The Rumours Thread

[baggygreen man]

Organising the defensive line from FB

Yes this is of prime importance but too oft neglected. You feel Ramsay does it better. Agree re Sloans catching. I wince when he lets the ball bounce, not the only one tho in the NRL. Yes he does switch off a bit and his defense needs work. Now his good points:
vision, ball in hand skill, pace and step. Those you dont teach, the others are fundamentals that a good coach should have been teaching him.

 

[Vic Mackey]

Far out. Those were two shocking attempts at tackle. Even more concerning, we already have two middle forwards that don't mind the old arm grab in Blake Lawrie and Jack Bird. Is this a common occurence in his game?

Sadly yes, we had actually been well on top that game, then his two missed tackles completely swung it and manly ran riot. Thats what I mean he is so frustrating. He’ll go from running over the top of Origin forwards like they’re bowling pins to missing regulation tackles on opposition fullbacks in the space of a few minutes.

 

[baggygreen man]

Yes this is of prime importance but too oft neglected. You feel Ramsay does it better. Agree re Sloans catching. I wince when he lets the ball bounce, not the only one tho in the NRL. Yes he does switch off a bit and his defense needs work. Now his good points:
vision, ball in hand skill, pace and step. Those you dont teach, the others are fundamentals that a good coach should have been teaching him.

Sloan was given only a handful of games, one a shocker on a miserable, wet day with a slippery ball. So what does the coach do, give him another match. No he dumps him. Imagine how that knocks the confidence of a youngster still finding his way. Not only did Griffin never accept that the conditions aided his poor game, but did he ever factor in that Sloan may have been nervous as it was his first run of top grade footy.

 

[Illusion]

Sloan was give only a handful of games, one a shocker on a miserable, wet day with a slippery ball. So what does the coach do, not give him the confidence with another match. No he dumps him. Imagine how that knocks the confidence of a youngster still finding his way. Not only did Griffin never accept that the conditions aided his poor game, but did he ever factor in that Sloan may have been nervous as it was his first run of top grade footy.

Completely different from the young half from Souths , was having a shocker against us , the coach replaced him at half time , but would have worked on it at training and was back in first grade the next game and has continued to improve ..... If he had dropped him for the rest of the season like our bloke , how would he have improved , with his confidence shattered ...... And he is playing in a key position ......

 

[Old Timer]

Yes this is of prime importance but too oft neglected. You feel Ramsay does it better. Agree re Sloans catching. I wince when he lets the ball bounce, not the only one tho in the NRL. Yes he does switch off a bit and his defense needs work. Now his good points:
vision, ball in hand skill, pace and step. Those you dont teach, the others are fundamentals that a good coach should have been teaching him.

Yes they are all natural gift +’s as you say but the -‘s can be coached and if the player doesn’t learn them then you have another Dufty or Rein or Aitken and we are not the only club to have them.
By all means quote the +’s but get back to me when the -‘s start to diminish because then we might have a worthy FB on our hands.

 

[Gareth67]

No.
I’ll go against the grain.
I for one am very happy with Ramsey at fullback. One of the very few shining lights this year.

Plus his heart bleeds red and white , we need more players like him .

 

[Gareth67]

Musgrove was all the rage a few seasons back , a big man , opponents would stay down after he tackled them , he had plenty of potential .

With the right man coaching him he would once again hit the heights , but I don’t believe that Griffin is the one to do it .

 

[possm]

I am seething by the inaction of our BOD not offering Sloan the same courtesy as Sully by telling him he is wanted for the future.. just be a little patient. Looking more and more like there is no love lost between the precociously talented 20 year old and this coach. Griffin is so out of touch he is in another universe.

I doubt it has anything to do with Griffin. The BOD is preparing the way for Dean Young and it wants to have as much cash as possible to spend on the forward pack. Even under Bennett, Sloan will take some time to lift his defensive skills to NRL/Bennett level.

 

[dragon thomo]

I am with you Gareth in regards to Ramsey. I rate him as a footballer.
I also believe Sullivan and Sloane have not been given a descent go at first grade especially Sullivan.
Griffin wants to stick with boring football with high completion rate.
Thus not giving Sullivan or Sloane to which have natural talent game time..
The top sides have proven you have to play football and let your more skilled players show their talent to break down opposition defences.
The Dragons will not be competetive until we have a coach that let's his players express their talent.

 

[possm]

Sloan was given only a handful of games, one a shocker on a miserable, wet day with a slippery ball. So what does the coach do, give him another match. No he dumps him. Imagine how that knocks the confidence of a youngster still finding his way. Not only did Griffin never accept that the conditions aided his poor game, but did he ever factor in that Sloan may have been nervous as it was his first run of top grade footy.

Well there it is, when I played, if I made two big mistakes like that, even in wet conditions, I would have expected to be dropped but would try my guts out to impress in reserve grade until selected again. You can be sure I would have learned from that experience.

But like Difty, some players do not learn and don't seem to worry about poor performance.

 

[Dragsters]

One of the most frustrating players in our team. There’s been games where he was genuinely the best prop of the field against Origon reps (i.e Easter monday v Paulo/RCG) then the next week he’ll play the weakest game you’ve ever seen. Against manly DCE and Turbo isolated him for about 4 line breaks in 7 minutes, it was under 7s stuff. Check out their first 2 tries below, and he had literally just come on the field


The guys an absolute monster and it kills me that he isn’t the beast he should be week in week out. At times his defence is plain embarrassing. Apparently you guys went pretty hard for him last time so the contract we gave him is a decent one.

I wouldn’t be hugely fussed if he left, however he is the type of guy that in the right system could become a pretty good player.

I always thought Musgrove had heaps of potential, a bit in the mould of Tapine, who was very inconsistent for a number of years but has now hit his straps and reached his potential through consistent effort.

This is not uncommon for young forwards and is probably more the norm.

Perhaps a change of clubs is what Musgrave needs to fire?

 

[redandwhite4evr]

They should have sacked Griffin end of this season after two failed campaigns. Nonsense to give him 10 matches next season to determine weather he stays or goes. Too late then. Too disruptive and will kill any form while a new coach settles in. This same scenario proved a disaster at the Tigers with Madge the culprit there.

Don't have to go to the Tigers for proof BG man- we already have a precedent with Mary's ridiculous and inexplicable extension.

 

[Old Timer]

I am with you Gareth in regards to Ramsey. I rate him as a footballer.
I also believe Sullivan and Sloane have not been given a descent go at first grade especially Sullivan.
Griffin wants to stick with boring football with high completion rate.
Thus not giving Sullivan or Sloane to which have natural talent game time..
The top sides have proven you have to play football and let your more skilled players show their talent to break down opposition defences.
The Dragons will not be competetive until we have a coach that let's his players express their talent.

All the constant blaming of Hook re Bud is really people not facing reality

Bud had injuries at key moments if the season

Hunt has had his best year ever at the club at 7

So it was either 6 or 9 and 9 was never the answer as it would be far too physical long term.

 

[Dragon David]

Completely different from the young half from Souths , was having a shocker against us , the coach replaced him at half time , but would have worked on it at training and was back in first grade the next game and has continued to improve ..... If he had dropped him for the rest of the season like our bloke , how would he have improved , with his confidence shattered ...... And he is playing in a key position ......

Sloan was given only a handful of games, one a shocker on a miserable, wet day with a slippery ball. So what does the coach do, give him another match. No he dumps him. Imagine how that knocks the confidence of a youngster still finding his way. Not only did Griffin never accept that the conditions aided his poor game, but did he ever factor in that Sloan may have been nervous as it was his first run of top grade footy.

So true Illusion and Baggers. I think Hook said to Sloan that "you played shit" and that was that. Hook did not give him any encouraging words which would have gone a long way with understanding what he needed to do. Ended up in Ressies with no mentoring. I'm sure that Sloan was practising a lot but he also would have needed someone to help with his confidence which as a young kid is something that is essential.

Yes, Griffin gave Sloan a couple of chances late last year and a couple at the start of this year, but I think his overall treatment of him after the Sharks game in particular was the straw that might now be breaking the camel's back.

These things happen a lot to players when expectations are high of them. Some get encouragement like Ilias of Souths did from JD and now Ilias is playing a preliminary final and might make it to the GF.

I realise that Ramsey has taken the bull by the horns and has made a big improvement and understandably should be the full back at the Dragons. So the door was open for Ramsey and closed on Sloan and whatever happens to him, I wish him luck.

 

[Vic Mackey]

I always thought Musgrove had heaps of potential, a bit in the mould of Tapine, who was very inconsistent for a number of years but has now hit his straps and reached his potential through consistent effort.

This is not uncommon for young forwards and is probably more the norm.

Perhaps a change of clubs is what Musgrave needs to fire?

Id compare him more to a JWH as opposed to Tapine who uses footwork and has a great offload. Zane is a 'run it straight and hard' type of prop. When he does it well he's probably a top 10 prop, however his worst games are absolutely horrible. If a coach/club can tap into what it is that brings out his best and get him to do it consistently then you've got a top quality forward on your hands.

 

[Dragsters]

Id compare him more to a JWH as opposed to Tapine who uses footwork and has a great offload. Zane is a 'run it straight and hard' type of prop. When he does it well he's probably a top 10 prop, however his worst games are absolutely horrible. If a coach/club can tap into what it is that brings out his best and get him to do it consistently then you've got a top quality forward on your hands.

Agreed.

The Tapine comparison was more in respect of unrealised potential and inconsistent form and that Tapine has realised his potential whereas Musgrave is yet to...

 

[Cupper]

Hahahahaaa what?

Since when did ANY of our centres or edges get early ball?

I’m not talking about our current centres or edges. D Fifita is a HUGE improvement on all of them

 

[baggygreen man]

if the player doesn’t learn them

Wont learn anything if Sloan is not trained out of his flaws. Did Griffin and assistant give him any personal training after his shocker like the Rabbits coach gave his young half who also had a shocker against us bout same time. And was he sacked next game. No. Their coaching staff had faith in their kid. Sloan is a sh** coach.

 

[baggygreen man]

as opposed to Tapine who uses footwork and has a great offload. Zane is a 'run it straight and hard' type of prop.

We need someone with skills like Tapine. We already have sufficient 'run it straight and hard' types.

 

[possm]

So true Illusion and Baggers. I think Hook said to Sloan that "you played shit" and that was that. Hook did not give him any encouraging words which would have gone a long way with understanding what he needed to do. Ended up in Ressies with no mentoring. I'm sure that Sloan was practising a lot but he also would have needed someone to help with his confidence which as a young kid is something that is essential.

Yes, Griffin gave Sloan a couple of chances late last year and a couple at the start of this year, but I think his overall treatment of him after the Sharks game in particular was the straw that might now be breaking the camel's back.

These things happen a lot to players when expectations are high of them. Some get encouragement like Ilias of Souths did from JD and now Ilias is playing a preliminary final and might make it to the GF.

I realise that Ramsey has taken the bull by the horns and has made a big improvement and understandably should be the full back at the Dragons. So the door was open for Ramsey and closed on Sloan and whatever happens to him, I wish him luck.

In my opinion, whoever breaks an NRL contract should be compelled to pay out that contract and that payment to be calculated within the salary cap:
Of the gaining club if the player terminates the contract.
Of the losing club if the club terminates his contract.

If a Club and player mutually agree to terminate a contract, both the losing club and the gaining club shall equally share the remaining value of the contract as a cost in their salary cap.

I believe that such a policy would decrease the number of B/rK contracts terminated.