Tim Moltzen ... (war is over)

[tumblingdice]

Not me, I have never spoken on a business level in all my years. The 'never trust a handshake' guys are way too clever for me.

But Chuckles, given past experience, I feel I should point out that I am being sarcastic.

WT have done everything wrong. Moltzen made a bird of it by bawling his eyes out. If you can't see that, go follow them. If you can't see the stupidity in defaulting on an agreement that sees a player playing less time for less money when a healthy three-year deal was on offer, then bugger me.

At least we agree that the Moltz is a doltz.

LOL@Moltz3n

Fair enough view. But maybe Moltzen felt that after he hit some form after he 'signed' with the dragons, he thought he could back himself next year and increase his worth even more for 2013 onwards, whether it be for WT or another team. Maybe over confidence and a gamble but he must belive in himself. And dont you worry, all the posts about teams thinking twice about signing him, all they will actually do is spend 5 minutes more and get one more bit of paper then your organisation could be bothered doing, like choc says, thats all. Or maybe he just really just decided he doesn't want to go to Saints, and is willing to give up some folding stuff upfront, sacrificing some money for personal happiness. Its not like he was going from rags to riches. Or maybe he just played Saints, used you as an option and bargaining tool and got an upgraded contract on the sly anyway. Or maybe a bit of everything. Either way, its LOL@Saints.

 

[getsmarty]

Fair enough view. But maybe Moltzen felt that after he hit some form after he 'signed' with the dragons, he thought he could back himself next year and increase his worth even more for 2013 onwards, whether it be for WT or another team. Maybe over confidence and a gamble but he must belive in himself. And dont you worry, all the posts about teams thinking twice about signing him, all they will actually do is spend 5 minutes more and get one more bit of paper then your organisation could be bothered doing, like choc says, thats all. Or maybe he just really just decided he doesn't want to go to Saints, and is willing to give up some folding stuff upfront, sacrificing some money for personal happiness. Its not like he was going from rags to riches. Or maybe he just played Saints, used you as an option and bargaining tool and got an upgraded contract on the sly anyway. Or maybe a bit of everything. Either way, its LOL@Saints.

You Sir are a Fool....Go troll somewhere else...

 

[Willow]

after he 'signed' with the dragons

No 'signed' in commas, he put ink to paper.

The rest of your post just fell into a heap.

FYI, it's a big river in Egypt.

 

[Minh]

LOL@5ouffs and LOL@Tim get it right. Timid Tim has tarnished his name along with the rest of his Tigers stooges. No big loss anyways.

 

[Minh]

Kyle Stanley first crack at fullback hopefully.

 

[Father Ted]

Fair enough view. But maybe Moltzen felt that after he hit some form after he 'signed' with the dragons, he thought he could back himself next year and increase his worth even more for 2013 onwards, whether it be for WT or another team. Maybe over confidence and a gamble but he must belive in himself. And dont you worry, all the posts about teams thinking twice about signing him, all they will actually do is spend 5 minutes more and get one more bit of paper then your organisation could be bothered doing, like choc says, thats all. Or maybe he just really just decided he doesn't want to go to Saints, and is willing to give up some folding stuff upfront, sacrificing some money for personal happiness. Its not like he was going from rags to riches. Or maybe he just played Saints, used you as an option and bargaining tool and got an upgraded contract on the sly anyway. Or maybe a bit of everything. Either way, its LOL@Saints.

Or maybe he's suffering from one of the various forms of mental atrophy in which case I understand why he's staying at Wests.

 

[blacklock]

i know its unlikely...but the wording of the dragons reps have me worried. i hope they dont consider tim even after his contract is up.

on behalf of all the dragons fans i know personally....we dont want him period. not in 2012 nor 2013.

 

[Drain the Dragon]

It would be interesting to see a list of players, in the history of the game of rugby league, that have moved to another club without obtaining a written release from their existing club.

It's probably not available, because that list would be too long and too difficult to compile.

But if it were available, I'm sure there would be hundreds (if not thousands) of names on the list between 1908 and 2011.

But a list of those who have reneged after signing, you could count on one hand.

It appears that the age of the 'gentleman's agreement' is behind us.

Kinda sad. Thanks Tigers. At least we now know that the 'law of the jungle' is there in its place.

 

[gypsy]

It appears that the age of the 'gentleman's agreement' is behind us.

Spot on. It's a shame. The thing is, there are rules, and then there's the spirit of the game. Rugby league has been built around the second.

That's why things on the field like the crusher tackle, and cannonball tackle have been stamped out.
Although technically neither were offences, they just don't feel right and go against what our great game stands for.
Same with people taking dives, or staying down faking injury to get a penalty. This gets peoples back up because it's not being honest. League is one of few sports in the world where this sort of thing is more frowned upon than encouraged.

The same standards and honesty have carried over off the field into the way clubs have run since 1908, that's why when someone like Sonny Bill, Jamie Lyon or Moltzen go against that, it creates this controversy. Lets face it, Moltzen the footballer isn't worth 1% of all this fuss over the last few months, but the morals and principle behind it are.
To the Tigers minds, they believe they've done nothing wrong. To everyone with an idea, they've gone against a lot of the code on which our great game has been built.

 

[Bring back choc]

Further to this Chuckles, there is no sound business practice going on here at the WT end.

Think about it.

A player has turned his back on 3 years, a deal that would reportedly earn him $840,000 before tax. That's close enough to $5400 per week, and more than a lot of families could earn in 10 years.

Add the 'box seat' factor, ie the security of deal and the potential to set himself up for future contracts, then it looks very good indeed. But he said no.

His current employer (Wests Tigers) has risked a salary cap audit to keep a player for one year, a player they had previously shown the door.

Plus Moltz3n, Wests/Tigers and Tauber have been given a black mark across the board in the NRL business world.

To recover from this, the Moltz would have to play 10x better than Changa, Tauber would have to cure cancer and Humphreys will have to turn copper into gold. Otherwise, their names are mud.

How is this good business?

Gees There's a lot of wind in your willows....

We got played.
What ever way you look at it, WT never released the player.
We assumed this would happen. It didnt. Like it or not, WT do not have to issue the release.
Dragons know this. Thats why they dropped off. Thats just business mate.
At least try and have a fair view. I dont like it as much as anyone. But these are the facts.

The player agent is the person who should be held accountable. But what good is that to us..

Thanks for your time....windy.

 

[gypsy]

:lol: Windy and Chuckles. That has got Sitcom written all over it.

 

[Guvner]

Gees There's a lot of wind in your willows....

We got played.
What ever way you look at it, WT never released the player.
We assumed this would happen. It didnt. Like it or not, WT do not have to issue the release.
Dragons know this. Thats why they dropped off. Thats just business mate.
At least try and have a fair view. I dont like it as much as anyone. But these are the facts.

The player agent is the person who should be held accountable. But what good is that to us..

Thanks for your time....windy.

Nah, we dropped off because it became pointless trying to force a player that refused to play here to honor the contract. And that is exactly where it was going.

This goes to court and Tauber gets backed into a corner, Humpty and the Tigers have issues.

 

[Slippery Morris]

Does this mean in 2013, if Tim wants to play somewhere else bar the Saints, the Dragons have to provide a release as he is "Contracted" with the Dragons till 2014?

 

[Willow]

Gees There's a lot of wind in your willows....

That sits well with me, and never gets old. But you didn't come close to addressing the issue or answering the question.

How is it good business?

That seems to be your claim.

I'll put it in point form, as you seemed to miss the crux of the matter.

1. A player has turned his back on 3 years, a deal that would reportedly earn him $840,000.
2. Wests Tigers have risked a salary cap audit to keep a player for one year, a player they had previously shown the door.
3. Moltz3n, Wests/Tigers and Tauber have been given a black mark across the board in the NRL business world.
4. Plus add the compete indecisiveness, backflips and general shennighans coming out of Wests Tigers.

So chuckles, please enlighten us. How is this good business?

 

[Mr Red]

That sits well with me, and never gets old. But you didn't come close to addressing the issue or answering the question.

How is it good business?

That seems to be your claim.

I'll put in point form, as you seemed to miss the crux of the matter.

1. A player has turned his back on 3 years, a deal that would reportedly earn him $840,000.
2. Wests Tigers have risked a salary cap audit to keep a player for one year, a player they had previously shown the door.
3. Moltz3n, Wests/Tigers and Tauber have been given a black mark across the board in the NRL business world.
4. Plus add the compete indecisiveness, backflips and general shennighans coming out of Wests Tigers.

So chuckles, please enlighten us. How is this good business?

it would only be good business if Moltzen goes on to have a stellar season leading the tigers to the grand final...that would kinda justify their stance.

otherwise they have egg on their face.
legally they were always in the right... morally ethically and professionally they are a disgrace.

 

[DirtyHarry]

Gees There's a lot of wind in your willows....

We got played.
What ever way you look at it, WT never released the player.
We assumed this would happen. It didnt. Like it or not, WT do not have to issue the release.
Dragons know this. Thats why they dropped off. Thats just business mate.
At least try and have a fair view. I dont like it as much as anyone. But these are the facts.

The player agent is the person who should be held accountable. But what good is that to us..

Thanks for your time....windy.

How were we played?

We signed a player who wasn’t wanted while still under contract. Contracts aren’t worth anything, it goes on all the time & could have happened to anyone.

This episode simply highlights the inept nature of the current system, & the unethical practices of the low life scum Pussies & their averagely talented fullback, half, centre or whatever the hell he is.

 

[Willow]

it would only be good business if Moltzen goes on to have a stellar season leading the tigers to the grand final...that would kinda justify their stance.

otherwise they have egg on their face.
legally they were always in the right... morally ethically and professionally they are a disgrace.

It's not good business to gamble that hard.

Even if he plays well, it is still a high risk to turn your back on a high yield 3 year deal. Does anyone think he'll ever be worth more than $280K per year?

As said, he'd have to have a massive lift in form to justify the level of poor business practice. At best he's an alright player. Good, but not great.

If we are playing the market game, the more likely outcome is that Wests Tigers will use Moltz3n for year to fill a few gaps, then dump him. After that he'll go shopping around asking for peanuts because of recent events. The odds in a year from now suggest he'll be viewed as high maintenance.

Right now he looks like a player lacking maturity. It's very debatable if that perception will change over the next 6-12 months when he is looking for a new contract.

 

[DirtyHarry]

It's not good business to gamble that hard.

Even if he plays well, it is still a high risk to turn your back on a high yield 3 year deal. Does anyone think he'll ever be worth more than $280K per year?

As said, he'd have to have a massive lift in form to justify the level of poor business practice. At best he's an alright player. Good, but not great.

If we are playing the market game, the more likely outcome is that Wests Tigers will use Moltz3n for year to fill a few gaps, then dump him. After that he'll go shopping around asking for peanuts because of recent events. The odds in a year from now suggest he'll be viewed as high maintenance.

Right now he looks like a player lacking maturity. It's very debatable if that perception will change over the next 6-12 months when he is looking for a new contract.

^^ Yep agreed ^^

 

[Mr Red]

It's not good business to gamble that hard.

Even if he plays well, it is still a high risk to turn your back on a high yield 3 year deal. Does anyone think he'll ever be worth more than $280K per year?

As said, he'd have to have a massive lift in form to justify the level of poor business practice. At best he's an alright player. Good, but not great.

If we are playing the market game, the more likely outcome is that Wests Tigers will use Moltz3n for year to fill a few gaps, then dump him. After that he'll go shopping around asking for peanuts because of recent events. The odds in a year from now suggest he'll be viewed as high maintenance.

Right now he looks like a player lacking maturity. It's very debatable if that perception will change over the next 6-12 months when he is looking for a new contract.

agree 100%
he could get seriously injured half way through the season and thus the tigers will not renew his current deal which has 12 months left.
a 3 year deal as you have said probably paying more then he is worth would have been the smart thing to do in terms of financial security..

a lot of immaturity on his part for sure...

if a club basically stated that they didnt want me and allowed me to negotiate else where, there is no way in hell i would stay there when they changed their mind.... its obvious he is an after thought in their plans and i doubt this will ever change.

 

[Fingerbang]

What he needs is to ween himself off Benji's breast milk, and start to learn to function as an adult.