The Manchester United thread

[boxhead]

Jonny Evans is the Almunia of defenders.

Here's another one WireMan, and Is say HL is pretty spot on.

 

[WireMan]

They are quotes, not examples...

He is the Almunia of defenders? Does that even actually mean anything?
Oh i see, Evans was brought in as an understudy to a German fella, he has never had a good game, is in his 30's so won't improve and has been replaced by a young Polish lad. Yes, Evans is the Almunia of defenders... :roll:

Don't quote TT with regards to anything United, it will just be a fail.
Quote a Barca and an Arsenal fan instead. They watch United loads so will be able to identify who is doing what at the club. :lol:


We had just lost a game, so United fans critisise a player. But then you already said he cops more criticism than he deserves.
The Jason posts where he has a rant about Jonny then ends it with 'the rest were rubbish as well (except Rooney)' proves my/your point.



Both Rio Ferdinand, and Sir Alex think he is the best young defender at the club.
I'll go with my opinion and there thoughts. You can think what you like. Just don't get sucked in by the myth making with regards to Evans.

 

[boxhead]

They are quotes, not examples...

He is the Almunia of defenders? Does that even actually mean anything?
Oh i see, Evans was brought in as an understudy to a German fella, he has never had a good game, is in his 30's so won't improve and has been replaced by a young Polish lad. Yes, Evans is the Almunia of defenders... :roll:

Don't quote TT with regards to anything United, it will just be a fail.
Quote a Barca and an Arsenal fan instead. They watch United loads so will be able to identify who is doing what at the club. :lol:


We had just lost a game, so United fans critisise a player. But then you already said he cops more criticism than he deserves.
The Jason posts where he has a rant about Jonny then ends it with 'the rest were rubbish as well (except Rooney)' proves my/your point.



Both Rio Ferdinand, and Sir Alex think he is the best young defender at the club.
I'll go with my opinion and there thoughts. You can think what you like. Just don't get sucked in by the myth making with regards to Evans.

You asked for quotes and I gave you them. I gave you two examples as well, and anyone can see the long list of screw ups that he makes, whether it be mis-reads, ineffective tackles, poor clearances, poor heading, and so on.

I think the Almunia comparison is certainly justified and simple to understand. Both are players that shouldn't have been/be playing in their respective teams First XI; United does have big injury issues so I'll excuse that one.

:lol: Yeah because if I quote a range of individuals, including a mix of ManU and opposition fans, they must all be wrong. Get over yourself, aqua_duck and HL know quite a bit about football and their opinions are certainly validated when you consider that United are painted all over the Australian media and sports channels; I'd wager those two know more about United than a lot of their bandwagoners.
So you make an excuse by saying Jason Maher was merely over-reacting, but ignore the other two United fans I quoted? I said Evans gets some undeserved flak when he isn't the sole reason United play bad, but he was horrible against City and made one of the worst tackles I've seen that effectively snuffed out any glimmer of a chance United had.

When did both say that though? Phil Johes has wiped the floor with Evans this season. The only reason those two would have said it - dependent on whether they said it this season and when - is to give him a confidence boost so that he can lift his game. He gas put in some decent performances lately but will he keep it up?
I'll agree to that, I don't get sucked in by any myth about him, I've watched United quite a bit (more like had to) so its not like I'm wholly disqualified from commenting.

 

[WireMan]

You asked for quotes and I gave you them. I gave you two examples as well, and anyone can see the long list of screw ups that he makes, whether it be mis-reads, ineffective tackles, poor clearances, poor heading, and so on.

I think the Almunia comparison is certainly justified and simple to understand. Both are players that shouldn't have been/be playing in their respective teams First XI; United does have big injury issues so I'll excuse that one.

:lol: Yeah because if I quote a range of individuals, including a mix of ManU and opposition fans, they must all be wrong. Get over yourself, aqua_duck and HL know quite a bit about football and their opinions are certainly validated when you consider that United are painted all over the Australian media and sports channels; I'd wager those two know more about United than a lot of their bandwagoners.
So you make an excuse by saying Jason Maher was merely over-reacting, but ignore the other two United fans I quoted? I said Evans gets some undeserved flak when he isn't the sole reason United play bad, but he was horrible against City and made one of the worst tackles I've seen that effectively snuffed out any glimmer of a chance United had.

When did both say that though? Phil Johes has wiped the floor with Evans this season. The only reason those two would have said it - dependent on whether they said it this season and when - is to give him a confidence boost so that he can lift his game. He gas put in some decent performances lately but will he keep it up?
I'll agree to that, I don't get sucked in by any myth about him, I've watched United quite a bit (more like had to) so its not like I'm wholly disqualified from commenting.

Ok, you believe who you want. I will believe what i want.

Personally if i was new to the game and wanted to learn, i'd listen to the guy who has supported the team for 30 years, been a season ticket holder for many years and has seen many a defender coming through the ranks. If you want we could discuss the ability of the different players to read the game, passing, tackling, heading. The weaknesses of various players games (Smalling and Jones are also a long way from perfect at the mo). Maybe even throwing in speculation about the future of various players and the club.
Keeping it about United defenders in the United thread so no bias (Why i would be an Evans fan boy, when comparing him to Jones i don't know).


Or...
You can post smilies, wager others know more than 'bandwagon jumpers' (me?) and believe a 30 year old goalie who has always been rubbsh is the same as a 23 year old defender, who is learning of the best defenders around and has the obvious support of the greatest manager ever.

Whatever, its upto you.

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

Ok, you believe who you want. I will believe what i want.

Personally if i was new to the game and wanted to learn, i'd listen to the guy who has supported the team for 30 years, been a season ticket holder for many years and has seen many a defender coming through the ranks. If you want we could discuss the ability of the different players to read the game, passing, tackling, heading. The weaknesses of various players games (Smalling and Jones are also a long way from perfect at the mo). Maybe even throwing in speculation about the future of various players and the club.
Keeping it about United defenders in the United thread so no bias (Why i would be an Evans fan boy, when comparing him to Jones i don't know).


Or...
You can post smilies, wager others know more than 'bandwagon jumpers' (me?) and believe a 30 year old goalie who has always been rubbsh is the same as a 23 year old defender, who is learning of the best defenders around and has the obvious support of the greatest manager ever.

Whatever, its upto you.

I'd like to discuss football with him as well, who is he?

 

[WireMan]

I'd like to discuss football with him as well, who is he?

:lol:

Happy Christmas.

 

[boxhead]

Ok, you believe who you want. I will believe what i want.

Personally if i was new to the game and wanted to learn, i'd listen to the guy who has supported the team for 30 years, been a season ticket holder for many years and has seen many a defender coming through the ranks. If you want we could discuss the ability of the different players to read the game, passing, tackling, heading. The weaknesses of various players games (Smalling and Jones are also a long way from perfect at the mo). Maybe even throwing in speculation about the future of various players and the club.
Keeping it about United defenders in the United thread so no bias (Why i would be an Evans fan boy, when comparing him to Jones i don't know).


Or...
You can post smilies, wager others know more than 'bandwagon jumpers' (me?) and believe a 30 year old goalie who has always been rubbsh is the same as a 23 year old defender, who is learning of the best defenders around and has the obvious support of the greatest manager ever.

Whatever, its upto you.

 

[boxhead]

Ok, you believe who you want. I will believe what i want.

Personally if i was new to the game and wanted to learn, i'd listen to the guy who has supported the team for 30 years, been a season ticket holder for many years and has seen many a defender coming through the ranks. If you want we could discuss the ability of the different players to read the game, passing, tackling, heading. The weaknesses of various players games (Smalling and Jones are also a long way from perfect at the mo). Maybe even throwing in speculation about the future of various players and the club.
Keeping it about United defenders in the United thread so no bias (Why i would be an Evans fan boy, when comparing him to Jones i don't know).


Or...
You can post smilies, wager others know more than 'bandwagon jumpers' (me?) and believe a 30 year old goalie who has always been rubbsh is the same as a 23 year old defender, who is learning of the best defenders around and has the obvious support of the greatest manager ever.

Whatever, its upto you.

Uh huh. So I'll assume you ignored the fine details of my reply as most of what you posted was senseless, self-serving and conjectured garbage. Because all these thousands of fans that have voiced their opinions and those discussing football on this forum must all have less "dedication" and "experience" with football. Are they a collective consciousness of symbiotes sharing the singular appraisal of a player?
Because a manager supporting one of his players is a sure sign that he must be a great player. I recall Daniel Mortimer was backed by his coach as well. And Peter Crouch had the support of Mr Redknapp too.

Emoticons you mean? So your previous post didn't include them at all, nor have those in other threads?
Mate, I know United fans who have supported their team for multiple decades. But according to the tone of your last paragraph, I'm to believe most United fans think he is a great defender? Funny, because you would be wrong.
The Almunia comparison is still lost on you? This from the person that said Stoke were the English version of Bayern Munich? How hard can it be to grasp?

So he's learning off the best defenders around? You mean one of don't you? The correct diction would have been "some of the best defenders from previous seasons".
How about you stop with the "I have experience argument" because clearly after 30 years you still need Diego to hold your hand....oh, woops :lol:
I mean, how can anyone not see that a troll is obviously superior to Messi?
Err wait, I mean, yes, Johny Evans wipes the floor with Piqué.....
:sarcasm:

 

[WireMan]

Uh huh. So I'll assume you ignored the fine details of my reply as most of what you posted was senseless, self-serving and conjectured garbage. Because all these thousands of fans that have voiced their opinions and those discussing football on this forum must all have less "dedication" and "experience" with football. Are they a collective consciousness of symbiotes sharing the singular appraisal of a player?
Because a manager supporting one of his players is a sure sign that he must be a great player. I recall Daniel Mortimer was backed by his coach as well. And Peter Crouch had the support of Mr Redknapp too.

Emoticons you mean? So your previous post didn't include them at all, nor have those in other threads?
Mate, I know United fans who have supported their team for multiple decades. But according to the tone of your last paragraph, I'm to believe most United fans think he is a great defender? Funny, because you would be wrong.
The Almunia comparison is still lost on you? This from the person that said Stoke were the English version of Bayern Munich? How hard can it be to grasp?

So he's learning off the best defenders around? You mean one of don't you? The correct diction would have been "some of the best defenders from previous seasons".
How about you stop with the "I have experience argument" because clearly after 30 years you still need Diego to hold your hand....oh, woops :lol:
I mean, how can anyone not see that a troll is obviously superior to Messi?
Err wait, I mean, yes, Johny Evans wipes the floor with Piqué.....
:sarcasm:

Fine detail? If you say so.

Which bandwagon jumpers?

The Almunia reference wasn't lost on me. Its just a stupid one that makes zero sense. It was a throw away line which you have turned into some kind of fact. The stoke reference clearly went over your head though but is irelevant to a United thread.

Not discussing non United players/defenders in this thread, but if you insist try not to mention the one that was here, competing with Evans and was told he can leave as he wasn't going to make it..

Rio and Vidic were great last year. Again this year really, if you consider they have been injured recently. Rio looks like he is getting some form back after his injury and now Vidic has gone for the year but before that he was very good. Uniteds defence has been going alright though with a lot of rotations and an inexperienced goalie behind them.
So no, i mean the best defenders around. Thats why i wrote it.

i have supported United for 30 years, not Bremen (i would of thought thaty was obvious, guess not).
Welcome to the United thread, where United are discussed. Where Rooney is the key man at the club who has played right wing, left wing, up front, off the front man and centre mid for us this year. Why would i want to swap him for anyone?! We would of been screwed without him this year.

But anyways, i'm not going in circles. Its to close to Christmas for that. You can have your opinion. I'll stick to mine.

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

 

[boxhead]

Fine detail? If you say so.

Which bandwagon jumpers?

The Almunia reference wasn't lost on me. Its just a stupid one that makes zero sense. It was a throw away line which you have turned into some kind of fact. The stoke reference clearly went over your head though but is irelevant to a United thread.

Not discussing non United players/defenders in this thread, but if you insist try not to mention the one that was here, competing with Evans and was told he can leave as he wasn't going to make it..

Rio and Vidic were great last year. Again this year really, if you consider they have been injured recently. Rio looks like he is getting some form back after his injury and now Vidic has gone for the year but before that he was very good. Uniteds defence has been going alright though with a lot of rotations and an inexperienced goalie behind them.
So no, i mean the best defenders around. Thats why i wrote it.

i have supported United for 30 years, not Bremen (i would of thought thaty was obvious, guess not).
Welcome to the United thread, where United are discussed. Where Rooney is the key man at the club who has played right wing, left wing, up front, off the front man and centre mid for us this year. Why would i want to swap him for anyone?! We would of been screwed without him this year.

But anyways, i'm not going in circles. Its to close to Christmas for that. You can have your opinion. I'll stick to mine.

That's hardly fine detail.
Bandwagon jumpers? If you don't think a large quantity of United fans are merely bandwagoners then you musn't pay attention to other fans. Hell, a lady from Tyneside said she hated all the bandwagon United fans.

The Almunia line was funny and it makes sense because both players make terrible mistakes and are of a poor comparative quality. Oh right, you mean how Stoke are similar to FCB in play-style....no, finances....nope, roster...pfft, or anything else for that matter. It's relevant because it is as non-sensical as your perception makes the Almunia reference out to be.

:lol: Yeah, you mean the one that is a world class defender, a starter for the biggest and one of the richest clubs in the world, and won more trophies in a few years than Evans probably ever will?
Yeah, SAF made the right call there. 'Tell him he's dreaming!

Wow, so you even missed the fact that I wasn't referring to Vidic as one of the over-the-hill ones. Who else was I referring to as the sole top defender for United? I would've thought a United fan would be able to grasp that easily. Ferdinand is not what he used to be, he can't be considered world class any more than someone like Younes Kaboul.
:lol: So Rio, Evra, Jones, Smallinf and co are the best defenders around? I could make a long list of the defenders that are if a higher quality, your impotent attempts at over-rating them are too frequent to ignore.

:lol: Wow, so you try to insinuate I am idiot by apparently calling you a Bremen fan after highlighting a series of examples that do not give credit to your dedication to your team?
Yeah, but is Rooney better than Messi? I wouldn't trade Ledley King either, that doesn't mean I think he is the best defender in the world.

 

[WireMan]

I'll make this easy. As its my last post on the issue with you.

That's hardly fine detail.

That was in reference to you saying i missed fine detail. Of which there was none.

Bandwagon jumpers? If you don't think a large quantity of United fans are merely bandwagoners then you musn't pay attention to other fans. Hell, a lady from Tyneside said she hated all the bandwagon United fans.

You said you (and your mates) know more than bandwagon jumpers when in discussion with me. Therefore you are either implying i am some kind of bandwagon jumper, or its a pointless phrase. I thinking the latter.

The Almunia line was funny and it makes sense because both players make terrible mistakes and are of a poor comparative quality.

Comparative to who? Evans isn't as good as Rio and Vidic? I agree with that. But he is young and learning. Almunia isn't. So as i said, i get the point, its just stupid.

Oh right, you mean how Stoke are similar to FCB in play-style....no, finances....nope, roster...pfft, or anything else for that matter. It's relevant because it is as non-sensical as your perception makes the Almunia reference out to be.

You just don't get it, and its irrelevant to this thread.

:lol: yeah, you mean the one that is a world class defender, a starter for the biggest and one of the richest clubs in the world, and won more trophies in a few years than Evans probably ever will?
Yeah, SAF made the right call there. 'Tell him he's dreaming!

Yeah, the one who played for United and was alowed to leave as he wasn't going to make it at United. He was to slow.

Wow, so you even missed the fact that I wasn't referring to Vidic as one of the over-the-hill ones. Who else was I referring to as the sole top defender for United? I would've thought a United fan would be able to grasp that easily. Ferdinand is not what he used to be, he can't be considered world class any more than someone like Younes Kaboul.

You know Ferdinand has been struggling with a back injury yeah?
Comparing to Kaboul? meh.

:lol: So Rio, Evra, Jones, Smallinf and co are the best defenders around? I could make a long list of the defenders that are if a higher quality, your impotent attempts at over-rating them are too frequent to ignore.

Ferdinand and Vidic were awesome last year. Loads of clean sheets, especially away in Europe. This year, the second best defence in the league dispite a load of injuries. Both first choice defenders injured at times.
You could try to make a list. But you would put Kaboul in it and i'd stop reading so i would not waste your time if i were you.

:lol: Wow, so you try to insinuate I am idiot by apparently calling you a Bremen fan after highlighting a series of examples that do not give credit to your dedication to your team?
Yeah, but is Rooney better than Messi? I wouldn't trade Ledley King either, that doesn't mean I think he is the best defender in the world.

You mentioned 30 years and Diego holding hands? Or do you mean a different Diego? Forlan?


Anyways. Whatever.

 

[Jason Maher]

In other news, nice 5-0 win this morning. Giggs scored, maintaining his record of scoring in every Premier League season. Absolute bloody legend, even if he is basically a back up player these days.

 

[WireMan]

In other news, nice 5-0 win this morning. Giggs scored, maintaining his record of scoring in every Premier League season. Absolute bloody legend, even if he is basically a back up player these days.

The way we are going he is no longer a back up player.

Both Jones and Young went of injured. Jones took an elbow to the jaw but we await X rays to see the problem.

He started right back, and Valencia will probably go back to cover, unless Rio is back then Smalling will go out there again.

Other than that, very good win at a ground we often struggle at (no wins in 3 previous attepts) so 5-0 is very pleasing.

The defence is still sound, and now Welbeck is back from injury we have started scoring. The last two goals from last night are worth watching. A Rooney screamer, and and Berba flick.

 

[boxhead]

I'll make this easy. As its my last post on the issue with you.



That was in reference to you saying i missed fine detail. Of which there was none.



You said you (and your mates) know more than bandwagon jumpers when in discussion with me. Therefore you are either implying i am some kind of bandwagon jumper, or its a pointless phrase. I thinking the latter.



Comparative to who? Evans isn't as good as Rio and Vidic? I agree with that. But he is young and learning. Almunia isn't. So as i said, i get the point, its just stupid.



You just don't get it, and its irrelevant to this thread.



Yeah, the one who played for United and was alowed to leave as he wasn't going to make it at United. He was to slow.



You know Ferdinand has been struggling with a back injury yeah?
Comparing to Kaboul? meh.



Ferdinand and Vidic were awesome last year. Loads of clean sheets, especially away in Europe. This year, the second best defence in the league dispite a load of injuries. Both first choice defenders injured at times.
You could try to make a list. But you would put Kaboul in it and i'd stop reading so i would not waste your time if i were you.




You mentioned 30 years and Diego holding hands? Or do you mean a different Diego? Forlan?


Anyways. Whatever.

Sure. That works for me.
Well you ignored quite a few of the points I made because they completely contradicted your argument, so it's understandable you would miss the details.
You sound like a bandwagoner or a fan that knows very little about what he discusses. Just because someone is a dedicated fan does not mean they will jump ship when the craft falters. That and many bandwagoners have NFI about United and wouldn't even know about players in the reserves and youth team of their club.

Funny that, it's pretty clear to everyone else. And it was a throw-away line but it isn't wholly inappropriate, which was the point I was making. If Evans learns not to be as bad as he is then maybe it won't be warranted. That still happens to be in the balance.
It's relevant because it is yet another example of your inability to properly and correctly depict another club, and it is also relevant because it is hypocritical of you to have a whinge about such a reference when others you yourself have made have had far less substance or thought in them, even compared to that Almunia reference.

:lol: What, are you implying he wasn't good enough and still isn't to have made it at your club? If he could make it at Barcelona, he could have made it at United. Too slow :lol: How about you watch him play first, or will you choose not to because by implication it appears you believe United must be the best club to measure defenders against, when Piqué plays in a team that utilizes fullbacks as wingers and is very susceptible to quick counter-attacks. Funny how most United fans probably wish they had kept Piqué.

Sure he has a back injury. Ledley King has a chronic knee problem and is consistently one of the best defenders in the EPL when he plays, they don't use that injury as an excuse for his performances.
Kaboul was a name that popped in mind and I was obviously implying that as Kaboul isn't considered world class, neither is Ferdinand, which he isn't anymore.

:lol: Someobe who has no idea what I was talking about when I referenced Kaboul. Despite the fact he has been great this season, that was not the point I was making. You say last year when talking about Ferdinand when clearly I have referred to this season, although he was past it last year and , to make it worse, you keep bringing up Viduc as if I didn't say he was still world class.
You want a list?
Pique, Puyol, Lucio, Silva, Kompany, Richards, Sagna, Vermaelan, Samuel, Alves, Albiol, Arbeloa, Ramos, Marcelo, Carvalho, Hummels, Subotic, Lahm, Maicon, and etcetera. All better than United's defenders, bar Vidic who is up there with the best in the world.

What? I am sorry, I do not understand unrelated gibberish. You go on about other teams when it's clear you don't even know your own that well; your appraisal of other teams and their players does not meet the standard of someone who just wrote a whole post harping on about how dedicated he is. That is meaningless and I thought that was obvious.

 

[WireMan]

Sure. That works for me.
Well you ignored quite a few of the points I made because they completely contradicted your argument, so it's understandable you would miss the details.
You sound like a bandwagoner or a fan that knows very little about what he discusses. Just because someone is a dedicated fan does not mean they will jump ship when the craft falters. That and many bandwagoners have NFI about United and wouldn't even know about players in the reserves and youth team of their club.

Funny that, it's pretty clear to everyone else. And it was a throw-away line but it isn't wholly inappropriate, which was the point I was making. If Evans learns not to be as bad as he is then maybe it won't be warranted. That still happens to be in the balance.
It's relevant because it is yet another example of your inability to properly and correctly depict another club, and it is also relevant because it is hypocritical of you to have a whinge about such a reference when others you yourself have made have had far less substance or thought in them, even compared to that Almunia reference.

:lol: What, are you implying he wasn't good enough and still isn't to have made it at your club? If he could make it at Barcelona, he could have made it at United. Too slow :lol: How about you watch him play first, or will you choose not to because by implication it appears you believe United must be the best club to measure defenders against, when Piqué plays in a team that utilizes fullbacks as wingers and is very susceptible to quick counter-attacks. Funny how most United fans probably wish they had kept Piqué.

Sure he has a back injury. Ledley King has a chronic knee problem and is consistently one of the best defenders in the EPL when he plays, they don't use that injury as an excuse for his performances.
Kaboul was a name that popped in mind and I was obviously implying that as Kaboul isn't considered world class, neither is Ferdinand, which he isn't anymore.

:lol: Someobe who has no idea what I was talking about when I referenced Kaboul. Despite the fact he has been great this season, that was not the point I was making. You say last year when talking about Ferdinand when clearly I have referred to this season, although he was past it last year and , to make it worse, you keep bringing up Viduc as if I didn't say he was still world class.
You want a list?
Pique, Puyol, Lucio, Silva, Kompany, Richards, Sagna, Vermaelan, Samuel, Alves, Albiol, Arbeloa, Ramos, Marcelo, Carvalho, Hummels, Subotic, Lahm, Maicon, and etcetera. All better than United's defenders, bar Vidic who is up there with the best in the world.

What? I am sorry, I do not understand unrelated gibberish. You go on about other teams when it's clear you don't even know your own that well; your appraisal of other teams and their players does not meet the standard of someone who just wrote a whole post harping on about how dedicated he is. That is meaningless and I thought that was obvious.

Righto, i sound like a bandwagon jumper because i disagree with you. Whatever.


I ignore points that are not United related. Take them to the main.


I am going to explain the Pique think once more time as its xmas.
He was at United. Therefore i did see him play, in both reserves and first team. He and Evans were the two up and coming defenders. Rio and Vidic were the first choice. Pique was told he could go as he was never going to be first choice over Rio and Vidic as his attributes were all wrong to make it in the prem. He has the turning circle of an oil tanker, is a very slow defender, and often got caught out of position. His favorite trick was to try and run in front of an attacker to get the ball but then get turned as he was to slow in anticipating the move. Then he would be left chasing back, which he couldn't do.

Now in Spain especially playing for Barca he does not need these attributes as much, as the structure of the team and league is different. In Spain attacks develop slower, so having dicipline to keep the shape is more fundamental than in England where its a much faster game. This means he can cover the fact he is to slow as the attacks don't get to him as fast. The fact that he is very good on the ball, and a composed defender has not hurt his career either and he fits nicely in at Barca.

However he was let go and Evans was kept on. Which says that maybe some people thought Evans has some skill in defending. His problems can and will be ironed out with experience. He has the same faults Rio had at an early age. If you think he is kept on, just because he came through the youth, take a look at the amount of ex united reserves in the league. We do not keep them, as we want them to have a career elsewhere if they won't make it. For example, Rossi at Villareal, Pique at Barca and more than likely Macheda in the near future.

 

[WireMan]

In other news, Jones did not break his cheek bone so should be alright for boxing day against the pie eaters.

Some good news on the injury front at last.

He will prob go into midfield to give Giggs a rest. Unless Rio is still out then he will be right back.

 

[boxhead]

Righto, i sound like a bandwagon jumper because i disagree with you. Whatever.


I ignore points that are not United related. Take them to the main.


I am going to explain the Pique think once more time as its xmas.
He was at United. Therefore i did see him play, in both reserves and first team. He and Evans were the two up and coming defenders. Rio and Vidic were the first choice. Pique was told he could go as he was never going to be first choice over Rio and Vidic as his attributes were all wrong to make it in the prem. He has the turning circle of an oil tanker, is a very slow defender, and often got caught out of position. His favorite trick was to try and run in front of an attacker to get the ball but then get turned as he was to slow in anticipating the move. Then he would be left chasing back, which he couldn't do.

Now in Spain especially playing for Barca he does not need these attributes as much, as the structure of the team and league is different. In Spain attacks develop slower, so having dicipline to keep the shape is more fundamental than in England where its a much faster game. This means he can cover the fact he is to slow as the attacks don't get to him as fast. The fact that he is very good on the ball, and a composed defender has not hurt his career either and he fits nicely in at Barca.

However he was let go and Evans was kept on. Which says that maybe some people thought Evans has some skill in defending. His problems can and will be ironed out with experience. He has the same faults Rio had at an early age. If you think he is kept on, just because he came through the youth, take a look at the amount of ex united reserves in the league. We do not keep them, as we want them to have a career elsewhere if they won't make it. For example, Rossi at Villareal, Pique at Barca and more than likely Macheda in the near future.

That wasn't at all what I was saying but entertain that if you wish.
Arguments carry over into unrelated threads commonly.

Fair points regarding Piqué but your previous assertions and your tone indicate to myself and others that you feel Jonny Evans and Rio Ferdinand are superior defenders to Piqué. He's not a turtle and he is a far better tackler and decision-maker than either of them at this stage in their careers. If Evans could make it at United then Piqué could have and would have as well. And the argument that he had to develop elsewhere, while certainly valid, is not an excuse to say Evans and Rio must therefore be better defenders than him, which is untrue. Kevin-Prince Boateng has begun to shine at Milan but never really kicked on at Spurs either. Do I think less of him because of that? No. John Terry and Ferdinand are hardly swift and yet are still two of the best defenders in the EPL over the past decade.
You sound like someone that can't admit that the one that got away would walk into your team. Pique was a Barcelona junior though, remembering. Cesc is a better example. Another Barcelona junior, left to develop and further his career, then he returned and now plays regularly in the team with the most dominant midfield in world football (albeit appearing quite a few times as a centre forward).
You referenced Piqué with disdain before. My inclination is that you feel he wouldn't fit into the EPL.
The speed argument is also rather ironic considering how well Ledley King handles the EPL.
You also seem to be ignoring that Piqué has developed his game beyond what you suggest was a player that got in the face of the opposition with little respect for defensive structure and was thus consistently caught out.

If you weren't making such a point though, I apologise.

 

[Habitual Linestepper]

They are quotes, not examples...

He is the Almunia of defenders? Does that even actually mean anything?
Oh i see, Evans was brought in as an understudy to a German fella, he has never had a good game, is in his 30's so won't improve and has been replaced by a young Polish lad. Yes, Evans is the Almunia of defenders... :roll:

See you're reading too much into here.

It means they're both accidents waiting to happen.

You got the bolded part right though.

 

[WireMan]

That wasn't at all what I was saying but entertain that if you wish.
Arguments carry over into unrelated threads commonly.

Fair points regarding Piqué but your previous assertions and your tone indicate to myself and others that you feel Jonny Evans and Rio Ferdinand are superior defenders to Piqué. He's not a turtle and he is a far better tackler and decision-maker than either of them at this stage in their careers. If Evans could make it at United then Piqué could have and would have as well. And the argument that he had to develop elsewhere, while certainly valid, is not an excuse to say Evans and Rio must therefore be better defenders than him, which is untrue. Kevin-Prince Boateng has begun to shine at Milan but never really kicked on at Spurs either. Do I think less of him because of that? No. John Terry and Ferdinand are hardly swift and yet are still two of the best defenders in the EPL over the past decade.
You sound like someone that can't admit that the one that got away would walk into your team. Pique was a Barcelona junior though, remembering. Cesc is a better example. Another Barcelona junior, left to develop and further his career, then he returned and now plays regularly in the team with the most dominant midfield in world football (albeit appearing quite a few times as a centre forward).
You referenced Piqué with disdain before. My inclination is that you feel he wouldn't fit into the EPL.
The speed argument is also rather ironic considering how well Ledley King handles the EPL.
You also seem to be ignoring that Piqué has developed his game beyond what you suggest was a player that got in the face of the opposition with little respect for defensive structure and was thus consistently caught out.

If you weren't making such a point though, I apologise.

Pique has improved at Barca, the problem with his game though was one that would be exposed in the prem. If he was at United he would still not be first choice. With Smalling and Jones coming through (assuming we still would of bought them) its unlinkely he ever would be.

I always said Pique left because he was deemed to not having the game to make it at United. Evans is still here. So it shows that maybe he is not quite as bad as everyone says he is.

There is no guarantee that Pique would make it just because Evans could. Just like there is no guarantee that if Pique can get into Barcas team then Evans would make it there.

Its hard to compare two different leagues, with different cultures, challenges, players and demands. Pique has the game to play for Barca. But Barca plays in a league that requires different attributes. Especially in the defence where these differences are clearer.


I actually want all ex United players to have a good career, its good watching united youngsters doing well. That goes for Pique/Rossi/Richardson/Eagles whoever.

See you're reading too much into here.

It means they're both accidents waiting to happen.

You got the bolded part right though.

oh i see. Apologies.

Evans has time on his side though, and recently getting back to his early career form. Not so worried anymore.