The Knights last 4 weeks.

[Noname36]

There are still some very wealthy people / business in Newcastle.

It's not all about TPAs, it's more about f**ked management & overpaying players, imo.

However....Overpaying players is not all about f**ked management for some clubs.

In all fairness there were some very wealthy people in Newcastle but that's not as much the case nowadays with the collapse of the mining industry and the subsequent fallout to a number of industries. From my experience up there some of these businesses are still wealthy but times are much tougher and a lot of them are pulling investments all over the shop. I know from working at a local league club we've lot a lot of sponsorship recently for that very reason (seriously like half of them) and I'd imagine it would be the same at a higher level. Most of the bigger businesses in Newcastle I find are already club sponsors which can't be used for TPAs.

I certainly think the major issue is shoddy roster/cap management - Bennett really f**ked us over, and Tinkler pissing off the local community certainly didn't help because that of course would make sourcing TPAs much harder however the reality of the matter is Newcastle in general isn't exactly booming at the moment the way it was. Lots of places shutting down, people being made redundant all over the shop. I find all the "it's just shit management" calls very short-sighted frankly because Newcastle have gone through more management shakeups/ownership models than anyone and yet this is still something they've continued to struggle with. Surely that tells people something?

 

[Knight76]

If a player is receiving money from any person as a way of inducing him to play for the club, then that money will be included in the Salary Cap.
Income that a player earns from parties not related to his club is generally not included in the Salary Cap, however, the details of the agreement must be advised to the club by the player.
The club must then get approval for the agreement from the Salary Cap Auditor in order for the remuneration to be excluded.

That is from the salary cap details at NRL.com

In the interview I posted above, the player agent stated the club was well aware the contract was not being signed because they were arranging TPA's to bump up Thurstons remuneration. The fact that the contract was not being signed and on hold, suggests Thurston was keeping his options open if TPA's could not be sourced. This surely sounds like payments from someone to remain at the club to me.

TPA's are meant to allow players to earn money from their profile, like working for channel 9 commentating, or advertising underpants. The clubs are using them to boost their salary cap and included in deals to entice a player to a club, or keep them there.

The cap is not working as it was intended.

Example. Thurston wants to stay at Cowboys but says he is worth 1 million per year in the open market counting other sports etc. Cowboys only have 700k per year to offer him. A local kitchen company and an electrical company pays Thurston the extra 300k split 150k each. The club then suddenly has a need for some electrical work and a new kitchen which seems to cost a fair bit in labor.

 

[johnny plath]

Example. Thurston wants to stay at Cowboys but says he is worth 1 million per year in the open market counting other sports etc. Cowboys only have 700k per year to offer him. A local kitchen company and an electrical company pays Thurston the extra 300k split 150k each. The club then suddenly has a need for some electrical work and a new kitchen which seems to cost a fair bit in labor.[/QUOTE]

This is just unsubstantiated story telling to support your argument. This example you've given is what parra have been doing and isn't legal. ..to say this is how clubs do it with nothing to back it up is just wrong . Tpas are a legitimate income for players.if they're done right. .which players and their agents and clubs do. ....the fact that tinkler has alienated the business community in Newcastle seems to be s real issue as opposed to out and out poor management. ...gold coast went through something similar when Searle was in charge bit they seem to be coming out the other side now.
Also the salary cap was introduced to save clubs from going broke rather than spreading talent ..the fact that it acted as competition leveler was a fortunate side effect but not necessarily the intent .

 

[Sydney Knight]

These localised third party deals or ones that come from 'supporters' of a club are definitely the more suspicious ones.

Example 1 - Nike decide to give Jonathan Thurston $300,000 a year as a third party sponsorship. They probably don't care that much if he decided to move to another club

Example 2 - Townsville BMW would like to give Jonathan Thurston $300,000 a year as a TPA. Whether they put it in writing or not it is going to be an influence on him signing for the Cowboys. Its not like Townsville BMW are going to say cool just sign with Melbourne or Newcastle and just pop in once a year for a meet and greet and we will still give you the $300K

Sydney is probably a bit different as you have 9 teams in the same city but on similar lines if wealthy businessman Fred Nerk who is a lifelong roosters supporter offers JT $300k as a TPA its going to be on the proviso he comes to the roosters. If he signs with Parra then Fred Nerk will suddenly disappear from the picture

 

[Perth Red]

These localised third party deals or ones that come from 'supporters' of a club are definitely the more suspicious ones.

Example 1 - Nike decide to give Jonathan Thurston $300,000 a year as a third party sponsorship. They probably don't care that much if he decided to move to another club

Example 2 - Townsville BMW would like to give Jonathan Thurston $300,000 a year as a TPA. Whether they put it in writing or not it is going to be an influence on him signing for the Cowboys. Its not like Townsville BMW are going to say cool just sign with Melbourne or Newcastle and just pop in once a year for a meet and greet and we will still give you the $300K

Sydney is probably a bit different as you have 9 teams in the same city but on similar lines if wealthy businessman Fred Nerk who is a lifelong roosters supporter offers JT $300k as a TPA its going to be on the proviso he comes to the roosters. If he signs with Parra then Fred Nerk will suddenly disappear from the picture

That's why one answer would be that tpa have to go through the NRL,with much more detail. A simple clause for multi year tpa re the tpa staying in place if a player moves clubs wouldn't be hard to introduce. Not sure the tax the rich to help the incompetent is a great model though seems to be accepted in afl.

Publishing all tpa would bring them out of the shadows and also stop clandestine deals imo. It's harder to be dodgy when everything is in the light.

 

[Perth Red]

Ps NRL needs to stop hiding from the fact that players and managers are likely also involved and complicit in this. Wouldn't be hard to get them to sign an avadavat for each TPA then anything that comes to light beyond the signed agreement there can be no hiding the involvement of players and they should get punished equally. Can guarantee that would reduce the incidence of this!

 

[Sydney Knight]

Agree making them more transparent would help. It seems pretty obvious that many third party deals are being sourced by clubs. apparently Darius Boyd had TPA's with various coal mining organisations when at the Knights and you can't tell me that was just a coincidence.

They all fell over in the end and refused to pay when most of them were shafted by Tinkler.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Rick Stuart almost lost a game as coach to this mob. I don't think we should forget that.

 

[betcats]

I don't remember a lot of complaint about the system when Newcastle used it to sign Darius Boyd, Beau Scott etc...It just seems obvious the Tinkler era led to a lot of these problems. I mean when there are rumours over a number of weeks about players not getting paid then of course it will effect your ability to negotiate and sign players, reputation does count for something. That is just one part of the tinkler sideshow that went on.

 

[nick87]

Rick Stuart almost lost a game as coach to this mob. I don't think we should forget that.

The shame cant be washed off.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

The shame cant be washed off.

Haha! This is why I love Raiders supporters and feel they deserve more.

Anyway, we get to play the Knights in 3 weeks. Another smokescreen for our useless coach!

 

[The Charlatan]

Ps NRL needs to stop hiding from the fact that players and managers are likely also involved and complicit in this. Wouldn't be hard to get them to sign an avadavat for each TPA then anything that comes to light beyond the signed agreement there can be no hiding the involvement of players and they should get punished equally. Can guarantee that would reduce the incidence of this!

Where are you having a Dave at?

 

[ram raid]

I agree with Bernie Gurr that player's wages should be transparent. That would solve everything.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

I agree with Bernie Gurr that player's wages should be transparent. That would solve everything.

No it wouldn't. How does that solve brown paper bag dropoffs? Hidden payments to families and post-career incentives etc?

Players' wages are transparent to the NRL, or at least that's the premise of the salary cap. Didn't work. And we don't need to know them. Does the media? That'd just lead to more goose chasing and mud-flinging at the haves of the competition.

 

[Knight76]

No it wouldn't. How does that solve brown paper bag dropoffs? Hidden payments to families and post-career incentives etc?

Players' wages are transparent to the NRL, or at least that's the premise of the salary cap. Didn't work. And we don't need to know them. Does the media? That'd just lead to more goose chasing and mud-flinging at the haves of the competition.

There wouldn't be any need for mud slinging at the haves if the NRL actually did something to ensure the laughable salary cap was actually effective. In the present situation, may as well get rid of the cap and hasten the league heading towards a few teams playing for the honors each year and the rest going broke or having no chance.

 

[ram raid]

The NRL really needs to take control of the TPA crap ... or just jettison it. The NFL has transparent wages. I'm a very casual follower of NFL but from what I can see they don't have the constant salary cap scandals we have. I'm happy to be corrected though by someone who follows NFL? At the moment transparent wages seems like the best idea to me.

 

[DiegoNT]

The NRL really needs to take control of the TPA crap ... or just jettison it. The NFL has transparent wages. I'm a very casual follower of NFL but from what I can see they don't have the constant salary cap scandals we have. I'm happy to be corrected though by someone who follows NFL? At the moment transparent wages seems like the best idea to me.

Does the nfl step in when the number 1 draft pick signs a multi-million dollar deal with nike?

Take Ben Simmons for example, he has a shoe deal that will be worth millions more if the Lakers pick him over other teams, NBA has no control over that

 

[seanoff]

Does the nfl step in when the number 1 draft pick signs a multi-million dollar deal with nike?

Take Ben Simmons for example, he has a shoe deal that will be worth millions more if the Lakers pick him over other teams, NBA has no control over that

Ummm yes. In 2011 Nike signed a contract with the NFL that forced every player to wear Nike shoes. If you had an agreement with adidas, etc you had to cover up you were wearing them in game at practice and in any official capacity

You also cannot appear in uniform or have the ad reference the NFL or club. Also no conflicts of interest with the league. So if the league are sponsored by Telstra, no Optus, no Vodafone etc

No alcohol or cigarettes or in the USA gambling.

So yes they do control any and all third party agreements quite strictly.

 

[DiegoNT]

Ummm yes. In 2011 Nike signed a contract with the NFL that forced every player to wear Nike shoes. If you had an agreement with adidas, etc you had to cover up you were wearing them in game at practice and in any official capacity

You also cannot appear in uniform or have the ad reference the NFL or club. Also no conflicts of interest with the league. So if the league are sponsored by Telstra, no Optus, no Vodafone etc

No alcohol or cigarettes or in the USA gambling.

So yes they do control any and all third party agreements quite strictly.

So they didn't stop any third party deals (you could still have a third party deal with adidas), but they stopped any connection with those companies and the league? Kinda like how when guys like smith etc appear in sports drink ads they wear generic rugby jumpers instead pf real nrl jumpers, and Thurston has to cover his Skins and there are no reference to the nrl in his Skins ads.

 

[seanoff]

yep

and quite a few things are outright banned (medicalg services, pharamcueticals, alcohol, gamblign,cigs and anything that clashes with the NFL partners