The big NRL divide

[Bazal]

I believe Burton is our most talented junior since Luke Lewis or even Freddy. He will be a star but he'll need some forwards and a hooker

Yep he looks a gun, but not sure he can do much off Jeremy Marshall-King and Simone Katoa, behind Josh Jackson.

Plus he's gonna go from filling in with a team going great guns to being the one and only man for a pack of spuds. Hard change for a young kid

 

[Smug Panther]

Yep he looks a gun, but not sure he can do much off Jeremy Marshall-King and Simone Katoa, behind Josh Jackson.

Plus he's gonna go from filling in with a team going great guns to being the one and only man for a pack of spuds. Hard change for a young kid

His massive boot is going to get a workout

 

[The Charlatan]

Ivan had nothing to do with Tigers signing the likes of Doeuhi, Roberts, BJ Leilua etc. As bad as his recruitment was. It's really not much different than before he arrived or after hr left.

Tigers are just a club that cant really attract the genuine NRL superstars and either need to sign blokes hoping they become them, or pay overs to get solid first graders who can quickly become shit and f**k the cap.

The real slap in the face for Tigers is when they do get guys with superstar potential on reasonable deals, those merkins want out to get bigger money at a more successful club. That's what makes success difficult for them.

Hopefully Daine Laurie is not another Aloiai or Matterson. He's good enough and on a low enough contract they can get some success building around him. Just need to stop buying solid guys on huge money when they can probably develop similar quality for far less.

That's precisely it. Despite my dislike for Ivan, he was coming in off the back off the last three coaches either having been sacked or not renewed after being undermined by the playing group. I do understand why he went for the big money quick fix manouevre because the club and fans were screaming for results and we had lost three of our four most touted juniors (one of whom was club captain,) to other clubs. It looked good when we had a good start to our first full season with him at the helm when we won something like 6 of our first 7 but then the style of heavy defense took its toll through wear and injuries and we bundled out.

Madge has adopted the approach that is unfortunately required at a club like Wests whom haven't seen any base line success for a ridiculous amount of time in the NRL era. Problem is should have been undertaken years ago and now the fans are more than fed up and don't want to wait any more. I know I'm f**king fed up of not seeing black white and orange feature in September.

 

[snickers007]

The problem is we have two clubs in the NRL which don't have a junior base, Melbourne is understandable due to them expanding to an area with no history of the game. The other team is far less understandable and make no sense as a standalone venture and really add nothing to the competition but it's never brought up and they are endlessly praised in the media despite the fact that if they were forced to merge years ago the game would be a hell of a lot stronger now.

Teams should be compensated for the junior players they bring through with larger salary cap exemptions it will allow teams to bring through players and keep a team together. When they look to expand the game they should look at areas which could be self sustainable one day via junior development.

I'm having a blonde moment. Who is the second team?

 

[davi]

I dont care if people like the current rules but I do feel like the media is very interested in not letting any criticism be heard.

The injury issue firstly. It seems to me the current interpretation of the game is increasing fatigue and players risk of injury. Thats probably a discussion for another thread.

Ben Hunt has broken ranks and said the new rules has sped the game up which is increasing the injury toll. Gus Gould who is a massive fan of the new rules said the new rules are not meant to speed the game up. He suggested it wouldn't speed the game up if the refs didn't get so trigger happy on calling six again's.

I'm not calling going back to the old system with deliberate penalty's do the defensive side can have a breather and get set. Or a penalty gets blown and then a captain walks over and deliberately starts arguing with the ref to slow momentum. However, it doesn't mean the six again can't be monitored to make sure its officiated correctly.

 

[shear_joy9]

Ben Hunt has broken ranks and said the new rules has sped the game up which is increasing the injury toll. Gus Gould who is a massive fan of the new rules said the new rules are not meant to speed the game up. He suggested it wouldn't speed the game up if the refs didn't get so trigger happy on calling six again's.

I'm not calling going back to the old system with deliberate penalty's do the defensive side can have a breather and get set. Or a penalty gets blown and then a captain walks over and deliberately starts arguing with the ref to slow momentum. However, it doesn't mean the six again can't be monitored to make sure its officiated correctly.

and Cody Walker has said the new rules are great and wants the game to be even faster.

if some players think the game is too fast, do more cardio training and less weights. Or they can f**k off to union

 

[The_Frog]

The problem is we have two clubs in the NRL which don't have a junior base, Melbourne is understandable due to them expanding to an area with no history of the game. The other team is far less understandable and make no sense as a standalone venture and really add nothing to the competition but it's never brought up and they are endlessly praised in the media despite the fact that if they were forced to merge years ago the game would be a hell of a lot stronger now.

Teams should be compensated for the junior players they bring through with larger salary cap exemptions it will allow teams to bring through players and keep a team together. When they look to expand the game they should look at areas which could be self sustainable one day via junior development.

They are backed by very wealthy business interests. That is enough. Being a club that likes to win, they also understand the value of player development, so having next to no juniors in their area they bring in kids from outside as teenagers, along with the topliners they poach. It's a very successful model.

 

[The_Frog]

I believe Burton is our most talented junior since Luke Lewis or even Freddy. He will be a star but he'll need some forwards and a hooker

If he's that good he'll end up where Freddy ended up.

 

[Captain Apollo]

Well it has to be funded and run by the ARLC at a fixed cost per year might have to have all 16 clubs receive a percentage less in the grant to pay for it, hence why i meant only for the interstate teams to get flown around for the bulk of that specific conference. Its almost like a emerging player tax, regardless of the team being in sydney or not, its a good way to ensure that their are youngers players coming thru every clubs development programs, instead what it is now with just a few clubs pumping out the production line, and the rest just poaching of them

As I said, where is the ARLC going to find the money? If they try taking it out of the club grants, I'd suggest the clubs would move to sack the entire ARLC Board as many clubs are not in great financial health at the moment.

Junior development is more than just having a national u/20s competition.

Also people don't have great memories of the criticisms of the U/20s comp about how it was all geared towards attack with defence being almost non-existent, and how the step up from u/20s to first grade was too great. Briging it back is not going to fix those problems, nor is it going to fix the divide between the top and bottom clubs as much of the problem is piss poor salary cap/roster management related.

 

[davi]

and Cody Walker has said the new rules are great and wants the game to be even faster.

if some players think the game is too fast, do more cardio training and less weights. Or they can f**k off to union

Yeah I don't completely agree with what you have said. There making the scrum less prominent. It can go to a point where it can go too far, and we may as well be playing touch football. I think there needs to be a balance. I'm happy to keep the rules that are in place, but no more meddling with it and let teams get more accustomed to it.

 

[typicalfan]

As I said, where is the ARLC going to find the money? If they try taking it out of the club grants, I'd suggest the clubs would move to sack the entire ARLC Board as many clubs are not in great financial health at the moment.

Junior development is more than just having a national u/20s competition.

Also people don't have great memories of the criticisms of the U/20s comp about how it was all geared towards attack with defence being almost non-existent, and how the step up from u/20s to first grade was too great. Briging it back is not going to fix those problems, nor is it going to fix the divide between the top and bottom clubs as much of the problem is piss poor salary cap/roster management related.

Yes but the solution to the problem was not getting rid of it. Of course the step up is too great its basically a national Jersey Flegg competition, it needed an equivalent reserve grade to keep the players development going past 20 years old, plus the games were 80 minutes unlike 70 that Jersey Flegg was before hand.

 

[Zoe Palmer]

That is the result of poor planning by the Tigers management. I mean if you look at many other clubs, how often do they have that many of its key players all come off contract at the same time? Rarely ever.

It does go back to the old Jack Gibson adage that "winning starts in the front office" and the problem is apparent when you look at the teams currently struggling. They either have, or are just starting to get over, problems in their administration.

Exactly why the Rabbitohs and being hard on Reynolds. They are thinking ahead

 

[Perth Red]

The problem is we have two clubs in the NRL which don't have a junior base, Melbourne is understandable due to them expanding to an area with no history of the game..

that is pretty debateable in the sense that most of Melbourne’s stars have come through their elite jnr development system they have set up in partnerships in queensland. The problem they have is the nrl dont fund the Vic nrl properly so there aren’t the critical mass of kids playing the game in Victoria, or the U16 quality of coaches etc, that you need to take the cream from and turn into first graders. Storm do a cracking job at finding the best 16-18 year olds and turning them into first graders. I don’t see general getting kids playing the game in large numbers and having decent junior clubs as an nrl clubs responsibility. It’s either stage leagues or pokie fed league clubs that should be doing that.

 

[Perth Red]

The problem though, especially in the short term due to the state of the economy, is cost. Where does the extra money come from to fund the extra transportation and accommodation costs even if it only 50% of the clubs flying around? Its not like the NRL nor the clubs have a big surplus of revenue to draw on.

they are allegedly about to spend $13mill a year on another Brisbane club. You could pay for a full reserve grade, nrlw expansion and u20’s with that. Besides I thought Vlandys had saved a motza on admin, nrl must be flush with cash lol.

 

[big hit!]

Ben Hunt has broken ranks and said the new rules has sped the game up which is increasing the injury toll. Gus Gould who is a massive fan of the new rules said the new rules are not meant to speed the game up. He suggested it wouldn't speed the game up if the refs didn't get so trigger happy on calling six again's.

The frustrating thing is seeing the defence dominate the ball carrier with good contact and putting the carrier on his back, but then be pinged. The defenders have earned the right to slow the play down IMO with a dominant tackle.

The goal of the defence is for markers to be up and square and the defensive line back the ten before the baller carrier has played the ball. The goal of the ball carrier is the opposite. There are players in the game that are outstanding at the QPTB, such as Cam Murray. IMO though, the refs are trying to give it to players that aren't and penalising the defence for it.

Obviously, if tacklers haven't dominated and/or markers are lazy, then yes ping them for a ruck infringement. But good defence should be rewarded. Otherwise, we'll just see defensive lines back on their heels like touch footy and the game fast just for the sake of it

 

[Perth Red]

Got to remember refs are playing catch up as well. They have had massive changes in last two seasons to contend with that have had little time to prepare for. I think we see more discretion eventually come in, the message they have been given by the nrl is speed the ptb up and they are just doing as told.

 

[anjado]

They are backed by very wealthy business interests. That is enough. Being a club that likes to win, they also understand the value of player development, so having next to no juniors in their area they bring in kids from outside as teenagers, along with the topliners they poach. It's a very successful model.

Those business interests are mainly a man in his late 70's what happens when he leaves or passes on ? They have had unprecedented good press and success over the past 20-25 years, they get every advantage handed to them but what happens when they don't get success for a sustained period ? Honestly with the teams they have hadthey should average 25,000 people per game they helped drive out any competition from other clubs too.

I know what they do is successful and how they recruit players they have been doing it since the 90's. But that wouldn't have changed if they merged with another inner city team 20 years ago, they would have more supporters, more juniors and be run the same, by the same token they have been successful every season since 1995 barring one or two seasons yet their crowd's if you take away the anzac day match which inflates their true figure aren't that great for the only team based in the city.

So if one day other clubs get their act together and focus on recruitment they will really become a club which is an albatross around the NRL's neck they would become the weakest club yet the only club playing in the city.

They are basically set up like an expansion team when they shouldn't be I think when things start to go down they will be stuffed.

Anyways im moving away from the point.

The gap is mainly down to coaching, junior recruitment and fitness.

6 premiership chances

Penrith
Canberra
Souths
Roosters
Storm
Eels

2 possible top 6 contenders.

Newcastle (Should make the 8 but injuries will hurt them)
Cronulla (Cronulla could have a really good season if Moylan continues with his current form and Johnson comes back and plays well I genuinely think they are a chance at pushing out one of the top 6 clubs)

Top 8 contenders

Gold Coast (Need one of their halves to fulfill their potential)
Warriors (If they can get some games in New Zealand I think they will do well)
Dragons (They have improved a lot just by playing a fairly simple game)

Should improve as the season goes on.

Tigers (I think the Tigers have improved a lot since dropping Joey Leilua but they need to continue to work on their defence if they can become more competent they will win games because I think they are capable of scoring 20 points per game)

Broncos (It's weird saying this after a 40 point loss but I think they are slowly getting their they need to improve their fitness massively and cut out silly errors)

Complete shithouse but have hope for next season

Bulldogs (Awful and horrendous but have players coming in which will improve them enormously this season is about finding out who get's to play with those guys)

Complete shithouse

Manly (Too much of their cap is tied to under performing players)
North Queensland (Terrible retention of players hopefully they have a few more coming through)

The problem with the bottom three teams is coaching, they are playing a style of football which is too robotic. You watch the top teams play and their is constant movement, the bottom three teams constantly just take hit up's and try to set up for one attacking play per set. It isn't enough It's like players have been so robotic for so long that now the game has been sped up to it's natural speed players have forgotten how to play football.

 

[Big Pete]

I really feel your front office like many struggling clubs was the cause and now that ownership/control of the club is now stable and has a plan with madge i can see them becoming a force in a couple of years

That's a fair point, but by the same token it's difficult to attract quality management when you're a struggling club. This could be fixed if clubs were protected while they were going through a rebuild but as it stands they just see very little reward out of it.

Sure but they also signed Packer and Matulino for around 600k ish, and allegedly Josh Reynolds for 800k or more. And Mbye for similar.

I don't think it was entirely about the money. I think what happened was after Sheensy, the club attempted to rebuild around these gun players coming through the grades. However it was going to be a long process and instead of being able to enjoy the fruits of their labour, clubs were constantly coming along with good offers and better opportunities at their club. Essentially they just became a glorified feeder club and they were a rabble.

So that's when they brought in Cleary and they went in an opposite direction. You can sort of understand it from Cleary's perspective as well. He went along with Penrith's attempt at a rebuild, they had one horrible season with injury and he was punted despite getting them to a prelim the year prior.

I think Madge has largely been good for them but his hands are tied because he has to clean up after Ivan and the cupboard was bare after they lost the majority of their gun juniors. It doesn't help either that when they do sign a gun up and comer like Matterson, he starts sourcing out bigger deals at other clubs who are a genuine chance of winning a premiership.

 

[MugaB]

I'm having a blonde moment. Who is the second team?

ROOSTERS!!!

 

[MugaB]

that is pretty debateable in the sense that most of Melbourne’s stars have come through their elite jnr development system they have set up in partnerships in queensland. The problem they have is the nrl dont fund the Vic nrl properly so there aren’t the critical mass of kids playing the game in Victoria, or the U16 quality of coaches etc, that you need to take the cream from and turn into first graders. Storm do a cracking job at finding the best 16-18 year olds and turning them into first graders. I don’t see general getting kids playing the game in large numbers and having decent junior clubs as an nrl clubs responsibility. It’s either stage leagues or pokie fed league clubs that should be doing that.

Whats the benefit for the state leagues to do that? If JoBlo comes from a QRL club and Melbourne develop him further, only Melbourne and that player benifit, state leagues isn't there to create players, its a comp.
The NYC is also a comp but representing the NRL clubs, so the owness is on THAT respective club to field that team and hopefully win that comp, and can use those players developed within to promote "within" that club into the 30man squad, as older players move on, or retire...
Leaving this up to every club to decide how they spend their money on recruitment of their cap has lead to the fall of these bottom placed sides, their depth has been tested and failed miserably, where the well run and well cap managed sides are competitive...
Goulds right, the NYC created a stepping stone in player turnover, its still upto the club to turn them into NRL grade talent, but atleast they aren't just thinking about their top 17 anymore, its all about hoarding the best 30man and NYC squad to benefit from down the road