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Timana Tahu out, Joel Monaghan in for State of Origin II

guruminga

Juniors
Messages
567
Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but a few weeks back on the footy show they asked Sam Thaiday why he is having a good year, he said "I used to be a lazy black fella"

Why the need to reference the word "black"?

Big difference when someone is talking about themselves. No comparrison to this situation.
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
'black' and 'white' aren't really derogitory on their own either, more just un-PC. throw the C word in and it is derogitory though.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,394
I agree with what you have said. Johns' comment was completely inappropriate and out of line. But it wasn't said with intent to cause hurt or discriminatory. He is ignorant, but not racist.[/QUOTE]

And how in God`s name could you possibly know that? You are just assuming.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,394
Not my definition. Here are some others though...
rac·ism (r
amacr.gif
prime.gif
s
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z
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schwa.gif
m)
n. 1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

rac·ism (rā′siz′əm)

noun
  1. belief in or doctrine asserting racial differences in character, intelligence, etc. and the superiority of one race over another or others: racist doctrine also, typically, seeks to maintain the supposed purity of a race or the races
  2. any program or practice of racial discrimination, segregation, etc., specif., such a program or practice that upholds the political or economic domination of one race over another or others
  3. feelings or actions of hatred and bigotry toward a person or persons because of their race
Webster's New World College Dictionary Copyright © 2010 by Wiley Publishing, Inc., Cleveland, Ohio.
Used by arrangement with John Wiley & Sons, Inc.

Still fail to see how Joey's words fit the bill.[/QUOTE]


Definition number three.
 

Tank30

Juniors
Messages
776
Not my definition. Here are some others though...
rac·ism
n. 1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

rac·ism




noun
  1. belief in or doctrine asserting racial differences in character, intelligence, etc. and the superiority of one race over another or others: racist doctrine also, typically, seeks to maintain the supposed purity of a race or the races
  2. any program or practice of racial discrimination, segregation, etc., specif., such a program or practice that upholds the political or economic domination of one race over another or others
  3. feelings or actions of hatred and bigotry toward a person or persons because of their race
Webster's New World College Dictionary Copyright © 2010 by Wiley Publishing, Inc., Cleveland, Ohio.
Used by arrangement with John Wiley & Sons, Inc.

Still fail to see how Joey's words fit the bill.[/QUOTE]


Definition number three.

How is what he said showing hatred or bigotry??? FFS:crazy:
hatred
n a feeling of intense dislike; enmity

Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

And how in God`s name could you possibly know that? You are just assuming.

bigotry
n pl -ries the attitudes, behaviour, or way of thinking of a bigot; prejudice; intolerance

Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003
bigotry
obtuse or narrow-minded intolerance, especially of other races or religions.

Can you please point out the intolerance or way of thinking of a bigot in what he said AS I STILL FAIL TO SEE IT???

Was what he said offensive?? Yes. Was it racist?? NO. Is he an idiot for making a stupid throw away comment that may cause offense?? Yes. Does he deserve to be vilified from pillar to post for it? No.
 

fish eel

Immortal
Messages
42,876
It was racist.

The real world isnt in a dictionary.

He didnt just call Inglis a merkin.

He degraded him more by referring to his skin colour. He's not just a merkin, but a black merkin.

It's all about intent and context.
 

Maroubra Eel

Coach
Messages
19,044
But these are ethnicities as well as nationalities.

We call countries like this 'nation-states', and they have their own pros and cons compared to multicultural states (like Australia and New Zealand).

Strewth!! I have just been doing some reading about some nation states. You wouldn't want to be in a minority group in some of these countries.
 

sportive cupid

Referee
Messages
25,047
Itwas much more than racist.

It reflected a worrying attitude towards women as well.

Noone seems too worried about that though.
 

Suitman

Post Whore
Messages
55,837
It was racist.

The real world isnt in a dictionary.

He didnt just call Inglis a merkin.

He degraded him more by referring to his skin colour. He's not just a merkin, but a black merkin.

It's all about intent and context.

It's really sad that some people forget the actual meaning of this discussion.
Really sad. :?

Suity
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
77,042
T did a great thing. There are many who will unsuspectedly learn from this.
 

sportive cupid

Referee
Messages
25,047
I'm sure he wasn't.
I also doubrt he was actually thinking about the aboriginality of the opposition.
that's really the whole point though isn't it. Racism\sexism is so ingrained in some of us that we don't even really think about it.We just say it as a put down to someone without seeing what it is acually saying about our attitudes to someone ( women and indigenous people in this case)
 
Last edited:

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
I'm sure he wasn't.
I also doubrt he was actually thinking about the aboriginality of the opposition.
that's really the whole point though isn't it. Racism\sexism is so ingrained in some of us that we don't even really think about it.We just say it as a put down to someone without seeing what it is acually saying about our attitudes to someone ( women and indigenous people in this case)


I can understand the latter, as the C word is used just as a vulgar swear word to describe someone. Those who use it aren't using it in context with the female anatomy... but the term 'black' preceding it is different. Even though the term 'black' it self is not offensive, when someone uses it they know exactly what they're referring to.
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
Bartman, let me paint you a little scenareo for you and I want to know how you feel about this, lets say NSW win on Wednesday night and in the euphoria of the celebrations, certain NSW players get together without the players with indingenious and poly backround for a group photo...actually lets say for the sake of this discussion that there about 8 players of anglo saxon backround in the squad and have all got together for a group photo in the middle of the arena...

what would your reaction be??...
I probably wouldn't notice - people can get photos with who they want, their best mates or whatever reason. I don't think that's racist tbh, not like calling someone a black merkin and whatever was said about Folau's culture.

I was extremely offended by that incident also, they pushed anglo saxon players out, and invited Karmichael Hunt in (who is Maori) so if that's not discriminating black vs white, I don't know what is.

I was surprised that it didn't generate any media interest....

I'm sure plenty would be taken back by it, I really would like to see Barts thoughts on this, would this behaviour still be enough to turn your back on your state and club??
Well you've seen my thoughts... I wouldn't care which groups of players get their photos taken with each other. This is about Johns and what he said while he was a paid employee of the NSWRL. Should have been sacked imo, and I'm glad Parra are looking like sacking the racist merkin from his consultancy with us...

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...-assistant-coach/story-e6frexni-1225879885746

Parramatta to axe Joey Johns as an assistant coach





THE furore surrounding the Andrew Johns racism row continues to rage with Parramatta poised to sack the halfback of the century as a member of the Eels coaching staff.

The Daily Telegraph understands Parramatta power brokers are leaning strongly towards supporting Timana Tahu’s stance on stamping out racism in the NRL, with a decision possibly by the end of today.
(Unless I've missed the decision and it didn't go the way the Tele expected?)
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
A good story with a few more details of what Johns apparently said...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/15/2927682.htm
Race row deepens around Johns

Updated June 15, 2010 17:31:00
Ugly accusations: Timana Tahu's family said Johns used derogatory terms against players other than Greg Inglis. (AAP Image: Dean Lewins, file photo)




Andrew Johns has been accused of using terms such as "n****r" and "monkey" to describe indigenous rugby league players in the latest claims of racism against the besieged former league star.
Johns stepped down from his role as New South Wales assistant coach on Saturday, hours after it was revealed that star winger Timana Tahu had walked out on the Blues' camp in Kingscliff.
Tahu had taken offence to a racist remark Johns had made in relation to Queensland centre Greg Inglis, and the Blues were unable to stop him from leaving camp before mediation attempts were possible.
Johns apologised profusely for the initial comment, saying he was shattered to have offended his former Newcastle Knights premiership team-mate.
But in a statement last night Tahu said the comment was not an isolated incident.
Indigenous Rugby League Council board member Sol Bellear told ABC Local Radio in Brisbane today that he had spoken with senior members of Tahu's family at the weekend.
Bellear was told by the Tahu family that Johns had used a range of derogatory terms towards players of indigenous heritage, and Inglis was not the only target.
"Greg Inglis wasn't the only one who was sledged, [the one] he used those words at," he said.
"He used the word 'n****r', he used the word 'black b', he used the word 'monkey' at other players of colour as well ... and other words such as 'coon' and the like.
"[Blues centre] Beau Scott said, and even Johns admitted it, but Beau Scott also said that he was told to 'shut the black c... down.'
"Inglis and them are not just the deadliest players on the park, but you don't hear nothing coming out of Andrew Johns' mouth in relation to [Queensland full-back Billy] Slater or Cam Smith or Darren Lockyer about 'shutting the white c...s down'."
Lack of understanding

Bellear said Johns simply does not understand racism or the impact that his comments have on players of colour.
"That's the unfortunate thing, that's why I'm taking a big stand on this, that we really must understand what racism is and the different effects it has on different people and different players," he said.
"If we keep covering up inappropriate sexual behaviour when they're on tour, then that would continue to go on.
"We had to take a very strong stand on sexual assaults ... that was being carried on by players, and sponsors withdrew to highlight it and say 'enough's enough'.
"Sexual assault against women has emotional and physical issues there, [and] this to a lot of Aboriginal people is an emotional thing.
"But in order to arrest racism in rugby league we need to have a zero tolerance policy."
The Newcastle Knights say they will not make any decisions about Johns' coaching role at the club until it has a better understanding of the incident, while Tahu's club Parramatta is also considering Johns' position as a part-time coach.
The incident has polarised opinions in rugby league circles.
Gold Coast centre Preston Campbell said he was proud of Tahu for taking the stand, while outspoken former New South Wales five-eighth Anthony Mundine said Indigenous players should boycott Wednesday's Origin encounter in support of Tahu.
But Maroons hooker Cameron Smith, who said the Queensland camp had not been affected by the incident and that Inglis was moving past it, thought Mundine's calls to action were going too far.
"I think that's probably a bit extreme," he said.
"It comes down to the individual and how they feel.
"Timana obviously felt very strongly which is why he left.
"I think it would hurt the game if all the indigenous boys left and it would hurt the fans."
Blues skipper Kurt Gidley says he is devastated a racist remark has strained the long friendship between Tahu and Johns, while NSW hooker Michael Ennis said the incident will not impact on the team's performance in Origin II in Brisbane on Wednesday night.


First posted June 15, 2010 17:03:00

This Sol Bellear bloke talks a lot of sense imo.
 

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