The Knights last 4 weeks.

[age.s]

Hey it's Newcastle's fans saying that it is literally impossible for them to compete in the NRL...where's that leave us?

Those Newcastle fans need to harden up. We all go through shit times and yes their club is copping it right now but saying the club is doomed forever is extreme melodrama. There's no reason NQ or the Sharks can be successful while the Knights can't.

 

[yobbo84]

No sympathy Knights fans.

 

[AnAccountant]

No sympathy Knights fans.

Rest assured it's not just Complaincastle laughing at Souftffhtfys.

Get some cheerleaders you boring twats.

 

[BuderusIsaBeast]

As a Knights fan I honestly believe poor salary cap management has more to do with our situation then anything else. We have some average players on massive money and long term contracts. Teams like the Sharks have shown you can be successful without huge third party deals. Our club has been a basket case since before the Tinkler mess. As for the 62 nil loss, we started the year with one of the worst rosters and went into the game with a number of injuries and fielding a team that had 7 players 20 or younger playing against an in form Sharks side. Things are bad now however as the season goes on and we get some players back plus the young kids get more used to first grade we will improve.

 

[AnAccountant]

As a Knights fan I honestly believe poor salary cap management has more to do with our situation then anything else. We have some average players on massive money and long term contracts. Teams like the Sharks have shown you can be successful without huge third party deals. Our club has been a basket case since before the Tinkler mess. As for the 62 nil loss, we started the year with one of the worst rosters and went into the game with a number of injuries and fielding a team that had 7 players 20 or younger playing against an in form Sharks side. Things are bad now however as the season goes on and we get some players back plus the young kids get more used to first grade we will improve.

Good to see one fan be able to admit it.

It's nobody but Knights managment fault that they sign average player to MASSIVE deal.

You won't make the finals for the duration of Hodgekinson contract.

 

[lockyrulz]

Those Newcastle fans need to harden up. We all go through shit times and yes their club is copping it right now but saying the club is doomed forever is extreme melodrama. There's no reason NQ or the Sharks can be successful while the Knights can't.

Well there you have it.

How are the Cowboys able to build a premiership winning team in a city with a population less than half of the Hunter?

 

[gUt]

Bring back Kirk Reynoldson

 

[betcats]

I reckon Penriths NYC team could give that Knights team from yesterday a fair test. The size and strength of Newcastles 3 FGers would tell in the end but it would be fun to watch!

 

[Johns Magic]

Good to see one fan be able to admit it.

It's nobody but Knights managment fault that they sign average player to MASSIVE deal.

You won't make the finals for the duration of Hodgekinson contract.

Tying this in with my earlier post - it is stupid that we made those signings, but I understand why it has happened to us.

No good player in demand wants to come to us.

Good juniors like Tapine and Sione get picked off by other clubs after 5 first grade games.

It is very difficult to make positive change when that's happening and you don't have a strong squad.

That's why these desperation signings happen. The board has to sign someone, and the only players we can recruit need to be a) overpaid and b) unwanted by other clubs. Hence your average player to massive deal comment result.

When you're trying to build from within because you can't compete on the player market, and then the Dogs-Sione situation happens, it is understandable that we try and match those ridiculous offers they are getting from richer clubs.

It has turned out to be a mistake, which is why we let Tapine go IMO. Unlucky on that one because Sione did look like a star but hasnt kicked on.

These signings we have made are bad management, but I can see how they happen in desperate times. We are in an inferior position to other clubs.

 

[perverse]

Lots of people in this thread talking about the state of our club clearly have nfi what they're talking about. Let me clear up a few.misconceptions:

1. When Tinkler left, his bank guarantee had shrunk to half it's original value (down to 10 million). Most of this was used to square up creditors that were left in Tinks hefty wake. While we weren't left in the red, we weren't left with a battle chest, either. We came out ahead, but we didn't come out wealthy. So put that to bed for starters.

2. The reason why we have players on inflated contracts is simply because we have to offer them what the rest of the market offers them. Where most other clubs can pad this number with TPAs, we can't. This is not purely through negligence... which brings me to...

3. "The Hunter" is a big region, yes... but it's almost entirely working class. There's no money left in the town. National sponsors don't give a shit about our market, local sponsors either have no money, or are fed up with the club after all the bullshit of the past 10-15 years, some of it under our control, most of it not. Tinkler also disenfranchised a large portion of corporate supporters, and that goodwill with the community will take a long time to rebuild.

There are a lot of reasons why we are where we are, and mismanagement has played a significant role without question. Our argument is that there are systemic issues with the current TPA situation that makes it even harder than it needs to be for us to dig out of this hole. The only reason this is controversial is that supporters of successful teams under the status quo don't want us to devalue what their teams have achieved. That is fine, I don't mean to do that... But the situation is what it is, and to be honest I feel for a club to get out of this situation under the current rules is as much luck and gambling as it is good management.

 

[betcats]

Newcastle needs a Gould or someone like that who has connections all over RL and some connections with the rich part of town. It's hard to imagine having an old boy like Gidley run the club is going to get you to where you need to be financially.

 

[Eion]

There are a lot of reasons why we are where we are, and mismanagement has played a significant role without question. Our argument is that there are systemic issues with the current TPA situation that makes it even harder than it needs to be for us to dig out of this hole. The only reason this is controversial is that supporters of successful teams under the status quo don't want us to devalue what their teams have achieved. That is fine, I don't mean to do that... But the situation is what it is, and to be honest I feel for a club to get out of this situation under the current rules is as much luck and gambling as it is good management.

I agree the TPA thing is a big issue that needs to be addressed and a lot of clubs need a fair amount of luck and great management to rise to the top.

But the best buy the sharks made was Lyall Gorman, and that wasn't luck. The club made a tough call to get rid of a competent CEO in Noycey. I bagged them at the time but it was a master stroke. The difference in the sharks as an organisation under Lyall is light years from the past. It's that type of person newy needs to re-engage with the community, rebuild pride and start the long road back.

 

[Sydney Knight]

Yes, sidestep my counter argument because you have nothing.

Especially the part where you state that you've paid market value for certain players, yet when they were recruited by a so called 'unlimited TPA club' they decided to stay with you.

I'll call you Benji from now on.

How are we a bottom feeder club. 2 premierships in 28 years. Penrith didn't make the semis until their 20th year. Souths didn't make the semis from 89 to 2007. Sharks haven't won a comp in their 50 years.

 

[Sydney Knight]

Teams like Newcastle and the Cowboys have an advantage during the good times as if you have a stable roster of some.locals and imports who like the area a lot will stay for less due to cheaper cost of living. Knights had this in the 90s and early 2000s as a lot of players stayed for less than what Sydney clubs could offer. Cowboys seem to be in a similar position now.

It's when you are struggling that you seem to have to pay overs to get people to come

 

[T-Boon]

The Knights are the sort of team that need their own identity, play their own style in order to set themselves apart and make them appealing. In the late 80's early 90's they were known as a grinding, tough, no-nonsense team. But that is how every team plays now. All Brown currently offers is an inferior version of the exact some game plan every other team has. His currently philosophy seems to be "be patient it will take a few years for me to have us competitive playing exactly like everyone else".
What about if he was brave and said lets go another way. Lets aim to throw 20 passes per set rather than the current average 7 passes per set. Lets get 25 offloads today rather than 5. Lets try to score from within our own half rather than 5 hit ups. Parra did this in 09 for a few months and almost shocked the nation.

 

[Someone]

Not unless the TPA system changes they won't. There is pretty much nothing we can do to improve our competitiveness under the current system.

If we want to recruit or keep a player that literally any other club in the comp wants, we have to pay cap-overs to do so - meaning we are literally unable to build a competitive squad.

But as long as the strong clubs keep winning, then reloading, the NRL is all fine.

just break the salary cap like parramatta.

same circumstances there. couldn't get any players to come to the shit heap so paid overs and illegal TPAs.

anyone that thinks the salary cap is working is an idiot. players getting greedier and greedier doesnt help. neither does the lack of 'quality' coaches that players would want to play for without an added incentive of a salary over their market value.

 

[coolumsharkie]

Beale was from the Dragons.

Yes, people questioning the Sharks cap are just salty stains.

As you mentioned sometimes teams just get lucky securing players that aren't wanted or valued at other clubs for whatever reason, as well as having young guys not on much step up.

I honestly think that the Sharks have as much chance of winning as anybody this season. And that hurts a little to say tbh.

Correct.

 

[Hutty1986]

Newcastle needs a Gould or someone like that who has connections all over RL and some connections with the rich part of town. It's hard to imagine having an old boy like Gidley run the club is going to get you to where you need to be financially.

Matty Gidley running the Knights reminds me of the time they put Lenny in charge of the power plant on The Simpsons

 

[Caped Crusader]

I think if it was out in the open it would be a lot easier to debate. Maybe the knights are extremely hideously managed or maybe they are operating on significantly less money than every other team in the comp. It would put things into perspective.

IMO this is more of the issue at Newcastle rather than a lack of TPA opportunities. Teams like Canberra, Nth Qld and GC all have similar geography issues and are doing ok with signing talent. Having Uate, a winger, on $500K long term for starters points to this fact

Brisbane is the only team with a real advantage over the rest of the comp when it comes to TPAs. They have a capital city virtually to themselves with only weak competition from other codes. Theres not much the NRL can do to pull this advantage back unfortunately seeing as they have all but ruled out putting another team up there. Unless the Reds suddenly start being a force and attract Rugby talent from SE/Central Qld not much is gonna change

 

[macavity]

Hey it's Newcastle's fans saying that it is literally impossible for them to compete in the NRL...where's that leave us?

It is impossible to compete with the deck stacked against us.

Lets put this in non-sporting terms.

Going from a cap to effectively no cap is like taking HECS away, and then denigrating working class people for being unable to get a university education or high paying job.

Yes, they theoretically can go to uni, but without the ability to pay for it, that ability is theoretical only. Sure, they could marry rich, whore themselves or rob convenience stores, but in reality the ability to gain that step up the ladder is taken away.

Similarly, taking away the cap takes away the ability for "small market" or "less connected" clubs to compete on a level playing field.

I realise the Broncos and Roosters fans (and a few others) like to ignore that and just focus on how good they are and how much they deserve their success. Much like people born rich like to tell themselves how much they deserve their success. Funny that.