The annual finals system debate thread

[taste2taste]

I feel for the Dragons fans.

The Drags were the best team over the last 26 weeks, with 1 loss the advantage they fought so hard for is out the window. They have to play against the team who finished 6th at their home ground.

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

It kept me interested in the results all weekend. It (mcintyre) is ultimately fairer than the afl system in my mind. A compromise worth looking at is the new finals format used by league in the uk. It's worth a look.

The Super League system is the same as the AFL one except in week 3, the high ranked team that got the week off, can choose which semi final winner they want to play.

Im happy with the McIntyre system for the next 4 years, but when we have 18 teams, id go for the top 10. Id consider a top 9, but the top 10 is basically just the top 5 doubled.

 

[Shorty]

I feel for the Dragons fans.

The Drags were the best team over the last 26 weeks, with 1 loss the advantage they fought so hard for is out the window. They have to play against the team who finished 6th at their home ground.

So maybe, just maybe, because they did SO well in the season they could have well and truly beaten Parramatta.

What else? If they lose this weekend should they be exempt from elimination because they did so well in all the rounds?
Maybe we should just give the premiership to them?

They lost, they have nobody to blame but themselves.

 

[hugzy]

can the nimrods who voted our system please put their hands up?

 

[taste2taste]

So maybe, just maybe, because they did SO well in the season they could have well and truly beaten Parramatta.

What else? If they lose this weekend should they be exempt from elimination because they did so well in all the rounds?
Maybe we should just give the premiership to them?

They lost, they have nobody to blame but themselves.

With the salary cap any team is capable of beating any team...yes, even team 8 can beat team 1.

My piont is, its ridiculous that the minor premiers have to play thier next 2 games on the lower ranked teams home field...in all other major sports home ground advantage is given to the highest ranked team...other wise whats the reward for the teams finshing top of the ladder....1 home game in week 1...hardly worth busting your gut all season for.

 

[Shorty]

And the Dragons did get a home ground advantage and would have retained it had they won.
If a team that has played well all season and finishes ontop of the ladder doesn't beat a lower ranked team then nothing else can be done.
It's not hard to understand, it's great to be playing well and get to the finals but what teams do in the finals is completely up to the team.

 

[Gaba]

the finals are meant to be for every team to play thier best, not half of the finals teams can play knowing they get a 2nd chance aka afl system


by teams 1 and 2 not really having more advantage them teams 3 and 4

teams 3 and 4 know if they lose week 1 they will be back next week

no excitement in those games


where the mcintyre system makes teams play better, apart from teams 1 and 2 the other teams dont know whether they are playing next week if they lose

 

[ElectricEelMan]

With the salary cap any team is capable of beating any team...yes, even team 8 can beat team 1.

My piont is, its ridiculous that the minor premiers have to play thier next 2 games on the lower ranked teams home field...in all other major sports home ground advantage is given to the highest ranked team...other wise whats the reward for the teams finshing top of the ladder....1 home game in week 1...hardly worth busting your gut all season for.

The Dragons are punished cause they lost. They were given the 'easiest' game of the week at home and lost.

Also, in the AFL system the minor premiers are no better off than in the NRL system since they have to play 'harder' teams to get into the grand final. 'Harder' = higher placed teams.

Unfortunately for the Dragons, this Eels team are not an atypical 8th placed team. They are more like a top 4 team or perhaps even a top 2 team ...

 

[Mr Angry]

I prefer the current System.

Team 1 & 2 get a life first week of finals and get to play the worst rank teams in week one. And the worst rank teams have to beat the best two teams.

Winners are rewarded in the first week and losers are punished.

Team 2 - The Dogs won - reward week off and home semi
Team 4 - The Storm won - reward week off and home semi
Team 6 - The Broncos won - reward home semi
Team 8 - The Eels won - reward home semi

Team 1 - Illawarra lost - reward for being first, not knocked out - punishment for losing, play away semi
Team 3 - The Titans lost - punishment for losing - play away semi - rewarded for being higher placed - not knocked out.
Team 5 - Manly lost - punishment - out of competition
Team 7 - The Knights lost - punishment out of competition


IMO this is a good system, rewards winning teams and punishes losing teams.

 

[ozjet1]

I now love you Bob McIntyre

his name was Ken.

 

[ozjet1]

I prefer the current System.

Team 1 & 2 get a life first week of finals and get to play the worst rank teams in week one. And the worst rank teams have to beat the best two teams.

Winners are rewarded in the first week and losers are punished.

Team 2 - The Dogs won - reward week off and home semi
Team 4 - The Storm won - reward week off and home semi
Team 6 - The Broncos won - reward home semi
Team 8 - The Eels won - reward home semi

Team 1 - Illawarra lost - reward for being first, not knocked out - punishment for losing, play away semi
Team 3 - The Titans lost - punishment for losing - play away semi - rewarded for being higher placed - not knocked out.
Team 5 - Manly lost - punishment - out of competition
Team 7 - The Knights lost - punishment out of competition


IMO this is a good system, rewards winning teams and punishes losing teams.

there's no doubt that the statistical merits of the system re the probabilities of each team being able to win the premiership based on their seeding, is much better than the system currently employed by the AFL. Ken McIntyre was a mathematician, amongst other things, and the statistical merits of his systems is what set them apart from others.

but in a practical sense, they are flawed by the double chance and the possibility of re-matches. The 8 is extremely flawed in that if Wk 1 results eventuate as expected in terms of the probabilities, the 2nd week renders the results of matches between seeds 3, 4, 5, & 6 in wk 1 virtually pointless.

 

[Eels Dude]

Just on a side note, let's compare the NRL system vs the NRL system if used this previous wknd. 1 v 4 = dragons v storm. Storm won this weekend and the Dragons lost. 2 v 3 = Dogs v Titans. Dogs won this wknd Titans lost. 5 v 8 = Manly v Parra. Parra won this wknd and Manly lost. 6 v 7 = Brisbane v Knights. Brisbane won this wknd and the Knights lost.

Nothing to take from that, but under the AFL system eprhaps we'd have the same results.

 

[Mr Angry]

there's no doubt that the statistical merits of the system re the probabilities of each team being able to win the premiership based on their seeding, is much better than the system currently employed by the AFL. Ken McIntyre was a mathematician, amongst other things, and the statistical merits of his systems is what set them apart from others.

but in a practical sense, they are flawed by the double chance and the possibility of re-matches. The 8 is extremely flawed in that if Wk 1 results eventuate as expected in terms of the probabilities, the 2nd week renders the results of matches between seeds 3, 4, 5, & 6 in wk 1 virtually pointless.

Well let me tell ya I would be happy with a top 5 and the associated system, but if we must have 8 teams qualify then I prefer this system to the AFL one.

 

[Goddo]

I don't mind the current system. If they want to properly reward the minor premiers in the future, give them a decent cash prize. I mean, we give News Corp $10m a year for super league, yet minor premiers is 100k; p*ss weak

 

[forward pass]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think in the AFL system the sides that finish 3rd and 4th can never meet in the Grand Final. Is that right?

If so, then it is ridiculous, but I am not 100 % sure if that is the case.

 

[Non Terminator]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think in the AFL system the sides that finish 3rd and 4th can never meet in the Grand Final. Is that right?

If so, then it is ridiculous, but I am not 100 % sure if that is the case.

If 3 beats 2 and 4 beats 1 in the first week, that would see them as possible GF opponents.

 

[Non Terminator]

the finals are meant to be for every team to play thier best, not half of the finals teams can play knowing they get a 2nd chance aka afl system


by teams 1 and 2 not really having more advantage them teams 3 and 4

teams 3 and 4 know if they lose week 1 they will be back next week

no excitement in those games


where the mcintyre system makes teams play better, apart from teams 1 and 2 the other teams dont know whether they are playing next week if they lose

Both Gold Coast and Melbourne were one result from going out in round one this year.

 

[Storm4Ever]

afl system, the nrl system is screwed:x

 

[Man_of_Steel_1982]

if you want a five week system, the fair one is...

1v4
2v3
5v8
6v7

7 & 8 gone, 1 & 2 bye

---------------------

3v6
4v5

5 & 6 gone

---------------------

1v2
3v4

4 gone, 1 bye

---------------------

2v3

3 gone

---------------------

1v2

YES! That's what I meant ;-)

The point being, use the old ARL system but in week three, swap over so that the two winners from week one play off for the GF, and get a guaranteed second bite at the cherry.

So it would have gone like this, using your numbers with this year's teams:

Week 1:
Dragons vs Storm @ WIN Jubilee
Bulldogs vs Titans @ ANZ
Sea Eagles vs Eels @ Brookvale
Broncos vs Knights @ Suncorp

Week 2:
Titans vs Broncos @ Skilled
Storm vs Sea Eagles @ Etihad

Week 3:
Dragons vs Bulldogs @ SFS
Titans vs Storm @ Suncorp

Week 4:
Bulldogs vs Titans @ ANZ

Week 5: GRAND FINAL
Dragons vs Bulldogs @ ANZ

 

[Loudstrat]

With the salary cap any team is capable of beating any team...yes, even team 8 can beat team 1.

My piont is, its ridiculous that the minor premiers have to play thier next 2 games on the lower ranked teams home field...in all other major sports home ground advantage is given to the highest ranked team...other wise whats the reward for the teams finshing top of the ladder....1 home game in week 1...hardly worth busting your gut all season for.

1 home game and a second bite at the cherry.

And the Dragons did get a home ground advantage and would have retained it had they won.
If a team that has played well all season and finishes ontop of the ladder doesn't beat a lower ranked team then nothing else can be done.
It's not hard to understand, it's great to be playing well and get to the finals but what teams do in the finals is completely up to the team.

People forget the old final 5 setup sees higher ranking teams lose all benefits if they lose, by going from a Sunday game with a second chance, to a Saturday game (shorter turnaround) in sudden death.

Finals is about winning. Team 1 gets the maximum advantage, but if they lose against lowly team 8, what other advantage should they get apart from a second chance?