The Knights last 4 weeks.

[perverse]

How will we ever get the comp completely fair? Every club has its ups and downs, it's advantages and disadvantages, it's good periods and bad. Years of great management and bad. 4 years ago it was unfair that newcastle had a billionaire owner that could go out and buy the comps best ever coach and buy a bucket load of established players

You ensure each team spends the same amount of money on their roster, for starters. I actually think the off-field cap that is being proposed/implemented is stupid. If the rich clubs want an advantage, it should come in off field advantages (as it always has). These include location, facilities, coaching staff, etc.

The NRL are looking at this sort of stupid shit when they know, by just looking at the books, that some teams rosters are worth million/s more than others. It's dumb. Dumb, or misdirection because they are content with the current status quo.

 

[Knight76]

How would a talent /cap points system work?
Would Hodkinson be worth way more points then adam Reynolds or sezer because his players origin? Would auva'a or linett be on more points then james roberts? Would you get points for playing tests? Would a simian player like ben roberts be worth equal points to cronk? How do you factor in age? If you have someone judge players and assigned points who does it? Imagination if you get guys like daley and Fulton judging all nrl players the same way they have unearthed this generate of bluesy players

Player ranking would have to be sliding up and down depending on performance for the year. If a player is playing test and origin then they are likely earning good talent points just playing for their club. I think Rep games should be excluded from the points system as you get some players who are struggling at club level but are incumbent in their position for origin etc and still get picked.

Then go back to playing average for their club.

Look, I don't have any perfect system worked out. Everybody generally knows who the pecking order for players in each position in the league. The talent cap would mean you can't field a team of 10 internationals, pretty much what the salary cap was designed to do. And you can't rort it as there is no outside interference that can happen.

How players are rated is difficult. Having just a few people handling it would not work.

 

[macavity]

How will we ever get the comp completely fair? Every club has its ups and downs, it's advantages and disadvantages, it's good periods and bad. Years of great management and bad. 4 years ago it was unfair that newcastle had a billionaire owner that could go out and buy the comps best ever coach and buy a bucket load of established players

Firstly, Jack Gibson wasn't available.

Secondly, we still had to play under the cap.

Thirdly, it was a pretty pathetic haul!

Now line that up against Parra's signing spree in the past 2 years, or the Roosters regular re-tooling, or the Broncos buying James Roberts with money they found down the back of the couch.

You again don't understand how the goal posts have moved. I am thinking the view is a lot clearer from down low.

 

[DiegoNT]

Firstly, Jack Gibson wasn't available.

Secondly, we still had to play under the cap.

Thirdly, it was a pretty pathetic haul!

Now line that up against Parra's signing spree in the past 2 years, or the Roosters regular re-tooling, or the Broncos buying James Roberts with money they found down the back of the couch.

You again don't understand how the goal posts have moved. I am thinking the view is a lot clearer from down low.

Yea, no souths fan would have any idea what it's like going for the worst run and poorest team in the comp

 

[GreenMachine121]

How would a talent /cap points system work?
Would Hodkinson be worth way more points then adam Reynolds or sezer because his players origin? Would auva'a or linett be on more points then james roberts? Would you get points for playing tests? Would a simian player like ben roberts be worth equal points to cronk? How do you factor in age? If you have someone judge players and assigned points who does it? Imagination if you get guys like daley and Fulton judging all nrl players the same way they have unearthed this generate of bluesy players

As in he is a monkey ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simian

 

[DiegoNT]

As in he is a monkey ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simian

Bad typo

 

[THE CHAMP]

Bad typo

Really bad.

 

[macavity]

Yea, no souths fan would have any idea what it's like going for the worst run and poorest team in the comp

And the cap allowed you to become competitive.

 

[DiegoNT]

And the cap allowed you to become competitive.

And now it's made us uncompetitive

 

[macavity]

And now it's made us uncompetitive

You are in bad form, apparently caused by coach/player disharmony.

Very different from being a bad team.

And if you need to add to your squad, you have the means to do so.

Can you remember how much you have beat us by the past few matches?

 

[Sleep]

Still aren't as bad as the Magpies final year or the Bulldogs the year SBW walked out and the entire team quit and tanked the rest of the season.

 

[Perth Red]

You ensure each team spends the same amount of money on their roster, for starters. I actually think the off-field cap that is being proposed/implemented is stupid. If the rich clubs want an advantage, it should come in off field advantages (as it always has). These include location, facilities, coaching staff, etc.

The NRL are looking at this sort of stupid shit when they know, by just looking at the books, that some teams rosters are worth million/s more than others. It's dumb. Dumb, or misdirection because they are content with the current status quo.

So you want to reduce the amount of money the star players can earn? That'll be a good outcome for the game! Of course the NRL know some clubs are earning more than others, they have a set of rules in place to minimise this to try and allow players to earn as much as possible whilst not having some clubs tanking their squads through TPA's. That clubs like eels are cheating this, and no doubt others yet to be found out, isn't the nrl's fault, it's cheating clubs fault. I can't see another alternative other than to go to a salary cap based on % of revenue earnt. That way at least every club has a shot at succeeding or failing on its own ability to raise revenue.

 

[perverse]

So you want to reduce the amount of money the star players can earn? That'll be a good outcome for the game! Of course the NRL know some clubs are earning more than others, they have a set of rules in place to minimise this to try and allow players to earn as much as possible whilst not having some clubs tanking their squads through TPA's. That clubs like eels are cheating this, and no doubt others yet to be found out, isn't the nrl's fault, it's cheating clubs fault. I can't see another alternative other than to go to a salary cap based on % of revenue earnt. That way at least every club has a shot at succeeding or failing on its own ability to raise revenue.

Or, you think outside the box even just a little bit. I'm not purporting to have all the answers, but a couple of reasonably uncontroversial options that I know would help the Knights would include:

1. Include TPA's under the salary cap, make it a soft cap and introduce a luxury tax, dispersing the taxes earned to clubs that don't go over the cap proportionately to how far under they are.
2. Introduce a cleaner player transfer system that involves transfer fees for mid-contract club switching.

This will funnel money to clubs that can't spend as much as richer clubs, hopefully granting them funds in following years with which to compete. It will allow clubs that produce a lot of talent to get something back when players are getting snapped up by wealthier clubs 12-18 months in advance of their contract expiring. It does all this while restraining no-ones ability to earn money.

This should have the added benefit of removing the salary cap scandals we have every few years, too.

Rich clubs may complain that they have to pay tax because their players are marketable and able to earn more money from 3rd party sources, but to be honest that's the price you pay for having all the best players. It's not a perfect system, but it is a step towards fairness from the current situation.

 

[Noname36]

That's not entirely true. We know our chairmans plans for success - we just need some magic. :lol:

Oh f**king hell :lol:

 

[peter file]

If you can't get TPAs in a one club city, perhaps the club is in the wrong place and should be relocated.

 

[Card Shark]

There are still some very wealthy people / business in Newcastle.

It's not all about TPAs, it's more about f**ked management & overpaying players, imo.

However....Overpaying players is not all about f**ked management for some clubs.

 

[betcats]

If you can't get TPAs in a one club city, perhaps the club is in the wrong place and should be relocated.

We should just move every club to Sydney and Brisbane. Forget everywhere else.

 

[betcats]

We had two good games. Not like we were expected to win either or performed consistently that season or the next - it was two good games, pretty much entirely in isolation.

You finished fourth that year. From 2005 onwards the panthers made the 8 in 2010(which in most peoples opinions was very flukey) and 2014. That's all of our good seasons for the last ten years, you can include this year if you want because despite losing half our games its been pretty good. 3 good years out of 11. Its just the way footy is for some clubs. I doubt Parra or Canberra have much better records over that period of time either.

The current system doesn't stop Newcastle from being competitive, it might make it harder for them then others but that is true for most clubs, most of us are a lot closer to your situation then the broncos. The reality of the situation is Bennett coached the team to win now with no regard or thought given to planning for the future and Tinkler seemingly ruined your reputation with a lot of the business in Newcastle. Its hard but Newcastle just has to tough it out and rebuild.

 

[Caped Crusader]

You finished fourth that year. From 2005 onwards the panthers made the 8 in 2010(which in most peoples opinions was very flukey) and 2014. That's all of our good seasons for the last ten years, you can include this year if you want because despite losing half our games its been pretty good. 3 good years out of 11. Its just the way footy is for some clubs. I doubt Parra or Canberra have much better records over that period of time either.

The current system doesn't stop Newcastle from being competitive, it might make it harder for them then others but that is true for most clubs, most of us are a lot closer to your situation then the broncos. The reality of the situation is Bennett coached the team to win now with no regard or thought given to planning for the future and Tinkler seemingly ruined your reputation with a lot of the business in Newcastle. Its hard but Newcastle just has to tough it out and rebuild.

This is a hell of a lot closer to reality than the old " the systems set up for us to lose" story that's being told. Fact is the Knights have been hamstrung in 2016 by the actions of past seasons and it's a long road out. There are no quick fixes unless they somehow find a way to rort the system without getting found out

Tinkler blacked the clubs rep. There are businesses in the Hunter that will have nothing to do with the club simply due to his involvement. They lost a major sponsor as soon as he came on board ffs.

The club, and fans, can't afford to sit by and take the "woe is me" approach and wait for the NRL to come up with a solution. The club management needs to make the moves right now to improve their position in all facets. I honestly see no value in whinging about fairness etc when there is no other sporting competition in the world that has the level of evenness the NRL has.

 

[Knight76]

I don't believe for a second the knights are set up to lose from the outset with TPA's. The Knights have a huge area they can canvas for TPA's and if they can't find anything, well that is either a sign of the clubs ineptitude at arranging them, or the region not feeling linked to the club enough to want to offer them or spend the money to see the Knights successful.

What I see, is that we have a salary cap. It is meant to represent what each team can spend on their squad. Yet, it does not due to various third party agreements outside the cap. If an NRL team were to include all third party agreements in their cap amount, what would we see is the true team value?

I just read a transcript of a discussion from back when the Storm were caught. I found it interesting: http://www.sbs.com.au/news/sites/sb.../363421_insight_cheatingtowin_transcript.html

One of the comments was from a player agent who was negotiating Thurstons contract at the time. He made the comment that he gets asked a lot why hasn't the Thurston contract been finished yet. The reason was, that they were busily sourcing TPA's in the background to keep him there. Now that is money outside the cap. The purpose of the cap is to spread the talent around by enforcing teams spend equally. This isn't working. If the cap was working properly, Thurston would have had to move to another club, or leave the game to play union etc.

Another comment from a player manager stated he had a player agree to terms with a CEO of a club for $250,000 per season, the contract arrives and it is for $200k per season with a TPA contract for 50k with it. Again, this is against the very idea of a salary cap. It isn't working in it's current form.

The cap can only function fairly, when all aspects of player payments are capped. Even then, you will have teams who will pay players outside the cap, but you always will. And you will lose some players to other sports, that has to be the cost of running the league fairly, keeping the playing field level. I'm not against TPA's, but I am against the wild west that TPA's are now.