Thoughts on society.....

[ozbash]

lol, they were, i lived in tennessee ave, mangere

 

[imported_pastor-borderline]

Fleming out..... I lived all over South Auckland, but spent most of my time haunting Dawson Rd...one side of the road was Otara and the other side was Manakau. I lived in Otara BTW...get it...tracks....there literally are tracks between the schools......it's a cliche....arghh, forget about it

 

This message has been deleted by the manager or assistant manager.

 

[imported_pastor-borderline]

One Eye... Respected member??.... See last post

 

[Willow]

I'm deleting posts that make a mess of the message board. I'm not talking about one off posts because they soon slip into the next page but if it happens consistently, it buggers up the whole the thread.

This means long lines in large caps. The content doesn't worry me but having to constantly scroll across gave me the shits and after a while I lost patience with it.

Oneye: You know its cool as long as you quit with the dominating lettering in caps. Try again.

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

Willow mate, its little point, i think most of us know its a forum member taking the piss, and to be honest, its not funny. Your just ruining your name even more, and you are looking like a real tosser in the process.

If you want to contribute with stupidity, well fine, we are all for it, but your just making yourself look bad at the moment

Moffo

 

[imported_pastor-borderline]

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

Sorry, stupidity (in the 2nd paragraph)should be replaced with intelligent posts

Moffo

 

[CanadianSteve]

For the atheists: Here is an excerpt from a Christian tract or leaflet I have from years ago. The writer is describing handing out leaflets on a streetcorner and encountering an atheist.:

"Save it " she said. "I'm an atheist. "

"Really?", I asked. "Swear to God", she replied, and we both laughed.
"May I ask you a question then," I said. "Sure, go ahead."

"Can you give me any hard, cold evidence for the non-existence of God?"
"Yeah," she said, thinking. "I'm a realist. I believe in what's sensible and mature. I believe in facts."
"No good," I replied. "Hard, cold evidence, remember/"
" OK. I don't believe in what I can't see. Since I can't see God, then He doesn't exist."
"So tell me, do you believe in wind?"
"I believe in wind," she parried, "because I can see what it does. I can see the evidence of it all around me."
I looked up at the sky and the stars. "Funny, that's one of the reasons I believe in God."

Did I prove to her that God exists? No, but then I didn't have to. It isn't encumbent on any of us (Christians) to prove that God exists. We need only demonstrate that He may exist; that there's no intelligent basis for believing categorically that He doesn't exist; that believing in God is no less reasonable than a patent denial. In fact, believing is more reasonable, for when it comes to mustering up evidence, "The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament shows His handiwork." (Psalm 19:1)

...And if we hold God accountable for what he does or allows to occur in our lives, then He must be holding us accountable for our actions or omissions as well. Uh-oh, that's no fun! Who wants to be accountable to a being who's not only bigger and stronger, but who knows better? How can we do what we want if there's a God who is telling us to walk in His ways? Rather than accept accountability, then, we say "There is no God."

 

[Willow]

Moffo, perhaps those universities skills are letting you down again... who are you talking to? me or our mate Oneye...?
May well Meth go

lol

 

[Willow]

Canadian Steve:
You've done it again mate.. Atheists can't convinced the brainwashed so why even try, eh?

There was a time when every leaflet carrying religious nut would approcah me in the street, in airports, bus stops... everywhere. They still knock on my door sometimes just after dawn and still infiltrate TV programming etc.... not much I can do about that. But for some reason the leaflets and Watchtower magazine holders give me a wide berth in public places now... must be because they know they are going to get told to f*ck off... no nonsense about it.

Now the Salvation Army officer who comes into place of work and hovers around the local pub is a completely different kettle of fish. He gets a warm welcome and a donation... and I even buy his magazine for the kids who like to do the puzzles. Although I'm an athiest, I'm also fully aware of when someone is putting in an honest days work. The Salvos arechampions imo... but the right wing fundamentalist nut-cases who hand out leaflets in the street are a waste of oxygen.

On a final note....
Tell me, giventhe logic of the leaflet you have read, lets have some cold hard evidence that Dragons never existed....

 

[CanadianSteve]

Willow, I wondered that myself, was Moffo really having a go at you like that? My guess is the first sentence was to you, and the rest was directed at Oneye. But we'll see if MFC clarifies.

 

[CanadianSteve]

Willow, in my #72 I was referring to your #70, about MFC's post #66. Just so we don't get confused.

Atheists can't convinced the brainwashed so why even try, eh? I feel the same way about you close-minded atheists. I used to be one too until my eyes were opened. But the answer is that Christians do try, because they care. And really, a leaflet or a tv program never hurt you, did it? Just say no, or turn it off.

I agree with you the Salvation Army do good work. Think about why they do it.

Dragons? Don't thousands of people watch them play every week?

 

[Kiwi]

I had someone knock on my door and they simply asked "have you found god?" They left quick smart when the only reply they got was

"You'd think a guy like him would have the decency to ring if he was gonna be late the bastard"

 

[Willow]

Steve, you completely sidestepped the crux of my post.

"But the answer is that Christians do try, because they care.."
An absolute generalisation which goes beyond reasonable reply. I don't know how anyone could say that and still keep think they have an open mind. Please tell me this was one of those dry jokes of yours.

"..a leaflet or a tv program never hurt you, did it? Just say no, or turn it off."
I do turn it off and you're right, I have never been hurt by a leaflet wielding nut. Thats because I knowwhere to tell them where to get off. But believe me, theyfocus on those who hesitate and bombard them with an impressive sales pitch.

If we're talking about good v evil, I'd say that the evil ones are those who try to indoctrinate individuals who are uncertain about themselves.

"I agree with you the Salvation Army do good work. Think about why they do it."
The Salvation Army help others and in most cases, expect nothing in return.
This is quite different frommisguided religious groups who are more interested in changing people's minds and enforcing their influence. The thought of offering ground-level assistance would scare the crap out of most of these street hawkers.
Refer back to my post when I said the Salvos do 'an honest days work'... I meant that literally.

Oh, and the Dragons myth... it can't be disproved and there is even hearsay 'evidence' to say that they existed. Same as gods and legends and other stuff.

 

[CanadianSteve]

"But the answer is that Christians do try, because they care.."
An absolute generalisation which goes beyond reasonable reply. I don't know how anyone could say that and still keep think they have an open mind. Please tell me this was one of those dry jokes of yours.

No. What I meant was that Christians do still try to convince others to become Christians (evangelize), even in the face of hostility such as yours. Why? Because they care about others. And because Jesus said to "go into all the world and preach the gospel..."

Now, you can take the viewpoint that the Salvation Army is doing more good by working with the poor rather than evangelizing. My sister-in-law went to Zaire about 10 years ago as a missionary nurse. (She stayed 3 years) By then the focus of mission work was to work with people who needed help, in her case with medical care, rather than preaching at them. I think the idea is to give a good example of Christianity at work, so the peole would become interested in the faith.

When you use words like misguided and indoctrinate, they are of course subjective terms which give a connotation I don't agree with.

On fire-breathing dragons: I don't think the evidence of their existence is very strong. I do think the evidence for God's existence, and the contents of the Bible, is strong. But that's a long discussion and I don't know if we want to go into it here.

But I do think it's wrong to dismiss Christianity as "fairy tales" and "myths". And I do think many atheists do believe deep down there is a higher power, they just don't want to be "accountable" to Him.

 

[Willow]

"No. What I meant was that Christians do still try to convince others to become Christians (evangelize), even in the face of hostility such as yours. Why? Because they care about others. And because Jesus said to "go into all the world and preach the gospel...""

Ineverinitiated hostility towards anyone. I did however find myself with no other option but tell people people to f*ck off. I tried all the polite stuff but it didn't work because these people viewed any hesitation as a weakness and something to be exploited.

I can imagine them going back to their home base and praying for the souls of those who told them to get stuffed while at the same time claiming victory over those who they had converted... very creepy people.

"My sister-in-law went to Zaire about 10 years ago as a missionary nurse.."
Good on her. Sounds like a lovely person and someone who you are no doubt very proud of. She is not someone who I wouldeven begin to criticise and I dare say, she would be too busy to convert anybody.
But I will say that we don't have to be missionaries to help our neighbours. Indeed, acts of concern are not the domain of Christians or for that matter, any religious faction.

"On fire-breathing dragons: I don't think the evidence of their existence is very strong. I do think the evidence for God's existence, and the contents of the Bible, is strong. "
Well mate, if you think the Bible is fair dinkum then I think you should consider all faith as being equally credible. The Chronicles speak of Dragons, the Koran speaks of Allah, and others arejust Athiests.. except that Atheists use logic rather than faith to form an opinion.

"And I do think many atheists do believe deep down there is a higher power, they just don't want to be "accountable" to Him."
Oooooh... f*ck off!
I am accountable to many people but there is no way that I am accountable to someone who you have decided to be my higher power.

There is no greaterrelease than accepting that death brings freedom. The mind goes dead... the body decays and is returned to the earth.
There is nothingelse except for the life you have left behind... this beingour greatest legacy.

 

[imported_kier]

Atheism cannot be proven - it involves a leap of faith. As an atheist myself I'm more than prepared to accept that I've gone beyond what "cold hard evidence" alone can provide in terms of answers, and that I as such, have a faith too.

Bertram Russell stated that the application of pure logic to the problem of religion will only result in the result of agnosticism (literally meaning "I do not know").

Faith - in either direction - cannot be proven or disproven by evidence as faith is a standpoint that, by definition, goes beyong evidence.

 

[imported_E_A__]

I recommend everyone avoid this thread, it will give you a headache.

 

[CanadianSteve]

Well mate, if you think the Bible is fair dinkum then I think you should consider all faith as being equally credible. No, I don't think that follows. You can look at one faith and conclude that it is the truth, and others are made up by man.

I am accountable to many people but there is no way that I am accountable to someone who you have decided to be my higher power. That's your view. Of course my view, as a Christian, is not that I decided who the higher power is; rather that God is real. What you choose to feel about God is ultimately between you and Him.

There is no greaterrelease than accepting that death brings freedom. The mind goes dead... the body decays and is returned to the earth.
There is nothingelse except for the life you have left behind... this beingour greatest legacy.

If I thought that was true, I would think life was ultimately hopeless and pointless. The idea that there is something after death gives life hope and meaning, IMO.

I agree with Kier that atheism takes faith too.