The Swamp I

[TRANSLATION]

The name should of been the Illawarra Dragons or St George Steelers. That is how the other merger names went. Northern Eagles and Wests tigers. One team has their region name, the other has the mascot name.

You obviously dont know much about Stgeorge Dragons or the history.

The Illawarra Club and Board agreed to the changes. That's good enough for us.

They are Called Stgeorge ILLAWARRA Dragons.

or did you not know that. ??

 

[Benny]

The name is St George Illawarra Dragons and thats what it should be

St George held all the aces as in they would/could of survived with or without the merger, if you look back at the reports with the criteria St George were in fact ranked 12th or higher from memory

So basically all Illawarra had to offer was a potential supporter base and region full of sponsors, an awesome junior nursery and a healthy debt.

If things were equal then yes Illawarra Dragons or St George Steelers would have been fair but as i said things were far from equal

Least we didn't do what Manly did, sign an agreement with Norths which meant if the merger broke down the licence would revert back to Manly who over a number of years just bled the merger and are now Manly again!

 

[Roosterphin]

The name is St George Illawarra Dragons and thats what it should be

St George held all the aces as in they would/could of survived with or without the merger, if you look back at the reports with the criteria St George were in fact ranked 12th or higher from memory

So basically all Illawarra had to offer was a potential supporter base and region full of sponsors, an awesome junior nursery and a healthy debt.

If things were equal then yes Illawarra Dragons or St George Steelers would have been fair but as i said things were far from equal

Least we didn't do what Manly did, sign an agreement with Norths which meant if the merger broke down the licence would revert back to Manly who over a number of years just bled the merger and are now Manly again!

Dont you think supplying most of the players that led to a Grand Final appearance is a healthy enough contribution. I mean you can have all the money but without players??

 

[Benny]

I believe of the top 25 13 were St George and 12 were Illawarra

Grand Final Team

Patten - Illawarra
Blacklock - Saints
Timmins - Illawarra
McGregor - Ilawarra
Ainscough - Saints
Mundine - Saints
Barrett - Illawarra
Liekvoll - Illawarra
Brown - Saints
Smith - Illawarra
Thompson - Saints
Tracy - Saints
Bartrim - Saints

Starting side 7 Saints and 6 Illawarra

Ward - Saints
Pearson - Saints
Wishart - Illawarra
McKay - Illawarra

So thats 9 saints and 8 Illawarra

Doesn't sound like a majority to me!

 

[bender]

No, Manly qualified for the licence in their own right and were awarded the licence. They then gave it away to Northern Eagles. St George did not qualify for a licence. They merged so that they could get a licence (as did Illawarra). Neither could sign the agreement for it to revert back to them because they did not have the licence in the first place (Same goes for Wests and Balmain).

I didnt think that St George as a stand alone club was even mentioned in the criteria final rankings because they and Illawarra merged so early. (does anyone have any proof otherwise). I am also fairly certain that they were unlikely to make the 14 if it went to the criteria. At one stage they even looked to a Melbourne relocation out of desperation didnt they?

 

[Benny]

The rankings came out in the Daily Telegraph

All clubs were included St George, Illawarra, Wests, Manly, Balmain and Norths

St George made the cut!

 

[TRANSLATION]

I believe of the top 25 13 were St George and 12 were Illawarra

Grand Final Team

Patten - Illawarra
Blacklock - Saints
Timmins - Illawarra
McGregor - Ilawarra
Ainscough - Saints
Mundine - Saints
Barrett - Illawarra
Liekvoll - Illawarra
Brown - Saints
Smith - Illawarra
Thompson - Saints
Tracy - Saints
Bartrim - Saints

Starting side 7 Saints and 6 Illawarra

Ward - Saints
Pearson - Saints
Wishart - Illawarra
McKay - Illawarra

So thats 9 saints and 8 Illawarra

Doesn't sound like a majority to me!

Benny.. That's the end of the Story. you beat him with One Blow.

Well Done.

He came here thinking he could upset Dragons fans. LOL.

He should find a Illawarra Section, and have a go in there.. Idiot.

 

[Benny]

Its not hard to beat these clowns SIM

Facts are facts and can't be disputed, though they try

They're entitled to their opinions - be it wrong!

 

[Simon]

The merger probably did well for both clubs. Illawarra got to survive and still have a NRL team play in the area and the Dragons got access to a large junior base. Both parties were happy with the agreement and over time everyone has come to accept it. The only people who have a problem with the merger are (words I can't say) from other clubs who try to stir the pot amongst our own supporters. Worry about your own club and their administrators trying to control the whole league, not petty issues that haven't surviced for a few years about the St George Illawarra Dragons.

 

[Anonymous]

We saved the Illawarra region from not having a top class football team, we pay all the bills and pay for the juniors to be produced

They get more home games than Sydney...they get more than a fair deal matey!

Please get your facts right Benny boy

He did his facts right. You're the one with poor knowledge on the subject. I'd back Benny's information against yours any day of the week.

btw, Trent Barrett is from Temora.
Get your facts right. :lol:

Good on you Willow..... :roll:

btw I KNOW Barrett is from Temora......

Then why did you agree that he was from Illawarra? Slipped your mind perhaps? :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

I didnt think that St George as a stand alone club was even mentioned in the criteria final rankings because they and Illawarra merged so early. (does anyone have any proof otherwise). I am also fairly certain that they were unlikely to make the 14 if it went to the criteria. At one stage they even looked to a Melbourne relocation out of desperation didnt they?

uhhh, no. Wrong again.

As Benny mentioned, Saints made the cut.
Its the first I've heard of relocating to Melbourne.

With the greatest respect, the quality of a good debate is measued by the research. You guys havent made the slightest attempt to back up anything you say with facts.

Its all just waffle and the stuff you hear while getting tanked up the local pub. The peanuts in the bar have more credibility than the some of the rubbish I'm reading here.

In simple terms, the joint venture was good for both the St George and Illawarra districts. We had to fight to get Kogarah back but the balance is almost right now.

The jersey and name issue was worn out ages ago. Blind freddy can tell you that the St George jersey and the name 'Dragons' are far more marketable than the Ilawarra Steelers. Don't fall over in shock to learn that a lot of Rugby League is about money.

The end result is that we have games being played in St George and Wollongong. There was chance that there would be no first grades games in Wollongong. The joint venture sees WIN Stadium as a home ground for at least the next two years. Also, the South Coast's junior playing stocks would have been divided up across the NRL. The joint venture was a good move to stop this from happening.

 

[bender]

uhhh, no. Wrong again.

As Benny mentioned, Saints made the cut.

Where do you say Saints finished in the criteria ranking? Actually to jolt my memory, which clubs did rank where. Are you sure that StGeorge werent exempt from the criteria, like Brisbane and Auckland were.

Its the first I've heard of relocating to Melbourne.

Actually, this may have preceded the criteria, but make no mistake, a relocation to Melbourne was considered (and rejected). Just like the Easts merger. Saints were always a successful club but at the time of the criteria they were never a powerhouse in terms of finances or crowd support. Certainly not the way that Canterbury and Manly were. When the criteria was announced, they were definitely in line for the chop. Now in hindsight, I would say that they would have stood alone, but when Saints merged, Manly and Norths would have both been considered a better bet to make the 14 than Saints. If Saints had tried to stand alone, there is no doubt that they would be dwelling around the cellars with souths (if they did survive).

Actually, not much different to where they are now. :lol:

[/quote]

With the greatest respect, the quality of a good debate is measued by the research. You guys havent made the slightest attempt to back up anything you say with facts.

Its all just waffle and the stuff you hear while getting tanked up the local pub. The peanuts in the bar have more credibility than the some of the rubbish I'm reading here.

In simple terms, the joint venture was good for both the St George and Illawarra districts. We had to fight to get Kogarah back but the balance is almost right now.

The jersey and name issue was worn out ages ago. Blind freddy can tell you that the St George jersey and the name 'Dragons' are far more marketable than the Ilawarra Steelers. Don't fall over in shock to learn that a lot of Rugby League is about money.

The end result is that we have games being played in St George and Wollongong. There was chance that there would be no first grades games in Wollongong. The joint venture sees WIN Stadium as a home ground for at least the next two years. Also, the South Coast's junior playing stocks would have been divided up across the NRL. The joint venture was a good move to stop this from happening.[/quote]

I agree that the Merger was good and sensible and have not attacked either side. But, I just think that Illawarra St George is so much more sensible and fitting than St George Illawarra. By the way you forgot to argue that Illawarra got to keep their colours since both sides were red and white. In the long term, I think an Illawarra relocation should be the aim, but it might be a while before the city grows (I assume it is a growing city). I have been impressed with the way the Penrith club has grown and i think that in 10 - 20 years time The Dragons will be an Illawarra club.

 

[Anonymous]

uhhh, no. Wrong again.

As Benny mentioned, Saints made the cut.

Where do you say Saints finished in the criteria ranking? Actually to jolt my memory, which clubs did rank where. Are you sure that StGeorge werent exempt from the criteria, like Brisbane and Auckland were.

Not sure what you mean. Saints were not going to be cut from the League...it was in the news at the time. I think the press release said that the JV would 'ensure the future of St George and Illawarra' and this may have left people with the incorrect impression that Saints didnt meet the criteria.

Its the first I've heard of relocating to Melbourne.

Actually, this may have preceded the criteria, but make no mistake, a relocation to Melbourne was considered (and rejected). Just like the Easts merger.

If it was in the news it didnt run for long.
Do you think you might be getting it mixed up with the Adelaide proposal?

I read you other stuff later Bender... about to get cut off at the internet knees.

 

[Follow Me Up To Carlton]

I agree that the Merger was good and sensible and have not attacked either side. But, I just think that Illawarra St George is so much more sensible and fitting than St George Illawarra. By the way you forgot to argue that Illawarra got to keep their colours since both sides were red and white. In the long term, I think an Illawarra relocation should be the aim, but it might be a while before the city grows (I assume it is a growing city). I have been impressed with the way the Penrith club has grown and i think that in 10 - 20 years time The Dragons will be an Illawarra club.

The Dragons maybe, never St George.

But what your saying doesn't make sense – If the Illawarra region could support their own club then surely it would be called the Illawarra Steelers? And saying that the Dragons should relocate to Wollongong kind of makes your whole 'Illawarra identity' argument redundant – why would a region, if given a viable choice choose a St George Dragons identity over a local Illawarra one? Makes no sense…

 

[Anonymous]

Saints were always a successful club but at the time of the criteria they were never a powerhouse in terms of finances or crowd support.

They werent getting the same crowd support as they were in the 60s or 70s but the crowd support in the 90s was greater than it was in the 80s. Not sure what the point is though because it happens to all teams. The Bronco's crowds are down on what they were ten years ago.

Certainly not the way that Canterbury and Manly were.

Well I dispute that. In any case, Manly are hardly a financial powerhouse anymore.

When the criteria was announced, they were definitely in line for the chop.

I dont think so. I remember reading some hogwash in 1996 that Saints were destined for the Metropolitan League but that was during the SL war. Saints made the grand final that year.

Now in hindsight, I would say that they would have stood alone, but when Saints merged, Manly and Norths would have both been considered a better bet to make the 14 than Saints. If Saints had tried to stand alone, there is no doubt that they would be dwelling around the cellars with souths (if they did survive).

lol.. how do you know that? :lol:

Actually, not much different to where they are now. :lol:

Nothing like backing up a statement of pure fantasy with a statement of pure fiction. :lol:

I agree that the Merger was good and sensible and have not attacked either side. But, I just think that Illawarra St George is so much more sensible and fitting than St George Illawarra.

As I said, its more marketable to utilise the St George heritage. For better or worst, that's the reality of sport.

 

[Simon]

Just for all you people that said St George couldn't stand alone when they merged. Just recently the Daily Telegraph published a story on Leagues clubs that could survive and pay the same amount to their NRL clubs with the new poker machine tax. There were only a few and St George Leagues was one of those. This virtually means we could of stayed alone. Secondly St George is the mose supported club within NSW, another reason why we could of stayed alone. I know that comment will cause a lot of people to say BS but just ask around you either hate us or you support us. And lastly when Super League came into existance they wanted St George to move to Melbourne. The club never considered this proposal and signed with the ARL. All this talk about the club considereing moving to Melbourne is again BS.

 

[Roosterphin]

I believe of the top 25 13 were St George and 12 were Illawarra

Grand Final Team

Patten - Illawarra
Blacklock - Saints
Timmins - Illawarra
McGregor - Ilawarra
Ainscough - Saints
Mundine - Saints
Barrett - Illawarra
Liekvoll - Illawarra
Brown - Saints
Smith - Illawarra
Thompson - Saints
Tracy - Saints
Bartrim - Saints

Starting side 7 Saints and 6 Illawarra

Ward - Saints
Pearson - Saints
Wishart - Illawarra
McKay - Illawarra

So thats 9 saints and 8 Illawarra

Doesn't sound like a majority to me!

This is hilarious.

Blacklock - Roosters
Ainscough - Newcastle
Treacy - Newcastle
Bartrim - Gold Coast
Ward - heaps of other clubs

All had played first grade elsewhere? Only Thompson, Mundine and Brown were true saints juniors

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

Jeez Roosterphin, you really need to get a life.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Biscuits]

I believe of the top 25 13 were St George and 12 were Illawarra

Grand Final Team

Patten - Illawarra
Blacklock - Saints
Timmins - Illawarra
McGregor - Ilawarra
Ainscough - Saints
Mundine - Saints
Barrett - Illawarra
Liekvoll - Illawarra
Brown - Saints
Smith - Illawarra
Thompson - Saints
Tracy - Saints
Bartrim - Saints

Starting side 7 Saints and 6 Illawarra

Ward - Saints
Pearson - Saints
Wishart - Illawarra
McKay - Illawarra

So thats 9 saints and 8 Illawarra

Doesn't sound like a majority to me!

This is hilarious.

Blacklock - Roosters
Ainscough - Newcastle
Treacy - Newcastle
Bartrim - Gold Coast
Ward - heaps of other clubs

All had played first grade elsewhere? Only Thompson, Mundine and Brown were true saints juniors

If you want to start quoting where they all broke into first grade for christs sake know what you are talking about.
Ainscough-Wests
Mackay-As big a saints junior as they come.

 

[Anonymous]

This is hilarious.

Blacklock - Roosters

It is hilarious.
He's from Tingha and played virtually all his football with Saints.

He did play 5 games off the bench for Roosters and ofcourse Tingha is an outer suburb of Paris. :lol: :lol: :lol: