The off contract thread 2025

[yy_cheng]

That is true. Which plays into the Clubs desperation.

It all comes down to who has more leverage. At this point in time Parra probably has the leverage over Moses.

If Parra did not have the upper hand - Moses would have signed elsewhere by now.

I don't agree. Moses can sit and wait as he has an option for next year.

If parra doesn't up their offer, moses can wait until the exercise date of his option.

He can then exercise his option and wait for offers for 2025

There aren't any halves around so he is in the box seat not parra.

I don't doubt he prefers to stay at parra.

If parra had the leverage, he wouldve signed already

 

[Gary Gutful]

If Parra were desperate he would have signed already. I like that we aren’t throwing a shitload of cash at him. He isn’t worth it.

 

[Cloeel]

I don't agree. Moses can sit and wait as he has an option for next year.

If parra doesn't up their offer, moses can wait until the exercise date of his option.

He can then exercise his option and wait for offers for 2025

There aren't any halves around so he is in the box seat not parra.

I don't doubt he prefers to stay at parra.

If parra had the leverage, he wouldve signed already

How does that benefit Moses sitting and waiting?

Do you think the Bulldogs and Tigers will happily sit around in no mans land with north of 1m offers? Moses is only as valuable as what the competition are prepared to offer at any given time.

If he exercises his option with Parra then we do not need to increase the $$ for season 2024; as part of a Moses contract extension. It allows us to get an additional year of Moses; in his prime. Age is now a factor for Moses. No matter what happens in 2023 and 2024 in terms of form/injuries; Moses will be 2 years older.

Parra are not desperate for an established half. We have a 22 year old who will be another year matured into his role. If Moses exercises his 2024 option this gives us 2 years to either recruit or create a suitable number 6 or 7.

What indicators are there currently that Moses has the leverage? Moses has 3 x Million dollar offers (1 being Parra) with both of them being significantly higher than ours. Yet he still has not signed elsewhere. Moses has made it very clear he wants to remain at Parramatta - Moses will then need to make concessions financially.

This is good Business from Parramatta - even if Moses leaves.

 

[Avenger]

If Parra were desperate he would have signed already. I like that we aren’t throwing a shitload of cash at him. He isn’t worth it.

Realistically he is worth about $800k. Anything over is too much. However our offer is the least of the 3 which tells me that we are no longer push overs.

 

[hineyrulz]

How does that benefit Moses sitting and waiting?

Do you think the Bulldogs and Tigers will happily sit around in no mans land with north of 1m offers? Moses is only as valuable as what the competition are prepared to offer at any given time.

If he exercises his option with Parra then we do not need to increase the $$ for season 2024; as part of a Moses contract extension. It allows us to get an additional year of Moses; in his prime. Age is now a factor for Moses. No matter what happens in 2023 and 2024 in terms of form/injuries; Moses will be 2 years older.

Parra are not desperate for an established half. We have a 22 year old who will be another year matured into his role. If Moses exercises his 2024 option this gives us 2 years to either recruit or create a suitable number 6 or 7.

What indicators are there currently that Moses has the leverage? Moses has 3 x Million dollar offers (1 being Parra) with both of them being significantly higher than ours. Yet he still has not signed elsewhere. Moses has made it very clear he wants to remain at Parramatta - Moses will then need to make concessions financially.

This is good Business from Parramatta - even if Moses leaves.

Moses does make us a stronger team, but I agree I think he is replaceable. His kicking game is elite but that’s the only thing that is. He is a good game manager but hardly a great one. I doubt he has the money ball for a million dollar plus half. If he stays great but I wouldn’t get into a bidding way for him.

 

[hineyrulz]

If Parra were desperate he would have signed already. I like that we aren’t throwing a shitload of cash at him. He isn’t worth it.

I agree with the Debbie Downer, 80k reasons to agree with you Debbie.

 

[King-Gutho94]

Moses does make us a stronger team, but I agree I think he is replaceable. His kicking game is elite but that’s the only thing that is. He is a good game manager but hardly a great one. I doubt he has the money ball for a million dollar plus half. If he stays great but I wouldn’t get into a bidding way for him.

Yeah spot on.



The main issue is if we lost moses who would be replacing him. A decent halfback is hard to find and the young ones aren't getting coached correctly which is why less are coming through atm.

 

[Cloeel]

Yeah spot on.



The main issue is if we lost moses who would be replacing him. A decent halfback is hard to find and the young ones aren't getting coached correctly which is why less are coming through atm.

That is always going to be a problem. Until it is fixed.

Maybe we can use losing Moses as a kick up the arse for better developing not only young halves but all positions. Creating pathways so that we are not at the mercy of every player putting us to the sword.

If we want to be the best we need to create an organisation that is proactive and not reactive. Bending over to Moses' apparent demands is reactive and makes us no better than for example the Knights and Kalyn Ponga.

 

[yy_cheng]

That is always going to be a problem. Until it is fixed.

Maybe we can use losing Moses as a kick up the arse for better developing not only young halves but all positions. Creating pathways so that we are not at the mercy of every player putting us to the sword.

If we want to be the best we need to create an organisation that is proactive and not reactive. Bending over to Moses' apparent demands is reactive and makes us no better than for example the Knights and Kalyn Ponga.

This i agree with but it isn't going to be fixed in a couple of years.

Jnr. Rcg. Hodgo and even guth and Moses are closer to the end of their careers.

So this is why i rate moses important to winning the comp for us.

If he goes at the end of 2024 we have 2 bites at the cherry before everyone is past their peak.

It will be interesting to watch the dogs and the tigers and see how long it will take them to be a chance of winning in the gf.

After 2 years, we'll be in that position

 

[Cloeel]

This i agree with but it isn't going to be fixed in a couple of years.

Jnr. Rcg. Hodgo and even guth and Moses are closer to the end of their careers.

So this is why i rate moses important to winning the comp for us.

If he goes at the end of 2024 we have 2 bites at the cherry before everyone is past their peak.

It will be interesting to watch the dogs and the tigers and see how long it will take them to be a chance of winning in the gf.

After 2 years, we'll be in that position

The urgency to improve the pathways will not progress as quickly without a landmark moment like Moses leaving.

This forces the club to make change and further invest resources.

Sometimes you need to rip the bandaid off to generate change.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

The main issue is if we lost moses who would be replacing him. A decent halfback is hard to find and the young ones aren't getting coached correctly which is why less are coming through atm.

Dylan Brown is only 22. He will surely continue to improve.

 

[hindy111]

Moses does make us a stronger team, but I agree I think he is replaceable. His kicking game is elite but that’s the only thing that is. He is a good game manager but hardly a great one. I doubt he has the money ball for a million dollar plus half. If he stays great but I wouldn’t get into a bidding way for him.

Cleary makes him look like a kid when it comes to game management

 

[hindy111]

This i agree with but it isn't going to be fixed in a couple of years.

Jnr. Rcg. Hodgo and even guth and Moses are closer to the end of their careers.

So this is why i rate moses important to winning the comp for us.

If he goes at the end of 2024 we have 2 bites at the cherry before everyone is past their peak.

It will be interesting to watch the dogs and the tigers and see how long it will take them to be a chance of winning in the gf.

After 2 years, we'll be in that position

GUTHERSON will play 2023 at 28. He doesn't rely on explosive speed that any dissapear. Id say while he is fit he will be of a similar level. It isn't like hand eye coordination goes at 31.
I reckon he will stay of a similar level for 4 more seasons.
Props are different. I think we'll see a drop off from both come 2025 and by 2026 we need to be looking for new ones. But we won't be the only side trying to replace players. I mean JWH is 4.5yrs years older then both our props. Almost 5yrs older then Jnr. Yes he has slowed down but he still is NRL level.

How will the DOGS be in 2026? Kikau Will be 31. Will he be what he is now? JAC will be turning 31 that year. Again what level will he be? Fariner Mariner will be retired. Pangaea will be closing in on 30. And then will Reed be a super start they expect? Also Burton who looks the goods is still wildy inconsistent. I reckon top sides will knuckle down on him more now they have a stronger squad and take him more seriously. Weak sides can get away with top sides treating them lightly.

 

[yy_cheng]

GUTHERSON will play 2023 at 28. He doesn't rely on explosive speed that any dissapear. Id say while he is fit he will be of a similar level. It isn't like hand eye coordination goes at 31.
I reckon he will stay of a similar level for 4 more seasons.
Props are different. I think we'll see a drop off from both come 2025 and by 2026 we need to be looking for new ones. But we won't be the only side trying to replace players. I mean JWH is 4.5yrs years older then both our props. Almost 5yrs older then Jnr. Yes he has slowed down but he still is NRL level.

How will the DOGS be in 2026? Kikau Will be 31. Will he be what he is now? JAC will be turning 31 that year. Again what level will he be? Fariner Mariner will be retired. Pangaea will be closing in on 30. And then will Reed be a super start they expect? Also Burton who looks the goods is still wildy inconsistent. I reckon top sides will knuckle down on him more now they have a stronger squad and take him more seriously. Weak sides can get away with top sides treating them lightly.

I agree with your assessment on Guth and he'll probably transition to the halves. He could probably make a good hooker too. As hodgo retires, Guth could play hooker and we find a upcoming young fullback.

I think we put too much in our 2 props who are similar in age and could prevent us getting high quality replacement props as the money is already in Jnr and RCG. We should've kept one and found a younger one who is on an upward spiral. You mention about JWH, we could have 2 on the books in the future.

But the argument is whether we should try and retain Moses or let him go. He is the elder of our halves and we have a younger half already signed. Is there a replacement if Moses goes? Especially before this pack gets too old and slows down. Will JA and Dyl keep this team a premiership threat?

I still think JA will be found out badly in defense when teams start to study him. He doesnt play enough minutes for teams to do that just yet. However, Nathan Cleary watches every football game and he already spotted his weakness in his lateral defense. The upside is that JA is young and he will definitely work on his game so hopefully he can overcome that but physical attributes like speed may not be improved that much more.

I mentioned the Dogs and TIgers as it will be interesting how they go and how long it will take them to become premiership threats. We could be down that path in 2-3 years time

 

[Cloeel]

I mentioned the Dogs and TIgers as it will be interesting how they go and how long it will take them to become premiership threats. We could be down that path in 2-3 years time

If we are anything like the shambles the Tigers and Bulldogs have been in recent years - it is a leadership issue.

All these "marquee" signings the Tigers and Bulldog have made are sugar hits to appease fans and generate a spike in short term immediate success. They have paid overs to attract players from stronger teams.

I have no doubt the Tigers and Bulldogs will improve to some extent this up coming season (especially early on) - However will it be sustainable? We all abide by the same salary cap. If you are over spending in certain positions; other positions will naturally be weaker - does someone like Kikau negate potential weaknesses in there outside backs? Does Spending 900k of TPJ come across as an intelligent buy?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Did I already do the one about Penisini envy?

Off contract (i.e. uncontracted for 2024)
Blake
Nrown
Cartwright
Greig
Hodgson (club option)
Loizou
Moses (player option)
Ogden (club option)
Rein
Simonsson (player option)
Sivo

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Also, mods would you merkins please remove 2022 from the thread title or update it to 2023?

 

[the phantom menace]

Or start a new thread, with a fresh title?

 

[the phantom menace]

Looking at these players' ages this year (added below - taken from your squad succession thread, with adjustments for players under options), I was surprised how old Blake is/will be... not much room for improvement, and decline probably imminent.

Hopefully Waqa's already been told not to expect an extension, and might be a candidate for early release during 2023 (if it's somehow favourable to us)?

Off contract (i.e. uncontracted for 2024)
Blake (29)
Nrown (30)
Cartwright (29)
Greig (24)
Hodgson (club option) (34)
Loizou (21)
Moses (player option) (29)
Ogden (club option) (27)
Rein (33)
Simonsson (player option) (25)
Sivo (30)

 

[yy_cheng]

Looking at these players' ages this year (added below - taken from your squad succession thread, with adjustments for players under options), I was surprised how old Blake is/will be... not much room for improvement, and decline probably imminent.

Hopefully Waqa's already been told not to expect an extension, and might be a candidate for early release during 2023 (if it's somehow favourable to us)?

Off contract (i.e. uncontracted for 2024)
Blake (29)
Nrown (30)
Cartwright (29)
Greig (24)
Hodgson (club option) (34)
Loizou (21)
Moses (player option) (29)
Ogden (club option) (27)
Rein (33)
Simonsson (player option) (25)
Sivo (30)

I'mmore concerned about how old our pack will get in 2 years time


2025
Utility: Brown, Gutherson (31)
Fullback: -
W/C: Dunster (26), Penisini (23)
Half: -
Hooker: -
Edge forward: Lane (31), Mataele (23), Matterson (31)
Middle: Campbell-Gillard (32), Paulo (32)

2026
Utility: Brown*
Fullback: -
W/C: -
Half: -
Hooker: -
Edge forward: Lane (32), Matterson (32)
Middle: Paulo (33)