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The Case for Adelaide.....

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8,480
They've had 7 gfs in the past 30 years, thats pretty successful, i wouldn't be righting off the sea eagles... theyve had lean years too, and just last year made the finals and progressed to week 2, on a very underrated roster, with tom turbo injured mind you, lots of people love to hate on them, but its what gives them that uniqueness that each club has, there's is backs against the wall, hated, and underdog, i actually think its a vital club, out of the sydney clubs, and not due to its geography, but thats kept them from any talk of relocation.

In regards to a better stadium area, i would think a mini bankwest style stadium in Northbridge would be easier to get to from the City, North shore and from Warringah. Its more centralised than Brookvale, and means that other sports or clubs maybe able to play there too..... example sydneyFc, NorthsReserves, even Sydney Roosters if moore park fails its rebuild

Not writing them off at all mate - I reckon they are one of the most resilient clubs around, and will be back in the top 8 in the next few years. Just been lean of late in the Barrett years and Des going back to pick up the pieces. They really impressed last year - pound-for-pound one of the best performers.

As for ground - They'd absolutely benefit from a more modern, accessible stadium. But would need a big ROI to build something new, with multiple tenants etc.
 
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8,480
Even when they were in GFs and winning them, their crowds were poor. Their fanbase is small and doesn't extend much past Manly and Warringah. I think their refusal to promote their brand outside of their vicinity when they took over the Northern Eagles' licence in 2003 will come back to haunt them one day.

https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/matches/Custom/MTQtLS0tLTUtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t?page=4&

Some very healthy crowds here in their "good" seasons. I differ in opinion, in that I don't think they need to change their branding - rather re-enforce it in the huge area they represent. The Northern peninsula is vast, while the demographic of North Sydney has changed since the bears were around - much like Balmain has over the decades.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
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70,111
https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/matches/Custom/MTQtLS0tLTUtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t?page=4&

Some very healthy crowds here in their "good" seasons. I differ in opinion, in that I don't think they need to change their branding - rather re-enforce it in the huge area they represent. The Northern peninsula is vast, while the demographic of North Sydney has changed since the bears were around - much like Balmain has over the decades.

manlys crowds are terrible for a heartland team. 1999 aside the rest are bog avg
https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/manly.html
 
Messages
8,480
manlys crowds are terrible for a heartland team. 1999 aside the rest are bog avg
https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/manly.html

2011/12 were great crowds.

And what they are criticised for, must be respected in return..

“Manly fans don’t travel”.. and fans don’t travel to manly. Ie - those numbers are primarily their own fans, not away fans.

They have a fan base, a strong fan base. Like any, success brings fans through the gates.

They are not a club to be relocated. I personally think it’s ridiculous to suggest anything otherwise.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
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70,111
2011/12 were great crowds.

And what they are criticised for, must be respected in return..

“Manly fans don’t travel”.. and fans don’t travel to manly. Ie - those numbers are primarily their own fans, not away fans.

They have a fan base, a strong fan base. Like any, success brings fans through the gates.

They are not a club to be relocated. I personally think it’s ridiculous to suggest anything otherwise.

2011 brookvale avg was 13.1k
2012 13.7k

hardly great! And the problem is success isn’t bringing the fans in in any great numbers.
 
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14,822
2011 brookvale avg was 13.1k
2012 13.7k

hardly great! And the problem is success isn’t bringing the fans in in any great numbers.
My club, the Cowboys, average around 13k when we're at the bottom of the ladder. We've only won one premiership and are robbed by corrupt officiating at least 3 or 5 times a season, costing us games and making it infuriating to watch the game, as we know it's coming and nothing will ever be done about it. Our fans still persevere, even though we know the competition is rigged to favour Brisbane, Melbourne and the largest Sydney clubs.

Manly have been dudded just as much in recent seasons, but their fans are fickle and walk away.

They've won a premiership every decade, have they not?

Their crowds should be around 18,000 when they're winning premierships.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
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70,111
Manly are one of the few clubs who don’t get a big boost in crowds when they are doing well. This would suggest there isnt a large latent fanbase ready to jump on the band wagon. 2014 minor premiers. Season avg 12.6k as an example.
 
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8,480
2011 brookvale avg was 13.1k
2012 13.7k

hardly great! And the problem is success isn’t bringing the fans in in any great numbers.

Some of those games were Monday night, an absolute arse of a time slot for crowds which has since been bulleted for good reason.

Only a handful of those games had 4-figure crowds. And in the most dilapidated ground in the NRL.
 
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8,480
Meanwhile...

images
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,969
Manly are one of the few clubs who don’t get a big boost in crowds when they are doing well. This would suggest there isnt a large latent fanbase ready to jump on the band wagon. 2014 minor premiers. Season avg 12.6k as an example.

That is strange because Manly consistently for years was one of the top drawing clubs in Sydney.

An upgraded stadium and less night games would fix that.
 
Messages
8,480
That is strange because Manly consistently for years was one of the top drawing clubs in Sydney.

An upgraded stadium and less night games would fix that.

Sunday afternoon is their absolute sweet-spot. A lot of clubs will be in the same boat. But access there on a friday night (or monday night in the day) is an absolute shitfight. Of the other regular suburban grounds I'd suggest only Leichhardt would be considered worse.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,960
That is strange because Manly consistently for years was one of the top drawing clubs in Sydney.

An upgraded stadium and less night games would fix that.
Aside from some lipstick on a pig that's never going to happen, so yeah maybe it's time to do what they should have done 20 years ago and started looking for a new home ground that isn't a shithole.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
70,111
That is strange because Manly consistently for years was one of the top drawing clubs in Sydney.

An upgraded stadium and less night games would fix that.

the year they drew under 9k they only had 3 week night games, the rest were Saturday or sunday. An upgraded stadium would certainly help but the limited population in the area they are narrowly representing isn’t going to grow regardless. Adelaide sea Eagles has a good ring then a brand new northern sydney for the club playing somewhere accessible to the whole region would be ideal
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,969
the year they drew under 9k they only had 3 week night games, the rest were Saturday or sunday. An upgraded stadium would certainly help but the limited population in the area they are narrowly representing isn’t going to grow regardless. Adelaide sea Eagles has a good ring then a brand new northern sydney for the club playing somewhere accessible to the whole region would be ideal
Northern Sydney Bears sounds good
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,971
My view on Manly is that if they continue as is, eventually they will fall too far behind to be viable.

Here's the situation.
Eels, Souths, Roosters, Bulldogs are playing out of large, modern facilities. Despite the whinging from the grass hill brigade, they draw more fans on average than suburban grounds. If Parra and Bulldogs are successful, they have potential to average over 20k. Roosters and Souths enjoy strong corporate support on the back of those stadiums, even if the crowds aren't as high. They're guaranteed a couple of 30k+ crowds a year. Sponsorships hold higher value. Facilities are better.

That puts them at an immediate financial advantage to the suburban clubs. And of the suburban clubs, currently Manly sit at the bottom of the pile. #9 in Sydney. Historical success is their only strength, and if they fall further behind financially they might find that difficult to recapture. V'Landys claims that suburban grounds will have their glorious day in the sun again, but I don't believe it. By the time the government comes round to spending hundreds of millions on single tenant council parks, we may find the NRL has a new boss and a new direction. We've heard it all before about Brookvale.

Being the worst-placed of 9 clubs in a city is not a good place to be. It's a big hill to climb every year. What are the options?
In order of least drastic to most...

a) Continue as is.
No significant change of direction.
They maintain their purity and represent their area, but it is hard to see them ever being a serious force again unless the government is swindled into putting $200M into Brookvale and their administration is operating at maximum potential. Falling too far behind for viability in first grade is a risk, especially if the Penns get sick of putting money in.

b) Significant effort to grow the brand.
Launch a takeover of North Sydney's area once and for all. Play 2-3 marquee games a year at the new SFS. Play the NSW Cup team out of Gosford.
This is basically the "administration operating at maximum potential" outcome. They need to shake things up with the NRL, with the Bears, and get some big crowds in a couple of times a year. Basically - become the Roosters. Brookvale still needs a significant upgrade.

c) Northern Eagles: Redux
Relocate first grade team back to Gosford as the Central Coast Sea Eagles. Play NSW Cup out of Brookvale. Promote hard in the Bears territory in between, especially the upper north shore.
You would lose some of the local support but gain more regional support. As a regional city team (Central Coast being one of Australia's largest) you would get more dedicated government and sponsor support, rather than sitting at the bottom of the Sydney pile. The stadium Gosford is a quality facility and with an NRL team full time would have a good chance of future upgrades. Strategically, it would place the club in a stronger geographical position within the NRL, while retaining strong links to northern Sydney. Could even petition for an expansion grant from the NRL.

d) Perth? Adelaide?
Full relocation.
Tbh I don't think the club is a particularly good fit for this option so I won't go on about it. The identity is very tied to the northern beaches, and while Central Coast is a reasonably natural extension, I don't think the club has the brand appeal or the administrative chops to make a success of a cross country leap. And there is value in having a club representing the north-of-sydney region, whether from the Beaches or the Central Coast, so it would be difficult to lose that.


I think... A is likely, unfortunately. B is possible and a good aim to modernise the club. C is the most beneficial for the club and the sport, and has a higher potential ceiling, but is probably too ambitious for a conservative club in a conservative sport.
 

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