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Refereeing The Magic Round sin bin directive

Chimp

Bench
Messages
2,872
Joke referring to what our faceless CEO said.

Apparently unless you went to magic round your opinion is worthless, and if you disagree well you're wrong anyway.
Ahhhh makes sense....

I like a lot of what PVL and Abdo have done, I actually like that they make decisions and take action where they see fit - I just think they’ve gone the wrong way with this. I think pandering to the solicitors and doctors is the thing that will ruin the game, and probably lead to more claims against us. I think being strong in that we’re a contact sport with inherent risk puts the onus back on players whether they choose to accept those risks and play or to not bother with RL.
 

some11

Referee
Messages
23,675
I’m usually an 8 game a week kinda guy.

I’ve been finding myself flicking over, or worse, off over the past month.

This weekend I don’t think I got through 80 minutes of a single game. A couple I was lucky to hit half time.
Pretty much my thoughts. My team sucks ass but I watch others games because I am a fan of the sport and I play supercoach.

I don't know where it goes from here if they're gonna send people off in Origin and you've got 13 on 12 or 11 and everyone just switches off.
 
Messages
14,731
Pretty much my thoughts. My team sucks ass but I watch others games because I am a fan of the sport and I play supercoach.

I don't know where it goes from here if they're gonna send people off in Origin and you've got 13 on 12 or 11 and everyone just switches off.


Looking at the ratings and listening to people in my circle for the past 48 hours (many who support teams right across the NRL), people have switched off.

Getting them back is gonna be a task.
 

Zoe Palmer

Juniors
Messages
211
Ultimately, I do agree with the initiative of eradicating head high tackles, I just think sin-bins and send offs are the wrong way to deal with the issue. The best thing the NRL could have done is to have all head contact incidents put on report and increase the length of time for suspensions.
.

Given its a directive of the coach to have 3 guys attacking the ball and above in every tackle maybe the clubs should be fined if the players break the rules by following the clubs orders :thinking:
 

Zoe Palmer

Juniors
Messages
211
Yet Ray Price got knocked out more than most players of his era. Primarily from tackling gone wrong (not being tackled), going in low and reeling out in a daze...

now the poor bastards brain is going to mush...

Same with Brett Horsnell and Turvey Mortimer..

All were on an ABC panel program called Insight last year on the concussion debate. They showed replays of all these guys playing days when they got concussion. Almost all were from them making low tackles... not copping head highs..it was an awful highlight reel.

Even today, the most serious concussions are primarily from a tackler getting his head in the wrong spot. I fear the crackdown will have a knock on effect of more guys going low and getting it wrong.

Why are people dealing in extremes over this. No one is saying you have to go low and tackle the legs all the time.
Papalii could have pulled off the same tackle by aiming at the ribs instead of the blokes head
 

nick87

Coach
Messages
12,402
Why are people dealing in extremes over this. No one is saying you have to go low and tackle the legs all the time.
Papalii could have pulled off the same tackle by aiming at the ribs instead of the blokes head
There is an entire ankles to torso area to tackle

Papalii didnt do a lot wrong in that tackle, it ended very badly but we're talking about a few cms from that being a good hit to a terrible one. But the simple reality is if you dont take the care required, and you miss by those critical margins, you should have pay the price on that.

Papalii missed, he was rightfully sent off and he's rightfully sitting on the sidelines for the next 3 weeks. That's the cost of not taking the proper care to ensure you tackle safely, even if the margins are thin
 

lsta5838

Juniors
Messages
656
haven't read through all of this, but if we do change tackling styles... how is this going to project the defender from concussions? if you are fatigued and making the call to tackle low instead of high, easy to get your head into the wrong spot and cop a hip/knee... where is the duty of care towards the defending team/player?
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,960
There is an entire ankles to torso area to tackle

Papalii didnt do a lot wrong in that tackle, it ended very badly but we're talking about a few cms from that being a good hit to a terrible one. But the simple reality is if you dont take the care required, and you miss by those critical margins, you should have pay the price on that.

Papalii missed, he was rightfully sent off and he's rightfully sitting on the sidelines for the next 3 weeks. That's the cost of not taking the proper care to ensure you tackle safely, even if the margins are thin
You’ve obviously never played the game lol.

Take all the care you like, at high speed, under fatigue, and with a moving target, missing by a few centimetres happens constantly. And if we are consistent in the ruling, and send off every bloke who misses by a few cms, then there are going to be games where half a team is sent off.
 

lsta5838

Juniors
Messages
656
haven't read through all of this, but if we do change tackling styles... how is this going to project the defender from concussions? if you are fatigued and making the call to tackle low instead of high, easy to get your head into the wrong spot and cop a hip/knee... where is the duty of care towards the defending team/player?
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,960
haven't read through all of this, but if we do change tackling styles... how is this going to project the defender from concussions? if you are fatigued and making the call to tackle low instead of high, easy to get your head into the wrong spot and cop a hip/knee... where is the duty of care towards the defending team/player?
It’s not going to protect the defender, because you can’t protect the defender.

In fact as I said before, as long as there’s contact you can’t truely protect anybody.
 
Messages
8,480
Watching the Papenhousen incident

It was a high tackle and only warranted a sin bin

The reason Papenhousen stayed down was because he has had 2 or 3 prior concussions this season, not the force of tackle

It looked more like he wasnt medically ready to play on the weekend

I'd like to see a camera angle from behind Papenhuyzen... but they haven't shown any. I reckon that would best show what really hit what...

As bad as the end result was - the front-on camera angle it looked more to me like the point of the shoulder did the damage than a swinging arm which most people think. That mightn't mean much to people but it would demonstrate far lass "intent" more carelessness from Fuimaono..

Its head contact regardless and not arguing with send-off but i'm unsure that the arm does the damage, .. but an angle behind Pap would tell.

The thing I was more annoyed was selecting a second rower to play in the centres - defending out there. It's asking for trouble and especially against slick attacking outfit like the Storm. The guy is used to edge forwards running at him and defending in traffic, not sideways backline movements that have him defending isolated. Now he's got 5 weeks - rightly so - but thats what can happen when you put a player like him in such a foreign role. "Supercoach Griffin" should have a look at himself..

7f8f685b106059a6eab9ae71ab48c4db
 
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nick87

Coach
Messages
12,402
You’ve obviously never played the game lol.

Take all the care you like, at high speed, under fatigue, and with a moving target, missing by a few centimetres happens constantly. And if we are consistent in the ruling, and send off every bloke who misses by a few cms, then there are going to be games where half a team is sent off.

I played the game for 12 years, most of which i played both for my junior club and my school team.
Literally training 4 times a week, playing on Friday and Saturday and spending my only day off playing football in the back yard with my cousins. I came at this with a fair amount of first hand experience

No one is sending off every high contact. Where it is forceful and direct high contact, that's the problem. And i cant speak for your experience playing, but not a single coach i ever in 12 years at either club or school taught me to launch myself or target my contact at the upper body... You do that, you run the risk
 

Zoe Palmer

Juniors
Messages
211
haven't read through all of this, but if we do change tackling styles... how is this going to project the defender from concussions? if you are fatigued and making the call to tackle low instead of high, easy to get your head into the wrong spot and cop a hip/knee... where is the duty of care towards the defending team/player?


No one is saying you have to tackle low. Just don’t smash players in the head
 

nick87

Coach
Messages
12,402
It's weird that we're treating tackling as if you either have to dive at the guys shoe laces or accept that you might sometimes clean someones clock with a stiff arm or shoulder to the head.
Most tackles dont have any high contact. Where is high contact, most of the time, it is not forceful and direct.

The other 0.5% of the time, where it's forceful and direct contact to the head, you're going to pay the price. And now that the price is going to be paid players have the option to either keep doing what they're doing and take those risks, or alter their technique and get better technique and minimise the chances of direct, forceful contact to the head.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,960
I played the game for 12 years, most of which i played both for my junior club and my school team.
Literally training 4 times a week, playing on Friday and Saturday and spending my only day off playing football in the back yard with my cousins. I came at this with a fair amount of first hand experience

No one is sending off every high contact. Where it is forceful and direct high contact, that's the problem. And i cant speak for your experience playing, but not a single coach i ever in 12 years at either club or school taught me to launch myself or target my contact at the upper body... You do that, you run the risk
Your coaches never taught you to wrap the ball up?

Because you can’t wrap the ball up unless you ‘target your contact at the upper body’, and sometimes, often frankly, that’s going to go wrong.

So I highly, highly doubt that your coaches were training you to exclusively tackle below the chest, and if they did it would have done nothing to prevent concussions anyway.

So yeah, if we hold the standard set by the Papa send off, and others over the weekend, then there will be games where half a dozen guys or more are sent off and another handful are sin binned.
 

TheDMC

Bench
Messages
3,419
Watching the Papenhousen incident

It was a high tackle and only warranted a sin bin

The reason Papenhousen stayed down was because he has had 2 or 3 prior concussions this season, not the force of tackle

It looked more like he wasnt medically ready to play on the weekend

Excellent opinion bereft of any evidence or expertise. May I enquire whether COVID vaccines are safe in your learned opinion?
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,960
No one is saying you have to tackle low. Just don’t smash players in the head
Even if you don’t hit somebody in the head there’s a high chance of concussion.

So it’s BS to say “just don’t hit the head” because the inevitable next step is to try and completely eradicate concussion which is impossible in a contact sport.

Do you know how the soccer players were getting their concussions?
 

nick87

Coach
Messages
12,402
Your coaches never taught you to wrap the ball up?

Because you can’t wrap the ball up unless you ‘target your contact at the upper body’, and sometimes, often frankly, that’s going to go wrong.

So yeah I highly, highly doubt that your coaches were training you to exclusively tackle below the chest, and if they did it would have done nothing to prevent concussions anyway.

So yeah, if we hold the standard set by the Papa send off, and others over the weekend, then there will be games where half a dozen guys or more are sent off and another handful are sin binned.

The technique to wrapping the ball up would never result in hits like Papalii or Ese Ese.
Never. If your coach was teach you to wrap the ball up with a technique that could result in those collisions, he/she was a terrible coach who had no business teaching kids

In almost every single tackle that occurs in the game, players attempt to wrap the ball up and almost never is a result of that forceful, direct contact to the head

Papalii wasnt trying to wrap the ball up. He was trying to put a shot on. And he got it wrong... maybe players should stop trying to put big shots on and simply focus on a good, clean tackle.
 

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