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The end of the road for 2013?

Old_Timer

Juniors
Messages
1,927
Chin up Elias, friday's match against the Dogs might ignite our 2013 season.

Even a player previously mentioned in dispatches, might be prepared for some doggy aggression.
 

karuah6

Juniors
Messages
442
Nice to see you back again Karuah. Trust you are keeping well.

Karuah, I have no problem with our troops, well none that I would seek to publicly admonish. Most members on here know where my critique is. Initials SP may spring to mind.:oops:

You should be a politician with the answers you give. Some people on here state that Price should drop players that do not perform or carry out the game plan including yourself. Yes OT there is a game plan, always have been even if you say there isn't
I do not remember in any of your posts that you have recommended any alternative selections that Price should make & I was just interested as properly other poster's are, to ascertain what team you consider should be selected.
If you are happy with the the team Price selects, I am at a loss to understand where you are coming from.
Surely you don't believe the club would allow an appointed coach to run the team without a game plan.
Maybe the players need to adhere to the plan, they might start winning a few games.
I am not happy with our halves & have previously put forward my suggestions
Maybe you could come clean & tell us what you consider the team should be.
We are all waiting, but I bet it never comes.
 

Elias1983

Coach
Messages
13,224
Chin up Elias, friday's match against the Dogs might ignite our 2013 season.

Even a player previously mentioned in dispatches, might be prepared for some doggy aggression.

Interested to see how much we will be paying for a win this week....

Then again we have morris and merrin missing.

Can work two ways:

1, The rest of the team lift to cover for the two losses and put in a good performance, or;

2, We get absolutely hammered
 

Old_Timer

Juniors
Messages
1,927
Chin up Elias, friday's match against the Dogs might ignite our 2013 season.

Even a player previously mentioned in dispatches, might be prepared for some doggy aggression. :roll:
 
Messages
11,737
There is a gameplan though, the players refuse to follow it, and that to me shows that they are not buying in to what Price wants to do.. the exact reason I dont know but if he hasnt got the balls to do anything about it, it falls back on him, Price has to get them playing his game or he needs to get out of the way and let someone else coach.

Ppl cant keep blaming the roster blindly, yes there are some weeks where we tried hard and just didnt have the talent, but were perfectly capable of playing far better football against these bottom sides, and its not happening.

This is more where I'm coming from.
But I don't blame the roster blindly, neither do I choose to blindly blame the coach.
I think its more a matter of not having had many other viable alternatives thus far, rather than Price not having the kahunas to drop someone. As the season goes on he will have more options, with players getting more experience in the Cutters putting themselves in the picture for a call-up.
 
Last edited:

Old_Timer

Juniors
Messages
1,927
.....I do not remember in any of your posts that you have recommended any alternative selections that Price should make ......Surely you don't believe the club would allow an appointed coach to run the team without a game plan....
.

The Former;
I think it prudent to confine my comments to those of a non de script general nature. Specifics should be confined to those qualified to do so.:shock:

The Latter;
He submits one?;-)
 

karuah6

Juniors
Messages
442
You of course may well think that Karuah. I of course, could not possibly comment. ;-)

Didn't think you would be prepared to put forward your team selections. Same as I don't think you are very old.
As an old bloke on this forum, & seeing a lot of Dragons games before the 11years in a row & beyond, while I don't like the position of the team, I will not put all blame on coaches.
Have a look at the way some of our players are performing & I am sure a lot of supporters would like a change in certain positions. My problem have we at this stage got the players to do better than the players that should be dropped. I am not sure but next year you can see the club is trying to rectify this problem by the names of some of the new purchasers.
There is always a lot of expectations from Dragon fans, & so there should be, & living in the Shire I cop a lot of rubbish.
Doesn't matter, I am, we are better than that & will continue to be so. Some times things happen & we can't be the best every year.
We were for 11 & what I saw I will never forget.
A proud RedV oldie who still enjoys watching our team even when we have some lean years.
 

gypsy

Bench
Messages
4,248
gypsy, I feel uplifted after reading your sublime words. Do we have a timeframe?

These things take time OT, somewhere around 8 years probably.
In all honesty I was just throwing some bait out there, alas they weren't biting today.
 
Messages
1,564
You should be a politician with the answers you give. Some people on here state that Price should drop players that do not perform or carry out the game plan including yourself. Yes OT there is a game plan, always have been even if you say there isn't
I do not remember in any of your posts that you have recommended any alternative selections that Price should make & I was just interested as properly other poster's are, to ascertain what team you consider should be selected.
If you are happy with the the team Price selects, I am at a loss to understand where you are coming from.
Surely you don't believe the club would allow an appointed coach to run the team without a game plan.
Maybe the players need to adhere to the plan, they might start winning a few games.
I am not happy with our halves & have previously put forward my suggestions
Maybe you could come clean & tell us what you consider the team should be.
We are all waiting, but I bet it never comes.

Hello Karuah - I think the problems lie squarely with Steve Price, or moreso those who employed him.

The discipline needed to carry out the game-plan is gone in every aspect of their game. This is assuming there is a game-plan and/or it's a good one. I have my doubts here too.

Throughout his short tenure, rather than taking to team building, seems to me Steve Price has taken a short term approach, trying to win the next game week in week out. In doing so he has stuck to the same formula with little success except against weak opposition on the day. And repeatedly he claims after each loss, "we are a better team then that; we'll get it right for next week" ...just waiting for something to 'click'. This is no longer so. As has been pointed out - this IS our style of footy nowadays.

The short term approach by Steve Price may not be all his fault, reacting in a way most would, to a short term contract, hoping to get another one based mostly on wins. (lucky for him he jagged 3 in a row).

But the time to experiment was way back when he first got the gig - we were already losing more games then winning, and expectations were low as (post Bennet) the incumbent coach was 'on a hiding to nothing', or so was the concensus.

Instead Steve Price is now paying the price for his lack of vision, creativity and ideas, and in the absence of marquee signings, not giving young talent a go earlier - instead rigidly sticking to the same players. His assessment of games was unrealistic at best, and at worst he was effectively lying to himself and the team. That was his "fake it 'till you make it" talk thawing out in the sun. It's gone completely off now.

My real disgust however is he frequently applauded mediocre performances through the course of most of last year. Instead of consequences for player's poor performances, (calling a spade a spade will do) time and time again the team was left feeling that all was ok because they 'had a dig' and so the coach was proud. As a consequence the standards of play shown on the field have continued on a downward slide. Having a dig is a given in every game ...like putting on boots and a red and white jersey when taking the field.

And when he did make changes, they were sometimes bizarre, eg. leaving one side of the backline distinctly weak in defence, and continue to be so today e.g. Nightingale in some quasi 5-8 / centre role over the weekend. Our best player throughout all of these difficult times was so out of sorts with it.. How is that one explained?

I do not buy the "we don't have the cattle" line. It's a coach's job first up to instruct players and instill discipline, motivate and mentally prepare them as the means to develop them and bring out their best - with whom he has got! Geoff Toovey is a great example of that, and now too Ivan Cleary. On paper, his team is far less than ours is.

Steve Price is now struggling with his own earned reputation.

Sadly, he does not come across as a strong character let alone a strong leader, and he certainly is unable to mentally prepare players and command respect. If he had the footy brains and strategy then that may compensate, but really, I don't think he has that either. He is a top bloke for sure, resilient and unquestionably he tries his best.

Mentally however, our team is very soft. No team fears us at all anymore - not even playing in our heartland. They frequently admit that the opposition takes to the field with more intent then they do, worse still, as soon as something goes against them, bad ref's calls, injury, bad luck etc. Dragon's discipline falls in a heap with drop ball, forward passes from dummy half, penalties, defensive lapses, kicks out on the full - the list goes on. And there is no leadership or control taken by any player on the field - Ben Creagh tries hard, great player, big héart, top bloke. But he's also a softie.

Where do you think they all get it from?

Please don't accuse me of being negative. I think this is realistic. Welcome the Pro-Price people to point out where he has added value to the team, or where, through his influence, hope lies.
 

Gomarchin

Juniors
Messages
1,913
Hello Karuah - I think the problems lie squarely with Steve Price, or moreso those who employed him.

The discipline needed to carry out the game-plan is gone in every aspect of their game. This is assuming there is a game-plan and/or it's a good one. I have my doubts here too.

Throughout his short tenure, rather than taking to team building, seems to me Steve Price has taken a short term approach, trying to win the next game week in week out. In doing so he has stuck to the same formula with little success except against weak opposition on the day. And repeatedly he claims after each loss, "we are a better team then that; we'll get it right for next week" ...just waiting for something to 'click'. This is no longer so. As has been pointed out - this IS our style of footy nowadays.

The short term approach by Steve Price may not be all his fault, reacting in a way most would, to a short term contract, hoping to get another one based mostly on wins. (lucky for him he jagged 3 in a row).

But the time to experiment was way back when he first got the gig - we were already losing more games then winning, and expectations were low as (post Bennet) the incumbent coach was 'on a hiding to nothing', or so was the concensus.

Instead Steve Price is now paying the price for his lack of vision, creativity and ideas, and in the absence of marquee signings, not giving young talent a go earlier - instead rigidly sticking to the same players. His assessment of games was unrealistic at best, and at worst he was effectively lying to himself and the team. That was his "fake it 'till you make it" talk thawing out in the sun. It's gone completely off now.

My real disgust however is he frequently applauded mediocre performances through the course of most of last year. Instead of consequences for player's poor performances, (calling a spade a spade will do) time and time again the team was left feeling that all was ok because they 'had a dig' and so the coach was proud. As a consequence the standards of play shown on the field have continued on a downward slide. Having a dig is a given in every game ...like putting on boots and a red and white jersey when taking the field.

And when he did make changes, they were sometimes bizarre, eg. leaving one side of the backline distinctly weak in defence, and continue to be so today e.g. Nightingale in some quasi 5-8 / centre role over the weekend. Our best player throughout all of these difficult times was so out of sorts with it.. How is that one explained?

I do not buy the "we don't have the cattle" line. It's a coach's job first up to instruct players and instill discipline, motivate and mentally prepare them as the means to develop them and bring out their best - with whom he has got! Geoff Toovey is a great example of that, and now too Ivan Cleary. On paper, his team is far less than ours is.

Steve Price is now struggling with his own earned reputation.

Sadly, he does not come across as a strong character let alone a strong leader, and he certainly is unable to mentally prepare players and command respect. If he had the footy brains and strategy then that may compensate, but really, I don't think he has that either. He is a top bloke for sure, resilient and unquestionably he tries his best.

Mentally however, our team is very soft. No team fears us at all anymore - not even playing in our heartland. They frequently admit that the opposition takes to the field with more intent then they do, worse still, as soon as something goes against them, bad ref's calls, injury, bad luck etc. Dragon's discipline falls in a heap with drop ball, forward passes from dummy half, penalties, defensive lapses, kicks out on the full - the list goes on. And there is no leadership or control taken by any player on the field - Ben Creagh tries hard, great player, big héart, top bloke. But he's also a softie.

Where do you think they all get it from?

Please don't accuse me of being negative. I think this is realistic. Welcome the Pro-Price people to point out where he has added value to the team, or where, through his influence, hope lies.

We need a clean out and it starts from the top with Doust. The fish rots from the head and I'm afraid it's time for a new CEO, recruitment manager and coach.
 

dragonv

Juniors
Messages
501
I am appalled that even the Dragons official website has a splattering of Origin material and barely a mention of the match that happens next and is of paramount importance to the Dragons fans i.e. Friday night. It just typifies the 'meh' attitude and beat around the bush style of management the coach and CEO have showed in the lead up to the season and beyond. You can be certain it is the end of the road for 2013.
 

beecww

Juniors
Messages
84
Hello Karuah - I think the problems lie squarely with Steve Price, or moreso those who employed him.

The discipline needed to carry out the game-plan is gone in every aspect of their game. This is assuming there is a game-plan and/or it's a good one. I have my doubts here too.

Throughout his short tenure, rather than taking to team building, seems to me Steve Price has taken a short term approach, trying to win the next game week in week out. In doing so he has stuck to the same formula with little success except against weak opposition on the day. And repeatedly he claims after each loss, "we are a better team then that; we'll get it right for next week" ...just waiting for something to 'click'. This is no longer so. As has been pointed out - this IS our style of footy nowadays.

The short term approach by Steve Price may not be all his fault, reacting in a way most would, to a short term contract, hoping to get another one based mostly on wins. (lucky for him he jagged 3 in a row).

But the time to experiment was way back when he first got the gig - we were already losing more games then winning, and expectations were low as (post Bennet) the incumbent coach was 'on a hiding to nothing', or so was the concensus.

Instead Steve Price is now paying the price for his lack of vision, creativity and ideas, and in the absence of marquee signings, not giving young talent a go earlier - instead rigidly sticking to the same players. His assessment of games was unrealistic at best, and at worst he was effectively lying to himself and the team. That was his "fake it 'till you make it" talk thawing out in the sun. It's gone completely off now.

My real disgust however is he frequently applauded mediocre performances through the course of most of last year. Instead of consequences for player's poor performances, (calling a spade a spade will do) time and time again the team was left feeling that all was ok because they 'had a dig' and so the coach was proud. As a consequence the standards of play shown on the field have continued on a downward slide. Having a dig is a given in every game ...like putting on boots and a red and white jersey when taking the field.

And when he did make changes, they were sometimes bizarre, eg. leaving one side of the backline distinctly weak in defence, and continue to be so today e.g. Nightingale in some quasi 5-8 / centre role over the weekend. Our best player throughout all of these difficult times was so out of sorts with it.. How is that one explained?

I do not buy the "we don't have the cattle" line. It's a coach's job first up to instruct players and instill discipline, motivate and mentally prepare them as the means to develop them and bring out their best - with whom he has got! Geoff Toovey is a great example of that, and now too Ivan Cleary. On paper, his team is far less than ours is.

Steve Price is now struggling with his own earned reputation.

Sadly, he does not come across as a strong character let alone a strong leader, and he certainly is unable to mentally prepare players and command respect. If he had the footy brains and strategy then that may compensate, but really, I don't think he has that either. He is a top bloke for sure, resilient and unquestionably he tries his best.

Mentally however, our team is very soft. No team fears us at all anymore - not even playing in our heartland. They frequently admit that the opposition takes to the field with more intent then they do, worse still, as soon as something goes against them, bad ref's calls, injury, bad luck etc. Dragon's discipline falls in a heap with drop ball, forward passes from dummy half, penalties, defensive lapses, kicks out on the full - the list goes on. And there is no leadership or control taken by any player on the field - Ben Creagh tries hard, great player, big héart, top bloke. But he's also a softie.

Where do you think they all get it from?

Please don't accuse me of being negative. I think this is realistic. Welcome the Pro-Price people to point out where he has added value to the team, or where, through his influence, hope lies.

really well thought out and structured thread thanks
 

TheRev

Coach
Messages
10,849
Hello Karuah - I think the problems lie squarely with Steve Price, or moreso those who employed him.
Wont quote it all, but nicely written post which is scaringly the same as my views on all things going on within the club.

One thing I would like to add is the way we have used the junior system, I feel like our recruitment has been the worst run aspect of our clubs management, not only our 1st grade side, but the lack of talent coming through the junior ranks, and the lack of communication between Price/McGregor & Doust.

There seems to be an abundance of superstars at other clubs, powerful young stars in the making, but apart from the purchase of Drinkwater and our only real talent to come through in years is Rein/King and they are far from sure things still, King maybe if he comes good, but there is just no other competition for first grade spots and its making our 1st grade squad weak.

Maybe its bad luck, maybe its poor player scouting for lower grades, but the jump in age between the potential talent/kids (i.e. Cummins/Quin/Hastings/Garvey/Runciman) is too great, and even then only 2 of those will probably be genuine 1st grade material & 3 of them are playing fullback.

And even bigger than that is the Illawarra Cutters, imo their sole purpose is grooming players for 1st grade, every week Price/McGregor should be talking about upcoming holes or injury cover and what player should be developing where, the absolute worst examples were the management of Kyle Stanley who supposedly was the next 5/8 yet had a chance to develop any skills there, someone like Quinlan was sitting on the wing until Lett left the club, why would they do that? Was Lett first choice of fullback for 1st grade? If so why did Flo keep getting the spot? imo Quinlan was more likely to be used in the halves or fullback? Is Todd Ryan ever going to play 1st grade? If not why is he starting over someone who might? Doust needs to be involved too if he wants to be in charge of recruitment.

Doust won a few points back with the signing of Widdop & Dugen, but.. he took far too long getting Dugen onboard and likewise with the halfback/Rangi situation (2013 slipping away fast), not that it should ever have been left this late anyway, yes the Bellamy incident was a huge part of it, but much like Price's coaching, there is too much Reactive management and nobody with vision.
 
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