of both week 3 teams. :lol:

all finals matches should be sudden-death.

No finals series has ever had that!

 

[nomarg]

I want to change my vote

Manly gone- = Macintire love!

 

[mattystans000]

Funny thing is (regardless of which is better), if we applied the AFL system to this years comp along with this weeks form line we'd end up with two of the same games this week being played next week instead.

(1) Dragons lose to Storm (4)
(2) Dogs beat Titans (3)
(5) Eagles lose to Eels (8)
(6) Broncos beat Knights (7)

giving us semi finals of:

Dragons v Eels
Titans v Brisbane

 

[Ulysseus]

Or the way I'd have it, the premiership goes to the Minor Premiers.

The game of RL in Australia has been there and done that, no one would give a f**k.

 

[hellteam]

25-12 over minor premiers, and have the scalps of both week 3 teams. :lol:


No finals series has ever had that!

They use that system (sudden death) in the NFL, I think that's what he is referring to.

 

[Bluebags1908]

Everyone keeps talking about the NRL system vs AFL system - but they are both flawed. I slightly favour the NRL system, but any formula that gives team 3, 4, 5, and 6 a second chance in week 1 but no second chance to teams 1, 2, 3, or 4 in week 3 sucks.

Both NRL and AFL system has teams 1 and 2 eliminated in week 3 with no second chance whilst giving lower-ranked teams a second chance in week 1. They both suck.

What needs to happen is this (highest team assume will win in examples below):

Week 1-
1 vs 4 - winner week 3, loser week 2.
2 vs 3 - winner week 3, loser week 2.
5 vs 8 - winner week 2, loser eliminated.
6 vs 7 - winner week 2, loser eliminated.

Week 2 -
1 and 2 = week off.
3 vs 6 - winner week 3, loser eliminated.
4 vs 5 - winner week 3, loser eliminated.
Note: highest-ranked loser week 1 plays lowest-ranked winner week 1 (e.g. 3 vs 6). Highest-ranked teams on competition table still get home-ground advantage even through they lost the previous week.

Week 3 -
1 vs 2 - winner = week 5 (Grand Final), loser week 4.
Note: both teams had the week off so no-one is 'disadvantaged' by the week off.

3 vs 4 - winner week 4, loser eliminated.

Week 4 -
1 = week off.
2 vs 3 - winner week 5 (grand final), loser eliminated.

Week 5 (Grand Final) -
1 vs 2 - winner = Premiers. Loser = runner-up.

We will then have 5 weeks of finals instead of 4, and 10 games instead of 9. 1st and 2nd are guaranteed a 2nd chance in week 3, and if 1st and 2nd also lose again in week 4 then bad luck. Teams 5, 6, 7, 8 have to win 5 games to win the comp instead of 4. If teams 3 and 4 lose in week 1 they have to have 4 sudden-death games to win the comp.

The only negatives I can see are:
The team that qualifies first to the grand final in week 3 will have had the week off in weeks 2 and 4 and doesn't help in their momentum. But to nullify this to an extent, the game in week 3 will be against an opponent that also had the week off in week 2 ( for e.g. 1 vs 2) so this nullifies that preceived disadvantage. The team that qualifies first into the grand final also had 2 weeks off during the finals under the old top 5 system.

Both teams that meet in the Grand Final are likely to have met during the previous finals matches. But this is the trade-off we have to pay for 1 and 2 getting a second chance in week 3 (which they deserve). And this possibility was always the case in the old top 4 and top 5 finals system and nobody complained.