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The clean out

Twenty10

Juniors
Messages
1,616
A lot has been said about the potential disaster of losing Brett Morris. And I agree. It's a sickening feeling to think he may play for someone else - let alone the bulldogs.

BUT

As great as he is, the money he is asking at the end of the day is too much. Same with Merrin. These players have been a part of a team that has missed the finals for 3 straight years. I mean they are hardly holding all the cards are they?

Out recruitment when Steve price was in charge was a disaster. I was never a fan of farrel or Beale. Weak recruits in my opinion. The money Beale is on is ridiculous. But today hearing that Beale has been off loaded to the warriors actually made me think we are heading in the right direction. Farrel also gone.
This proves to me that Mary may finally be able to look beyond the person and is making the decisions in the best interest of the club. There are a lot of examples of this... Prior was held on to for far too long. Nathan green is the same. How he was selected over Peter M is beyond me. But Mary obviously (and finally) can see this. I hear dan hunt has been told to leave but has refused. He's now the key to our rebuild. If he refused to go he'll play cutters. If he leaves it's valuable money to recruit properly. Beale hunt and farrel make 1million dollars available. That alone is enough to get some quality forwards.

The stockwell one is interesting. I quote like him. But I do think he probably hasn't shown enough aggression at this stage of his career. Also needs to bulk up. But why should be wait for him?? Let's buy players ready to bring success. Sure some players are worth investing in... Like young dufty for example. But we just need some management that knows how to identify who those players are. We haven't done this well since Bennett. But maybe now with mullholland and Mary we finally have that vision??

I don't want Morris to go, but for 600k it's honestly just a joke.
I think Merrin should probably leave as well. Unless he starts to think realistically about his value. He's hardly established himself as the game breaker or dominant force that a salary of 700-800k suggests. So let's get real. Let's take off the rose coloured glasses. These players we love. But we have not had success with them in the team. How much longer do we wait? How much longer do we allow a handful of long serving players milk the clubs salary cap??

Well on reflection I think the time has come to bite the bullet. A la penrith.
 
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Saintsified

Bench
Messages
3,558
Well I think any player who starts to demand or threaten to leave should be moved on...piss off out of our club BMOZ and Merrin smell like a Robbie Farah situation to me. If they dont respect the coach see ya later.

Mary I dont mind because it seems he isnt afraid to make the hard calls...lets see how things pan out next season but in my opinion no player is bigger than the club, the immortals and Provan werent so who the hell do some of the current crop think they are?
 

Twenty10

Juniors
Messages
1,616
Well I think any player who starts to demand or threaten to leave should be moved on...piss off out of our club BMOZ and Merrin smell like a Robbie Farah situation to me. If they dont respect the coach see ya later.

Mary I dont mind because it seems he isnt afraid to make the hard calls...lets see how things pan out next season but in my opinion no player is bigger than the club, the immortals and Provan werent so who the hell do some of the current crop think they are?

I agree 100%
 

possm

Coach
Messages
15,790
Of course there are always two sides to a story and so, it all depends on which side of the story you believe.

For me I don't have a problem of Morris asking for 500k. Once you apply a long service allowance to his salary, you are looking closer to a cost of about 400k per season. If the Dogs with all their stars can afford 500k, why would not the Dragons outlay 400k for him. I believe Mary has got Morris off-side with his confrontational approach, thus introducing a bad blood element into the negotiations. Doust has said he he has been trying to close negotiations with Morris for several months now; maybe the desire to play with his brother is now the main driving force for him to request a release.

Merrin no doubt has an ego but so do many stars. He has been our best forward for the past 3 years and I imagine he feels he is not being paid accordingly. He would be thinking the Club has hired Dugan, Widdop and Marshall on big coin and now it is his turn. Along with this it seems as though he does not get on with Mary so there again is the tipping point.

It is worthwhile to note that Merrin is a lock because it is his preferred position on the field. Frankly, the teams needs him as a prop giving the team some momentum up front. I suspect Mary wants him to switch to prop and because of salary cap restrictions, does not want to pay him an increase for the 2015 season. So it might just be the case that Merrin moves on as well.

By moving on some of the more experienced and influential players, Mary can more easily assert his authority and influence. This is a natural path to follow for an in-experienced coach with limited man-management skills.

I am convinced that a more experienced coach, who did not have such pressure to prove himself to management and fans, would not find himself in this same positon.
 

FlameThrower

Bench
Messages
3,557
A lot has been said about the potential disaster of losing Brett Morris. And I agree. It's a sickening feeling to think he may play for someone else - let alone the bulldogs.

BUT

As great as he is, the money he is asking at the end of the day is too much. Same with Merrin. These players have been a part of a team that has missed the finals for 3 straight years. I mean they are hardly holding all the cards are they?

Out recruitment when Steve price was in charge was a disaster. I was never a fan of farrel or Beale. Weak recruits in my opinion. The money Beale is on is ridiculous. But today hearing that Beale has been off loaded to the warriors actually made me think we are heading in the right direction. Farrel also gone.
This proves to me that Mary may finally be able to look beyond the person and is making the decisions in the best interest of the club. There are a lot of examples of this... Prior was held on to for far too long. Nathan green is the same. How he was selected over Peter M is beyond me. But Mary obviously (and finally) can see this. I hear dan hunt has been told to leave but has refused. He's now the key to our rebuild. If he refused to go he'll play cutters. If he leaves it's valuable money to recruit properly. Beale hunt and farrel make 1million dollars available. That alone is enough to get some quality forwards.

The stockwell one is interesting. I quote like him. But I do think he probably hasn't shown enough aggression at this stage of his career. Also needs to bulk up. But why should be wait for him?? Let's buy players ready to bring success. Sure some players are worth investing in... Like young dufty for example. But we just need some management that knows how to identify who those players are. We haven't done this well since Bennett. But maybe now with mullholland and Mary we finally have that vision??

I don't want Morris to go, but for 600k it's honestly just a joke.
I think Merrin should probably leave as well. Unless he starts to think realistically about his value. He's hardly established himself as the game breaker or dominant force that a salary of 700-800k suggests. So let's get real. Let's take off the rose coloured glasses. These players we love. But we have not had success with them in the team. How much longer do we wait? How much longer do we allow a handful of long serving players milk the clubs salary cap??

Well on reflection I think the time has come to bite the bullet. A la penrith.

This is all good in theory, but already signing George Rose is not a great idea. He has issues with fitness and attitude. If Toovey, Bellamy and Hasler could not sort him out, what chance are we?
Beale, Farrell, Groat gone. With Morris most likely gone as his absolute silence to shutdown this talk tells me he is gone. Merrin at least is on record stating he wants to stay. I still do t don't know about Harrison and Green if they are gone. I also hear Nightingale is shopped around??? In in all this is a massive shakeup from a Club, who only a year ago had been most active in player market? Which is another can of worms. Let's not forget Williams and Drinkwater...so in summary what right royal cockup this has been...and again we find ourselves starting from scratch next year!,,,,,
 

grouch

First Grade
Messages
8,393
All hype. We had a cleanout over the last 2 years, coinciding with the biggest recruitment drive in the joint venture's history. We're going backwards
 

_Johnsy

Referee
Messages
28,113
All hype. We had a cleanout over the last 2 years, coinciding with the biggest recruitment drive in the joint venture's history. We're going backwards

TBH Grouch I'm happy to suffer and see a step or two backwards as long as there are some massive strides forward in the not too distant future.
 

hewi

Bench
Messages
4,127
Can someone explain to me please at what stage can the club declare that Dan Hunt has a long term injury and won't play again? Does that then mean the NRL give him an insurance payout and he is no longer included under the cap?
 

twinkletoes

Juniors
Messages
996
I'm all for a cleanout for the RIGHT reasons. If we were getting rid of players because of our lack of results over the last 3 years that would be fine. However we seem to be having a cleanout because of salary cap reasons resulting from the desperation of club management and Price to justify the decision to keep him the the coaching position and buy players at whatever cost.

The cleanout we are having currently is releasing good performing players but with noprospect of signing better players to replace them...a recipe for disaster next season
 

TruSaint

Referee
Messages
20,716
Understand the message T10 is trying to portray, but IF ( big if ), all the rumours of players leaving comes to fruition, then there must be a deep underlying at the Club.

One player not getting on for whatever reason leaves... I can live with that.

A large exodus, is a worry. What does that d to the moral of the remaining players? I will use Benji as an example. When he came to the Club, he was quoted as saying ONE of the reasons is that we had one of / if not the best back 3 in the comp. I recall Widdop also praising our backline.

Further, you have need to look at circumstances surrounding some of players assumed leaving.

BEALE - bought as a FB, pays wing for NZ. Not a centre.

FARREL - we really cant judge his potential in the Red V after a handful of games.

Im ok with Hunt, Harrison, Green etc being moved on and hope they get a gig elsewhere.

Happy to be proven wrong, but as this stage our recruitment has lagged well behind our presumed losses.

I am not privy to the internal goings on in the club, but when names like Moz, Mez and Flo are mentioned, something is just not right.

For one, I am not willing to wait an additional 3 years to compete again.
 

TruSaint

Referee
Messages
20,716
I'm all for a cleanout for the RIGHT reasons. If we were getting rid of players because of our lack of results over the last 3 years that would be fine. However we seem to be having a cleanout because of salary cap reasons resulting from the desperation of club management and Price to justify the decision to keep him the the coaching position and buy players at whatever cost.

The cleanout we are having currently is releasing good performing players but with noprospect of signing better players to replace them...a recipe for disaster next season

We were typing simultaneously twinkle lol.
 

Blood Shot Eyes

First Grade
Messages
6,308
Understand the message T10 is trying to portray, but IF ( big if ), all the rumours of players leaving comes to fruition, then there must be a deep underlying at the Club.

One player not getting on for whatever reason leaves... I can live with that.

A large exodus, is a worry. What does that d to the moral of the remaining players? I will use Benji as an example. When he came to the Club, he was quoted as saying ONE of the reasons is that we had one of / if not the best back 3 in the comp. I recall Widdop also praising our backline.

Further, you have need to look at circumstances surrounding some of players assumed leaving.

BEALE - bought as a FB, pays wing for NZ. Not a centre.

FARREL - we really cant judge his potential in the Red V after a handful of games.

Im ok with Hunt, Harrison, Green etc being moved on and hope they get a gig elsewhere.

Happy to be proven wrong, but as this stage our recruitment has lagged well behind our presumed losses.

I am not privy to the internal goings on in the club, but when names like Moz, Mez and Flo are mentioned, something is just not right.

For one, I am not willing to wait an additional 3 years to compete again.

Im not prepared to wait either mate....but if its short term pain for long term gain then I guess we will have to run with it...lets face it theres nothing much you and I can do to stop it
 

TruSaint

Referee
Messages
20,716
Im not prepared to wait either mate....but if its short term pain for long term gain then I guess we will have to run with it...lets face it theres nothing much you and I can do to stop it

I hear you man and agree.
Not too long I hope. Just want to see some good news during the off season to instil some faith, which is dearly lagging at the minute.
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,598
So how many 'clean outs' is that since 2011?

I can only think of one clean out that will bring about change for the better.
 
Messages
17,055
All well and good to want a clean out at what cost the stability at the club is fractured if people like Morris or Merrin want out the question is why.

Every player was happy to support Price when he was in charge happily getting paid to play like utter dogs balls then all of a sudden Price is given the flick Mary comes in and now its oh I don't get along with the coach concidence I think not.

These guys had it far to easy maybe Mary upset the apple cart maybe not if he did maybe its the reality check they needed whatever it may be the asking for money is imo a smoke screen for the simple fact they have been shit have been called on it and haven't liked the response they got.

I'm not syaing i agree or even like Mary in fact I think his appointment is an utter joke but besides that two senior players wanting out if true stinks of arrogance and shows a real lack of respect to every other player.

Its funny I haven't heard a word from Ben Creagh the captain of the team not a peep I wonder how he feels about all this.

If the club moves players on they are asking for trouble either way they have caused the fricition and I don't think they have any idea how to fix it.
 

TruSaint

Referee
Messages
20,716
I was thinking of my garage. It's really got of hand.

I'd like to be a fly on the wall during your clean-out and see what goes and what stays. lol.

Are you the sole judge, jury and executioner in these matter W, or is there a board (family) to contend with?
 

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