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The Comic Book Film Thread *** SPOILERS ***

18to87

Coach
Messages
10,061
Agree (from a few pages back) that it was really lame how Batman and Superman became "friends". I mean Batman is about to kill Superman then one minute later they are BFF's. Other than that it was a good bit of fun IMO.
 

Game_Breaker

Coach
Messages
15,027
Agree (from a few pages back) that it was really lame how Batman and Superman became "friends". I mean Batman is about to kill Superman then one minute later they are BFF's. Other than that it was a good bit of fun IMO.


Lol yeah. Lets say we accept he believes superman is a threat to humanity. He was seconds away from killing him but lets him go because their mothers have the same name

Also, what's with everyone knowing everyone secret identity?
 

Frederick

Moderator
Staff member
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27,636

LatK7

First Grade
Messages
6,261
I enjoyed the movie, thought it was fun.

I watched a review online saying that every scene is beautiful, but they don't flow or make sense, I would have to agree with this.

I loved the Bruce perspective of Superman vs Zod. Batman and Alfred were awesome. I liked what Cavill was able to do with what was asked of him.

Didn't like the Justice League stuff, they could have done that much much better. The dream sequences didn't make sense. Was very odd watching batman shoot people.

And I didn't like Doomsday, he was a rushed baddy to cause destruction.

http://nonsensicalramblings.com/thi...-v-superman-the-theory-of-a-waking-knightmare

It does make sense...but it's not easy for the non-die hards to pick up on everything. I've read a few of the books, but had to go looking for answers. I reckon when people look back on this after the stand alone DCU films it'll all make a lot more sense.

As for the part about Batman suddenly changing his mind, I felt the same way while watching it. In retrospect though, I feel he just humanised Superman and remembered why he started fighting in the first place...to stop deaths like Martha's.
 

Last Week

Bench
Messages
3,726
As for the part about Batman suddenly changing his mind, I felt the same way while watching it. In retrospect though, I feel he just humanised Superman and remembered why he started fighting in the first place...to stop deaths like Martha's.

I thought it was good too. It made both characters more relatable, especially Superman. He was vulnerable because his mother was in danger, like most would be. Having it be their mothers that brings them together is a good deep storyline.

What else would you have done to stop Batman from killing Superman? Mid fight, Batman realises that Superman is innocent and stops?

And I don't think it was just that their mothers share the same name. I dare say Bruce saw that Superman was being selfless. And Alfred also told Bruce that he was wrong about Superman. The doubt about how bad Bruce thought Superman was was always there. He was never sure.
 

Last Week

Bench
Messages
3,726
Here's my take on the movie. And I enjoyed it. But I also know that Warner Bros are still very cautious when it comes to taking risks on movies. This goes back to the Tim Burton Superman Lives production that never took off. This, like MoS was a cash grab first and foremost.

This movie was a bit all over the shop because they were trying to do alot. Like developing Bruce/Batman alot, developing Lex, trying to show Supermans current view in the world after MoS, showing the importance and origin of Kryptonite and linking all that back to MoS. And on top of all that, they also had to properly explain why Batman and Superman were fighting (which I think they did well). They also had to fit Wonder Woman in there which wasn't necessary.

Here's my changes to it.

*Instead of Wayne Tower being destroyed by the fight with Zod, have it as a Lex Corp building. Make it personal for Lex to hate Kryptonians/Superman. Rather than him being seemingly mentally ill. (recast Lex as a Rupert Murdoch type character. Someone old who is powerful, manipulative and hated unanimously)
*No need for Wonder Woman at all. Give the movie more energy to the relevant story line.
*Lex shouldn't have manipulated Bruce, nor even know who he is. I liked that Lex essentially armed Batman with Kryptonite and pulled the strings around the world, framing Superman as being a killer. That's the only reason Batman needs for trying to take down someone seemingly evil. Batman is a hero after all.
*No need for Doomsday. I get they did it because they needed a climax for the movie, but the climax could have been Superman being beaten by Batman like in the DKR comics, but not killed. I envisaged a similar sort of ending as to Return of the Jedi. After Batman beats Superman, Lex tries to kill Superman and Batman stops him, but doesn't kill Lex.
*The climax to this story is difficult for me to fathom right now. Because the DKR comics allowed for there to be sort of no winner and have a positive ending. People want to know when a movie is over, either by an explosion (death star) or a bad guy dying (Zod).

The Doomsday/Death of Superman story could have, and should have been left for its own movie. They could have kept it exactly the same as this with Lex reviving Zod as Doomsday, Clark and Lois marrying, both of Superman and Doomsday being nuked, Superman dying, Supermans funeral (hell, have cameos of the Justice League at the funeral), and end it with the same final scene. There's lots they could throw in there as filler too, like Lex going for President, showing he's changed, having the public not trust him because Superman doesn't trust Lex. This could have also been the movie to make audiences really love Superman, before killing him.

This isn't indicative of DC or Warner Bros solely. This is Hollywood trying to make money by throwing everything at the screen. The priority isn't telling good stories now, it's about making movies into events that MUST be seen at theatres, not downloaded.
 
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vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,625
Also, what's with everyone knowing everyone secret identity?

This was weird.

Clark picking up Bruce's identity was *at a stretch* possible because he listened in to Alfred guiding Bruce Wayne at the party. Bruce knowing who Clark was, and especially Lex knowing who both of them are, is utterly ridiculous.

Not a plot hole, more lazy writing.

Here's a plot hole, if Superman could pick up Lois was in danger on some remote desert, how did he completely miss his mother's kidnapping?
 

vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,625
*Instead of Wayne Tower being destroyed by the fight with Zod, have it as a Lex Corp building. Make it personal for Lex to hate Kryptonians/Superman. Rather than him being seemingly mentally ill. (recast Lex as a Rupert Murdoch type character. Someone old who is powerful, manipulative and hated unanimously)
*No need for Wonder Woman at all. Give the movie more energy to the relevant story line.
*Lex shouldn't have manipulated Bruce, nor even know who he is. I liked that Lex essentially armed Batman with Kryptonite and pulled the strings around the world, framing Superman as being a killer. That's the only reason Batman needs for trying to take down someone seemingly evil. Batman is a hero after all.
*No need for Doomsday. I get they did it because they needed a climax for the movie, but the climax could have been Superman being beaten by Batman like in the DKR comics, but not killed. I envisaged a similar sort of ending as to Return of the Jedi. After Batman beats Superman, Lex tries to kill Superman and Batman stops him, but doesn't kill Lex.
*The climax to this story is difficult for me to fathom right now. Because the DKR comics allowed for there to be sort of no winner and have a positive ending. People want to know when a movie is over, either by an explosion (death star) or a bad guy dying (Zod).

The Doomsday/Death of Superman story could have, and should have been left for its own movie. They could have kept it exactly the same as this with Lex reviving Zod as Doomsday, Clark and Lois marrying, both of Superman and Doomsday being nuked, Superman dying, Supermans funeral (hell, have cameos of the Justice League at the funeral), and end it with the same final scene. There's lots they could throw in there as filler too, like Lex going for President, showing he's changed, having the public not trust him because Superman doesn't trust Lex. This could have also been the movie to make audiences really love Superman, before killing him.

Pretty good, especially agree that Death of Superman should have been the next movie.

One point I'd add is the complete lack of Clark Kent, the persona. I mean sure he was there, but where is the bumbling awkwardly likeable Clark we all know and love? He is *crucial* to anything involving Superman. This version just moped around looking bored.

There is so much wrong with the characterisation everywhere, there is just no convincing motivation or relationship with any of the characters.
- Why does Lex hate Superman? Hates aliens? But then he creates an alien monstrosity and 'sends out a signal' to the universe.
- Why does Batman hate Superman (they tried here, but still not totally convincing. Batman was pretty casual about his own collateral damage and even flat out murdered people. I liked the "we can't control a god" angle.)
- Why did Batman switch? ("Martha"... weak. Say her name was Sally, then what)
- Why did Wonder Woman stage a comeback after a century of hiding?
- Why is Lex looking out for meta-humans?
- Why does Batman suddenly give a crap about meta-humans? ("just a feeling"... geez)
- Why are Lois and Clark smitten over each other?
- Does society hate Superman? Apparently, but he got one hell of a funeral.
- Does society hate Batman?
- Where does Lex stand in the real world? He just comes off as a nut job, how is he able to pull strings so easily? Money talks?
- ... etc

Compare to the Dark Knight, where it was pretty damn clear what everyone thought of each other. This builds consequence to things that happen to the characters. I reacted to Superman's death with pretty much nothing.
 
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Parra Pride

Referee
Messages
20,441
Here's a plot hole, if Superman could pick up Lois was in danger on some remote desert, how did he completely miss his mother's kidnapping?

Superman doesn't want to bang his mum?

Making a ton of money is one thing, setting box office records is another

It's a massive event movie, Batman and Superman coming together for the first time on film is always going to draw stupid money, The Avengers was the exact same deal. The big difference of course being that Marvel knows how to handle their shit well, and DC just blow their load by chucking all of their shit into one movie. Imagine if instead of giving us the first Iron Man movie, they just dropped the Avengers and Thanos on top of us after The Incredible Hulk? It would've been a rushed mess like Dawn of Justice.
 
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Game_Breaker

Coach
Messages
15,027
One point I'd add is the complete lack of Clark Kent, the persona. I mean sure he was there, but where is the bumbling awkwardly likeable Clark we all know and love? He is *crucial* to anything involving Superman. This version just moped around looking bored.

Cavill did an interview about this point, and he said the version of Clark you're describing is more the Christopher Reeve/Richard Donner mould.

The comics and animated series version of Clark shows him to have a bit more confidence
 

Last Week

Bench
Messages
3,726
Cavill did an interview about this point, and he said the version of Clark you're describing is more the Christopher Reeve/Richard Donner mould.

The comics and animated series version of Clark shows him to have a bit more confidence

Yeah this is true. Read most comics with Clark in it and he's not bumbling or clumsy. The contrast is nice between the two but really has no place in this universe.

Should read the Superman Earth One comics. Clark dates a prostitute!
 
Messages
15,565
I saw Batman v Superman yesterday. I enjoyed it, but yes it has issues.

One in particular is Batman. He spends much of the early part of the movie trying to track down the "White Portugese" whos is behind some darstardly stuff. However, once he find out it is a ship owned by Lex Luthor, and what it is carrying, he forgets all that and worries about stealing the kryptonite.

Batman never sees he is being manipulated by Lex Luthor - I could not swallow that at all as it is just too much of a credibility gap there. Batman is the paranoid "prepare for any eventuality" type, but to just forget/ignore things like he does? Sorry it just does not gibe with his known character traits and his intellect.

Also Jesse Eissenberg's Lex Luthor. Did they give the character a charisma bypass?! As someone that dweebish and nerdish has no credibility as Lex. Luthor is the smart one with oodles of charisma which carries him thru. I could not imagine how this Lex would get to the position he did as he would have zero confidence in the business world based on how he acted in the film.
 
Messages
15,565
Yeah this is true. Read most comics with Clark in it and he's not bumbling or clumsy. The contrast is nice between the two but really has no place in this universe.

Yep, the "bumbly" Clark Kent persona was kicked to the kerb for good in 1986 in the comics.

That said if you look back throughout Superman's history, it was only for a period of the 1970s to mid-1980s where Clark was the "bumbly, milksop" persona.
 

PJ

First Grade
Messages
6,060
B vs S. I really enjoyed it.

Could have been better without the dream sequences, and a better resolution to the Batman and Superman fight, but overall pretty good.

Wonder Woman should have tits as well.

Definitely doesn't deserve the trashing it is getting in reviews.
 
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Messages
14,792
Jesse Eisenberg is the modern interpretation of CEO - a la Zuckerberg.

They're geniuses, on the spectrum, with gazillions of dollars.

Ironic Eisenberg aped Zuckerberg for Lex. Or just mailed in the same performance?

As for Batfleck...I really liked it. Would have been cool to do a Batman movie with Affleck, of the MOS story/conclusion from his POV and how he detests Superman for the destruction and god complex, etc as well as being manipulated by Lex. They duke it out, realise they've been played with and come together. Still even intro WW. End movie on a cliff hanger. No abomination, but the wheels are in motion.

Go to WW next. A beefier Superman story. Then the lesser - Flash, GL, Cyborg, Aquaman, then a JL pic.

Just my opinion.

Will be interesting to see the 45 minutes of extra film on the blu ray though. They might flash it out.
 
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