The Comic Book Film Thread *** SPOILERS ***

[bileduct]

This day by day analysis of box office receipts is getting ridiculous. There was an article the other day talking about the "concerning drop" of Suicide Squad ticket sales on Saturday, but a few days later suddenly it's the highest grossing opening weekend in August.

I'm pretty much treating any and all articles about comic book movies as clickbait bullshit in future.

 

[Eelementary]

Just saw Suicide Squad.

Liked it... but LOVED Leto's Joker even more. Better than Ledger despite being a minor player. Imagine how good a standalone Batfleck movie would be with Leto as the antagonist!

Really?

I hated Leto's Joker.

And the relationship between Quinn and Joker was not right in the film.

I enjoyed it more than I thought I would, but it was still a bog average film.

 

[shiznit]

I wonder if WB need to pay a shitload of money and entice Nolan back...

Sure TDKR probably dropped off a little compared to BB & TDK....

But I really enjoyed that trilogy... And to me.,. They just seemed light years better than MoS, BvS and now SS.

I like a lot of what Snyder does... And David Ayer I thought was a great person to helm SS... But I don't know... It's almost as if there's a direction or maybe even a tone that these WB/DC movies seem to go in that seems weirdly unorganised... Which sounds strange... Considering these are films made with hundreds of millions of dollars so everything is pre-planned and organised.

I just think there's something missing somewhere...

Without making this a Marvel vs DC argument...

Marvel/Disney seem to have a clearer direction they are going in and they seem to bring in talent both infront of and behind the camera who suit what direction they want to go in.

Maybe it's just a perception thing but Marvel seem like a well oiled machine whereas DC/WB seem to be going through reshoots or editing etc...

I've heard some Marvel fans come out and say it's because of Disney and the fact that they don't interfere... But that's a load of horseshit.. Because we are seeing Disney doing all sorts of shit with Star Wars Rogue One... So I just think maybe they need a guy like Nolan who perhaps can have a vision for what he wants... And can tell whoever higher up to go f**k themselves and produce something with no compromises...

 

[Eelementary]

I wonder if WB need to pay a shitload of money and entice Nolan back...

Sure TDKR probably dropped off a little compared to BB & TDK....

But I really enjoyed that trilogy... And to me.,. They just seemed light years better than MoS, BvS and now SS.

I like a lot of what Snyder does... And David Ayer I thought was a great person to helm SS... But I don't know... It's almost as if there's a direction or maybe even a tone that these WB/DC movies seem to go in that seems weirdly unorganised... Which sounds strange... Considering these are films made with hundreds of millions of dollars so everything is pre-planned and organised.

I just think there's something missing somewhere...

Without making this a Marvel vs DC argument...

Marvel/Disney seem to have a clearer direction they are going in and they seem to bring in talent both infront of and behind the camera who suit what direction they want to go in.

Maybe it's just a perception thing but Marvel seem like a well oiled machine whereas DC/WB seem to be going through reshoots or editing etc...

I've heard some Marvel fans come out and say it's because of Disney and the fact that they don't interfere... But that's a load of horseshit.. Because we are seeing Disney doing all sorts of shit with Star Wars Rogue One... So I just think maybe they need a guy like Nolan who perhaps can have a vision for what he wants... And can tell whoever higher up to go f**k themselves and produce something with no compromises...

Imo, it boils down to one simple statement:

Marvel is making comic book movies for comic book fans easily accessible by non fabs; DC is making movies for non fans (primarily).

I mean, come on - they didn't bother fleshing out any character other than Quinn and Lawton.

They totally destroyed Doomsday on DOJ by ignoring his creation, which is crucial to his character arc in the comics...

It was too hard for them to acknowledge why Doomsday is such a big deal, but they had to throw him in to appease comic fans - but they screwed it up.

 

[Caped Crusader]

To be fair, Marvel did a similar thing to the Mandarin in IM3. Tried to be clever and totally f**ked up what was supposed to be a badass character

I honestly think the studios try to do too much all in one movie and it gets too messy.

 

[Game_Breaker]

I wonder if WB need to pay a shitload of money and entice Nolan back...

Sure TDKR probably dropped off a little compared to BB & TDK....

But I really enjoyed that trilogy... And to me.,. They just seemed light years better than MoS, BvS and now SS.

I like a lot of what Snyder does... And David Ayer I thought was a great person to helm SS... But I don't know... It's almost as if there's a direction or maybe even a tone that these WB/DC movies seem to go in that seems weirdly unorganised... Which sounds strange... Considering these are films made with hundreds of millions of dollars so everything is pre-planned and organised.

I just think there's something missing somewhere...

Without making this a Marvel vs DC argument...

Marvel/Disney seem to have a clearer direction they are going in and they seem to bring in talent both infront of and behind the camera who suit what direction they want to go in.

Maybe it's just a perception thing but Marvel seem like a well oiled machine whereas DC/WB seem to be going through reshoots or editing etc...

I've heard some Marvel fans come out and say it's because of Disney and the fact that they don't interfere... But that's a load of horseshit.. Because we are seeing Disney doing all sorts of shit with Star Wars Rogue One... So I just think maybe they need a guy like Nolan who perhaps can have a vision for what he wants... And can tell whoever higher up to go f**k themselves and produce something with no compromises...

Nolan had the balls and power to tell the studio to f**k off when they interfered with his films, but I don't think that's all of it.
The editing and story telling seems to be way off and rushed. Suicide Squad for example wanted us to think they were all family at the end. Why?
There were hardly enough scenes to show us all the characters bonded like that. They wanted to get to that plot point of being family, but not spend the time in character building

 

[bileduct]

Marvel was in the fortunate position of being able to launch a film franchise based on characters that have (mostly) never appeared on film before and at a time that comic book movies had been revitalised by Fox and Sony after long being the domain of DC/Warner Brothers. None of these characters have had to live up to expectations set by previous incarnations.

For me the problem with DC is Batman and the problems moving forward with a shared DC universe on the heels of Nolan's trilogy which was never intended to be part of one. In my lifetime I've seen six different people take on the role in theatrical releases and it was always going to be a struggle to get your average punter interested in Ben Affleck no matter how well he played it. Another Batman solo movie reboot would have had just as much appeal as yet another Spiderman one (which is why he was shoehorned into a Captain America film.)

DC are years behind in developing their own shared universe and Snyder seems to be targeting an older audience than the low bar set by Marvel. From all accounts (and judging by the BvS ultimate cut) studio interference seems to be playing a role into trying to make these new movies appeal to wider markets which is a shame. The first two Tim Burton Batman movies were brilliant at the time but look what happened when Joel Schumacher took over and turned the franchise into a farce.

 

[natheel]

I think with Letos Joker they have got the concept right but I don't think Leto did a great job. Just came across as a white gangster who is trying to be edgy (the way he was dressed) but his personality was good (just an insane mental nut job)

 

[Zoidberg]

I compare BvS to Iron Man 2, trying to fit too much into a single movie and set up a shared universe.
I enjoyed Suicide Squad but I think they panicked too much at the BvS reaction and changed too much from its original cut. I still have hope these movies will get better as they go on.

 

[umina panther]

Nolan is the best film maker in the world atm and as a massive fan boi of his I hope he stays well away from superhero movies. The genre is out of control and honestly boring at this point.

 

[bileduct]

They totally destroyed Doomsday on DOJ by ignoring his creation, which is crucial to his character arc in the comics...

Say what?

The Death of Superman was one of the very few times I took an interest in what DC was doing while I was collecting comics and I don't recall them giving him an origin story at all at the time. He was just a monster that smashed through the city and f**ked up Superman.

Doomsday was given more of an origin story in the movie than what readers were given at the time.

 

[Eelementary]

Say what?

The Death of Superman was one of the very few times I took an interest in what DC was doing while I was collecting comics and I don't recall them giving him an origin story at all at the time. He was just a monster that smashed through the city and f**ked up Superman.

Doomsday was given more of an origin story in the movie than what readers were given at the time.

You don't recall Bertron and his accelerated evolution experiments which led to Doomsday'so creation?

That's a very important part of the character.

He wasn't just created by Lex Luthor in a couple of days.

True, this story arc was a retcon, but it was still available by the time the film came out, and does a better job of explaining Doomsday than DOJ did.

 

[bileduct]

True, this story arc was a retcon, but it was still available by the time the film came out, and does a better job of explaining Doomsday than DOJ did.

Yes, it was a retcon which was precisely my point.

Doomsday had no origin story when he killed Superman. They literally created a character having no background with the sole intent of killing off Superman so they could reboot all his comic book lines.

They used him in exactly the same way in BvS, only Luthor's actions appear to have set other events in motion.

 

[Game_Breaker]

No origin story for Doomsday is still better than the zombie Zod crap they pulled in BvS

Even Nuclear Mans origin in superman 4 was better

 

[Eelementary]

Yes, it was a retcon which was precisely my point.

Doomsday had no origin story when he killed Superman. They literally created a character having no background with the sole intent of killing off Superman so they could reboot all his comic book lines.

They used him in exactly the same way in BvS, only Luthor's actions appear to have set other events in motion.

I forgot that in my first post. I apologise.

I had the "origin story" stuck in my head, and I totally forgot that Doomsdayou technically had none initially.

I reckon the retcon is crucial, though, as it helps explain precisely why Doomsday is so dangerous.

But yeah - my bad. I had a brain fart moment.

Incidentally, I re-watched DOJ a couple of days ago, and didn't hate it as much as the first time I watched it.

 

[Eelementary]

No origin story for Doomsday is still better than the zombie Zod crap they pulled in BvS

Even Nuclear Mans origin in superman 4 was better

I guess that's way irked me most - from a storyline arc, to me at least, what Luthor did with Zod's remains wouldn't explain why Doomsday is so dangerous.

But I did enjoy seeing him on the big screen.

 

[Caped Crusader]

I still can't work out why killing Superman was required at all

Batman had proven he was beatable hence lowering his invincibility perception.

It seemed pretty unnecessary

 

[Eelementary]

I still can't work out why killing Superman was required at all

Batman had proven he was beatable hence lowering his invincibility perception.

It seemed pretty unnecessary

That's a great point, too.

Did the introduction of Doomsday serve the story? I say it's debatable...

They could have just left it at Superman and Batman squaring off, then turning their combined focus on Luthor.

Perhaps Doomsday was supposed to be a plan B, in case Bats and Supes failed to mutually destroy each other - but it certainly wasn't fleshed out too well.

 

[Game_Breaker]

Having Batman trying to form the JL is a story itself. He'll struggle to do it on his own. If supes was with him then the recruiting will be too easy

That's the only reason I can think to have superman "dead" for now, and doomsday is the only villain the audience can accept who can do that

 

[Last Week]

Just saw Suicide Squad and I enjoyed it.

Didn't particularly like the Leto Joker but I did want to see more of him.

Killer Croc! Man, talk more! Katana annoyed me, and Rick Flagg was a dick, but I get it. I liked the rest. I also liked the way Batman and Flash had their little cameos too. Marked out a little at Flash.

Enchantress was ok. Her voice annoyed me, and part of me wished her character was a bit more relaxed and not so seriously mythical, if that makes sense.

DC took a risk with this movie and I think it's worked out well. Not aswell as it could potentially have been, but that's natural when they created the measuring sick, being The Dark Knight.