The annual finals system debate thread

[STG-Dragon]

Oops clicked NRL by habit (over AFL ). This system the NRL uses is f**king sh*t house and I have thought this for ages!

 

[Parra]

and then there will be arguments that interstate teams who have a right to home games arent getting them.

there's no problem with how the home advantage is awarded under the mcintyre system.

the problem is that the play-off system itself isnt suited to a competition which operates such a long regular season. the system in use by the AFL would be more appropriate to take into account the performance over the longer regular season.

furthermore, people need to understand that these games are play-offs, not an extension of the regular season.....and there's always something riding on playoffs in any sport. otherwise the stakes wouldnt be so high. for the bottom seeds in the mcintyre 8, its elimination from the series. for the top seeds, its loss of home adv as a trade off for the double-chance. the top seeds cant have it all.

as i wrote in another thread, comparison with the system the AFL currently use is akin to comparing apples with oranges. that system segregates the teams into top 4 and bottom 4 - qualifying finalists & elimination finalists. this segregation doesnt occur in the mcintyre 8. the top 4 in the AFL actually play higher seeds in the 1st week than the top 4 in the mcintyre 8, and the bottom 4 in the AFL play lower seeds than the bottom 4 in the mcintyre 8. for this reason, it would be a serious fault in the AFL system if the lower seeds got the home game in wk 2.

I don't see the benefit in rewarding mediocrity. Who wants to see the bottom 4 playing each other anyway? That just delays the inevitable - they have to play the teams at the top anyway. Might as well do it in week one.

 

[Cerne Abbas Giant]

The McIntyre system is flawed because it assumes the 8th placed team is weak. If the teams are fairly even, there's no real benefit to the top 4 teams.

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

The McIntyre system is flawed because it assumes the 8th placed team is weak. If the teams are fairly even, there's no real benefit to the top 4 teams.

That is a correct assumption if comparing 1st to 8th. What would you have us do? At the end of the regular season say "hmm, well the 8th side is better then 3rd so lets have 8th vs 2nd in week one".

 

[mongoose]

I'm happy with the mcintyre system. The only modification i would make is that the team that finishes higher on the table should always get the home ground advantage in week 2. Meaning the Titans v Eels game should have been at Skilled and the Dragons v Broncos game should be in sydney.

 

[Cerne Abbas Giant]

That is a correct assumption if comparing 1st to 8th. What would you have us do? At the end of the regular season say "hmm, well the 8th side is better then 3rd so lets have 8th vs 2nd in week one".

Use AFL system

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

Use AFL system

Back to the assumption that the 8th team is strong, the 8th team then have an easier run to the finals then in the McIntyre system. Look at Parra this year, they beat the Minor Premiers, last night we beat the 3rd placed Titans and next week we have to play the 2nd placed Bulldogs. We have to beat 1st, 2nd and 3rd to play in the GF.

 

[Western_Eel]

It will never change so this thread is pointless

 

[mepelthwack]

The fact that teams 1 though 8 can be so even just highlights even more why the AFL system is superior.

Teams 3 and 4 should never be eliminated in week 1 and teams 5 and 6 never deserve to be promoted with a week off.

If you come in the top 4, you have earnt your right to a 2nd bite and 2nd week homefinal if you lose in week 1.

If you finish in the lower half of the 8 you should play constant sudden death. Not like the Cowboys of 05 who did not deserve their 2nd chance.

Everyone knows the stakes with all games before kickoff. Theoretically the matchups should be more even meaning better games, unlike prior to the past 2 years where 8 v 1 was a massive yawn for everyone (other than fans of the minor premiers).

Clearly it also rewards teams better based on their end of season finish, as opposed to rewarding late form surge teams (outside top 4) as is very possible with the McIntyre.

 

[Parra]

The fact that teams 1 though 8 can be so even just highlights even more why the AFL system is superior.

Teams 3 and 4 should never be eliminated in week 1 and teams 5 and 6 never deserve to be promoted with a week off.

If you come in the top 4, you have earnt your right to a 2nd bite and 2nd week homefinal if you lose in week 1.

If you finish in the lower half of the 8 you should play constant sudden death. Not like the Cowboys of 05 who did not deserve their 2nd chance.

Everyone knows the stakes with all games before kickoff. Theoretically the matchups should be more even meaning better games, unlike prior to the past 2 years where 8 v 1 was a massive yawn for everyone (other than fans of the minor premiers).

Clearly it also rewards teams better based on their end of season finish, as opposed to rewarding late form surge teams (outside top 4) as is very possible with the McIntyre.

Why is '4' your magic number?

What a load of crap - no-one outside the minor premiers deserve any advantage.

In the NRL system if Parra - from eighth - make the Grand Final then they will have had to beat 1,2 & 3 on the way through.

The AFL system rewards mediocrity because it has to. The NRL doesn't, because it doesn't have to.

Super 14 is even more brutal with the top-4 all sudden death format. no-one whinges that losers should be rewarded there either.

 

[Cerne Abbas Giant]

If Melbourne had lost against Manly, we could have been eliminated had other results gone against us. Ludicrous.

 

[Parra]

If Melbourne had lost against Manly, we could have been eliminated had other results gone against us. Ludicrous.

you want to run 4th, lose and still be guaranteed a game next week? That's a normal round, not a final.

Maybe they should reward all teams for 'doing their best'

 

[Brycey]

I love the McIntyre system.

The phrase 'its a whole new season' represents everything that the McIntyre system stands for.

Finals is about winning, not losers and the MIS holds no prisoners. Top 2 get a second bite at the cherry, the other 6 are all up for contention which makes it more exciting than the AFL system with just 4.

Seriously what else do the minor premiers need, they get the JJG Shield, 100k and the prestige, being minor premiers shouldnt be a free pass to the GF. You've got to be good enough in the finals or youre out on your arse

 

[mepelthwack]

Why is '4' your magic number?

What a load of crap - no-one outside the minor premiers deserve any advantage.

In the NRL system if Parra - from eighth - make the Grand Final then they will have had to beat 1,2 & 3 on the way through.

The AFL system rewards mediocrity because it has to. The NRL doesn't, because it doesn't have to.

Super 14 is even more brutal with the top-4 all sudden death format. no-one whinges that losers should be rewarded there either.

The top 4 are more deserving of advantages than the bottom 4, that's obvious.

Whoopdedoo about Parramatta and their situation. That has absolutely nothing to do with the merits or flaws of the McIntyre or any other system.

The McIntyre DOES reward mediocrity. Does it get any more mediocre than Cowboys 05 coming 5th and having 50 put on them yet being allowed to continue? Such a scenario can not and will not happen in a system where the bottom 4 are forced to play sudden death every week as should be their burden for missing the top 4!

 

[ElectricEelMan]

The top 4 are more deserving of advantages than the bottom 4, that's obvious.

Whoopdedoo about Parramatta and their situation. That has absolutely nothing to do with the merits or flaws of the McIntyre or any other system.

The McIntyre DOES reward mediocrity. Does it get any more mediocre than Cowboys 05 coming 5th and having 50 put on them yet being allowed to continue? Such a scenario can not and will not happen in a system where the bottom 4 are forced to play sudden death every week as should be their burden for missing the top 4!

The AFL rewards mediocrity by giving teams who lose, a home final. That does NOT happen in the McIntyre. In fact the NRL system rewards teams for winning and punishes team for losing ... the AFL system does NOT. And teams 5 and 6 should NEVER get a guaranteed home final like what happens in the AFL. The only way teams 5 and 6 can get a home final in the NRL system is by winning.

The AFL system is mediocre and most of you AFL systems lovers won't see that unless the NRL implements and then ALL OF YOU will be bitching about it.

 

[SGID]

NRL chief executive David Gallop says the competition's controversial McIntyre finals system is here to stay.

Critics of the system have been out in force during the finals series, as Parramatta came from eighth position on the ladder to qualify for Sunday's grand final against a Melbourne team who finished fourth following the home-and-away rounds.

Most of the anti-McIntyre arguments this season have surrounded the exits of Manly and St George Illawarra.

Defending premiers Manly had to wait two days before learning of their exit in the first week of finals, losing to the Storm in a Friday night match and only being knocked out when the Eels upset the Dragons that Sunday.

The minor premier Dragons then had to travel to Brisbane in week two despite finishing five places higher than the Broncos on the ladder, going down 24-10 to have their season ended.

That led many to suggest the NRL adopt the AFL's finals system, but Gallop said no such move was being considered.

"A lot gets debated every year about the McIntyre system but we're pleased about what it's produced," he told reporters.

"It's a system that is the right one, we believe, for rugby league with the mid-season impact of rep footy.

"One playing eight and two playing seven makes sense to us.

"If you're good enough from seventh or eighth and you keep winning then you can get through to the grand final and that's what we've seen with Parramatta.

"We're pretty pleased with how it's turned out."

Gallop says teams making a late-season charge towards the grand final, such as the Eels this year and the Wests Tigers in seasons before them, should be applauded and deserved due reward.

"These days clubs are very conscious of the fact they need to be firing in September," he said.

"That's part of rugby league these days, getting through the attrition of a long season and peaking at the right time."

Gallop said this year's finals series had been a success for the game after an at-times troubled year on the field, culminating in last Friday's blockbuster preliminary final in front of a full house at ANZ Stadium between the Eels and Bulldogs.

"Obviously Friday night was a special night for the game," he said.

"To have 75,000 fans here, two big traditional Sydney clubs playing off for the one spot, was very important for us."

Gallop also said the two-referee system, which will be used for the first time at Sunday's grand final, had been a success in its inaugural season.

"The speed of the ruck, the speed of the game generally, the opportunity for the smaller guys to make an impact on the game has been what's made the footy on the field so exciting in 2009," he said.

"Our two-referee system has been a large part of that improvement."

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...tay-david-gallop/story-e6frexnr-1225780827449

 

[Goddo]

I think one good thing about the current system is that it is more likely to take games to more locations than if say the top 4 were at home every game.

I dont think the minor premiers need to be rewarded more in the finals... the minor premiership needs to be worth more on its own.

 

[gong_eagle]

A few glitches that could be changed, no one has really come out with a better system apart from the AFL model, week 2 games should favour the higher finishing teams win or lose to home city not home ground,

 

[stuke]

the McIntyre system has worked this year in the fact that the two teams in the GF are the two teams in the best form at the moment. add to this that both teams have got there from different ways (Storm with the benefits from the week off that top teams can get, Parra working there way through beating teams ranked #1, #2 and #3) and I can't see much wrong with it.

 

[adamkungl]

good